Thoughts on this trade proposal?

[Backtobanks]

How about a 3-way deal:

 

Cubs trade Jones and Dempster to the Dodgers

Cubs get Torii Hunter from Twins

 

Dodgers trade Penny to the Twins

Dodgers get Jones and Dempster from the Cubs

 

Twins trade Torii Hunter to the Cubs

Twins get Brad Penny from the Dodgers

 

Cubs pick up a great free-agent-to-be for about $4 million (after subtracting Jones and dempster's salaries) for 1 year with Pie set to take over in 2008.

 

Dodgers get solid OF plus a pitcher that still allows them to trade some pitching for any other holes that need to be filled.

 

Twins pick up an excellent pitcher to replace Liriano and rid themselves of an expensive free-agent-to be.

 

The deal might need some tweaking (put on your thinking caps), but these would be the major players involved. What do you think?

[E.J.]

I don't think the Dodgers are getting enough in that scenario. I think they could get more for Penny.

[HoopsCubs]

How about a 3-way deal:

 

Cubs trade Jones and Dempster to the Dodgers

Cubs get Torii Hunter from Twins

 

Dodgers trade Penny to the Twins

Dodgers get Jones and Dempster from the Cubs

 

Twins trade Torii Hunter to the Cubs

Twins get Brad Penny from the Dodgers

 

Cubs pick up a great free-agent-to-be for about $4 million (after subtracting Jones and dempster's salaries) for 1 year with Pie set to take over in 2008.

 

Dodgers get solid OF plus a pitcher that still allows them to trade some pitching for any other holes that need to be filled.

 

Twins pick up an excellent pitcher to replace Liriano and rid themselves of an expensive free-agent-to be.

 

The deal might need some tweaking (put on your thinking caps), but these would be the major players involved. What do you think?

 

I think the Dodgers feel they can get Vernon Wells or Andruw Jones for Penny and a prospect, so I don't believe they'd do the deal you are proposing.

[Post Count Padder]

I think the Dodgers could find a better deal for Penny and I don't know why they'd want Jones since they just signed Gonzalez.

[BigbadB]

The Dodgers have Saito, Broxton and Brazoban for the pen, along with an assortment of other arms. For what Dempster costs, they could just bring back Gagne, which they don't seem interested in doing.

 

If they want 2/3 of the outfield that finished in last place last year, more power to 'em I suppose.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I think the a Cubs acquisition of Hunter means he gets signed long term. I'll take Pie at the league min next season over big money Torii Hunter for years.

 

IMO, if we're going to deal Jones, we need to be snagging some decent prospects and/or starting pitching.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think the a Cubs acquisition of Hunter means he gets signed long term. I'll take Pie at the league min next season over big money Torii Hunter for years.

 

IMO, if we're going to deal Jones, we need to be snagging some decent prospects and/or starting pitching.

 

Wait, don't we already have 6 starters for next year (if Prior is healthy)? We may not have a lot of great SP, but it's not like we can get rid of a lot of it easily either. I'd love to have better starters, but I think we're kind of stuck with the guys we have at this point - or is there something I'm missing?

[RichHillIsABeast]

I think the a Cubs acquisition of Hunter means he gets signed long term. I'll take Pie at the league min next season over big money Torii Hunter for years.

 

IMO, if we're going to deal Jones, we need to be snagging some decent prospects and/or starting pitching.

 

Wait, don't we already have 6 starters for next year (if Prior is healthy)? We may not have a lot of great SP, but it's not like we can get rid of a lot of it easily either. I'd love to have better starters, but I think we're kind of stuck with the guys we have at this point - or is there something I'm missing?

 

Z's extension is not on the front burner. Prior might not make it back this season, or ever. Hill might flame out (I doubt that very much).

 

Lilly won't implode (based on his career numbers). Marquis might. Miller might never get his armstrength back.

 

Our youngsters (Marshall, Mateo, Guzman) who are closest to the bigs don't wow me with their injury histories and poor performances.

 

We have a lot of things that can go wrong with our rotation. I don't think that is likely, but we need to protect ourselves against the worst case scenario. Wasting another year b/c we didn't take more precautions is silly. Wood, Prior, and Miller didn't pan out for us last year. Rusch goes AWOL and gets sick. Our youngsters don't put out immediately and we got the third pick in next years draft.

 

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to trade Jones for something other than starting pitching, but last year's injury fest scared the crap out of me. Never again.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think the a Cubs acquisition of Hunter means he gets signed long term. I'll take Pie at the league min next season over big money Torii Hunter for years.

 

IMO, if we're going to deal Jones, we need to be snagging some decent prospects and/or starting pitching.

 

Wait, don't we already have 6 starters for next year (if Prior is healthy)? We may not have a lot of great SP, but it's not like we can get rid of a lot of it easily either. I'd love to have better starters, but I think we're kind of stuck with the guys we have at this point - or is there something I'm missing?

 

Z's extension is not on the front burner. Prior might not make it back this season, or ever. Hill might flame out (I doubt that very much).

 

Lilly won't implode (based on his career numbers). Marquis might. Miller might never get his armstrength back.

 

Our youngsters (Marshall, Mateo, Guzman) who are closest to the bigs don't wow me with their injury histories and poor performances.

 

We have a lot of things that can go wrong with our rotation. I don't think that is likely, but we need to protect ourselves against the worst case scenario. Wasting another year b/c we didn't take more precautions is silly. Wood, Prior, and Miller didn't pan out for us last year. Rusch goes AWOL and gets sick. Our youngsters don't put out immediately and we got the third pick in next years draft.

 

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to trade Jones for something other than starting pitching, but last year's injury fest scared the crap out of me. Never again.

 

All of that might be true. But we have Z, Lilly, Marquis in the rotation for sure. Hill will almost certainly start the year in the rotation given how he finished the season (I suppose he could be in some big trade, but I haven't heard any such rumblings and haven't seen anything concrete here). Miller and Prior were both hurt, but my understanding is both should be ready to go in ST. If all those guys are ready on Day 1, it's been said in other threads, Miller probably goes to long term relief and the rest are starters. Even if 1 isn't ready, that's still 5 starters.

 

Given that, why trade Jones for a SP when we need a CF and an upgrade at SS (though Hendry may not think we need to upgrade SS)? What's the point of carrying 7 SPs? 6, if one can pitch in middle relief, is one thing, but does anyone want Hill sent down or pitching 2-3 innings every 4-5 days in middle relief b/c we acquired another mediocre SP?

 

I understand the "you can never have too much SP" mantra, but that's only true to a point. And it's not like we don't have some decent prospects who could fill in as needed. Those guys you list may not have pitched shut outs in their big league debuts, but who does? We have a bunch of good young arms who have had some success (to one degree or another) in the minors. Why waste another roster spot with mediocre SP? I'd rather keep Jones than trade him for another #4 starter.

[CubsInNC]

 

Given that, why trade Jones for a SP when we need a CF and an upgrade at SS (though Hendry may not think we need to upgrade SS)? What's the point of carrying 7 SPs? 6, if one can pitch in middle relief, is one thing, but does anyone want Hill sent down or pitching 2-3 innings every 4-5 days in middle relief b/c we acquired another mediocre SP?

 

I understand the "you can never have too much SP" mantra, but that's only true to a point. And it's not like we don't have some decent prospects who could fill in as needed. Those guys you list may not have pitched shut outs in their big league debuts, but who does? We have a bunch of good young arms who have had some success (to one degree or another) in the minors. Why waste another roster spot with mediocre SP? I'd rather keep Jones than trade him for another #4 starter.

 

Jones for a CFer would make the most sense. But would you be opposed to Jones+Hill+(Izturis - dream)+prospects for a CF, SS, & legit #2? Not that I expect that to be probable.

 

Jones+Hill+Izturis+Moore+Veal+Ryu for Santana+Cabrera+Figgins+Aybar

 

Figgins plays CF (and can sub anywhere else in an emergency)

Cabrera at short

Santana the #2 (I think Weaver makes him tradeable)

Aybar the SS in the wings

 

Jones plays left in Anaheim with Garrett Anderson and Juan Rivera at DH, Hill plugs in at the bottom of their rotation this year, and potentially a lot higher. Izturis is their backup plan at short, if wood is unable to play, and Veal and Moore can be spun for the 3B they want, or Moore can play 3rd.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

Given that, why trade Jones for a SP when we need a CF and an upgrade at SS (though Hendry may not think we need to upgrade SS)? What's the point of carrying 7 SPs? 6, if one can pitch in middle relief, is one thing, but does anyone want Hill sent down or pitching 2-3 innings every 4-5 days in middle relief b/c we acquired another mediocre SP?

 

I understand the "you can never have too much SP" mantra, but that's only true to a point. And it's not like we don't have some decent prospects who could fill in as needed. Those guys you list may not have pitched shut outs in their big league debuts, but who does? We have a bunch of good young arms who have had some success (to one degree or another) in the minors. Why waste another roster spot with mediocre SP? I'd rather keep Jones than trade him for another #4 starter.

 

Jones for a CFer would make the most sense. But would you be opposed to Jones+Hill+(Izturis - dream)+prospects for a CF, SS, & legit #2? Not that I expect that to be probable.

 

Jones+Hill+Izturis+Moore+Veal+Ryu for Santana+Cabrera+Figgins+Aybar

 

Figgins plays CF (and can sub anywhere else in an emergency)

Cabrera at short

Santana the #2 (I think Weaver makes him tradeable)

Aybar the SS in the wings

 

Jones plays left in Anaheim with Garrett Anderson and Juan Rivera at DH, Hill plugs in at the bottom of their rotation this year, and potentially a lot higher. Izturis is their backup plan at short, if wood is unable to play, and Veal and Moore can be spun for the 3B they want, or Moore can play 3rd.

 

No, I suppose if we're going to trade Jones and Hill for a legit #2, I guess I'd go for that. I don't know about the deal you proposed (not a fan of Figgins, Cabrera; not as big a fan of Santana as some are). But if JJ & Hill could net us a real #2, ok. I'm just not convinced it could and given that I'm not real hopeful for the results Lilly & Marquis will bring, I'd rather hang onto Hill and just swap Jones, or Jones + prospects, for a better CF.

[daske17]

I seem to remember that Hunter put the Cubs on his list of no-trade teams. This topic came up at the trading deadline last year. Additionally, the Dodgers have a logjam of OF players. I don't think they'd want to add to it.

[CubsInNC]

 

Given that, why trade Jones for a SP when we need a CF and an upgrade at SS (though Hendry may not think we need to upgrade SS)? What's the point of carrying 7 SPs? 6, if one can pitch in middle relief, is one thing, but does anyone want Hill sent down or pitching 2-3 innings every 4-5 days in middle relief b/c we acquired another mediocre SP?

 

I understand the "you can never have too much SP" mantra, but that's only true to a point. And it's not like we don't have some decent prospects who could fill in as needed. Those guys you list may not have pitched shut outs in their big league debuts, but who does? We have a bunch of good young arms who have had some success (to one degree or another) in the minors. Why waste another roster spot with mediocre SP? I'd rather keep Jones than trade him for another #4 starter.

 

Jones for a CFer would make the most sense. But would you be opposed to Jones+Hill+(Izturis - dream)+prospects for a CF, SS, & legit #2? Not that I expect that to be probable.

 

Jones+Hill+Izturis+Moore+Veal+Ryu for Santana+Cabrera+Figgins+Aybar

 

Figgins plays CF (and can sub anywhere else in an emergency)

Cabrera at short

Santana the #2 (I think Weaver makes him tradeable)

Aybar the SS in the wings

 

Jones plays left in Anaheim with Garrett Anderson and Juan Rivera at DH, Hill plugs in at the bottom of their rotation this year, and potentially a lot higher. Izturis is their backup plan at short, if wood is unable to play, and Veal and Moore can be spun for the 3B they want, or Moore can play 3rd.

 

No, I suppose if we're going to trade Jones and Hill for a legit #2, I guess I'd go for that. I don't know about the deal you proposed (not a fan of Figgins, Cabrera; not as big a fan of Santana as some are). But if JJ & Hill could net us a real #2, ok. I'm just not convinced it could and given that I'm not real hopeful for the results Lilly & Marquis will bring, I'd rather hang onto Hill and just swap Jones, or Jones + prospects, for a better CF.

 

I'm not that high on them, in particular. But I assume that if we're dealing with Anaheim, and they're wanting to play Wood and Kendrick this season, they're going to want to get rid of the 2yrs of Orlando Cabrera they have remaining. Chone Figgins I like as a #8 hitter, on this team, and a temporary solution in CF, where he can either be demoted to super-sub next year, or traded for parts/pieces if Pie shows he's ready for CF full time in 08. Aybar would be a pretty highly regarded SS prospect, I believe, if he wasn't in Wood's shadow. Not a sure thing, but, I think, a better bet than our current in-house options for the future. Santana is good, and I think, in the NL he'd translate as a #2.

 

But yes, Jones for a CF would be good, and I'd prefer LH power.

 

What would need to be done to a Jones/Figgins swap to make it palatable for both sides?

[HoopsCubs]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

[St.Paul Cub]

If we dealt Jones and Dempster and got Hunter back, I'd be all for it.

 

LF-Murton, CF-Hunter, RF-Soriano for now. Once Pie comes up, move Hunter to RF, Soriano to 2B and DeRosa to SS/bench.

[CubsInNC]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

I'm not opposed to that entirely, but I'm not convinced Felix is ready just yet.

[St.Paul Cub]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

In a heartbeat.

[CuseCubFan69]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

I'm not opposed to that entirely, but I'm not convinced Felix is ready just yet.

 

I suppose if worse comes to worse the Cubs could throw Ward out in right and shift Soriano to CF then.

[St.Paul Cub]

 

I'm not opposed to that entirely, but I'm not convinced Felix is ready just yet.

 

True, but in a lineup like that all he'd be expected to do is play defense. Or realistically that's all the pressure that should be put on him if we went that route.

[Backtobanks]

The Dodgers have Saito, Broxton and Brazoban for the pen, along with an assortment of other arms. For what Dempster costs, they could just bring back Gagne, which they don't seem interested in doing.

 

If they want 2/3 of the outfield that finished in last place last year, more power to 'em I suppose.

 

They're the ones who went out of their way to sign Pierre to a big contract. They bought our weakest OF, I'm just trying to trade them the one that had the best year in 2006.

[cybercub]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

Not a whole lot different than "Mock Headline #2" IIRC. I don't think Baltimore would want Jones though, they have too many left-handed OF already. It would likely be necessary to get help from a 3rd team (Jones/Mateo to Colorado, Jennings/Marshall/Marmol/Izturis to Baltimore, Tejada to Chicago).

 

I like the idea of Pie in center. Give him a chance. Bat him 7th in the order and hope for the best. If we could find a significant upgrade to Izturis at short, Pie could be hidden without a problem, he could even move up in the order if he produces offensively. I don't doubt Pie could exceed Izturis' .245/.295/.318 line from '06.

 

That said, I would still do whatever possible to aquire Ryan Church or have Baltimore include a LH outfielder (Patterson?) in the deal.

 

It would seem Soriano is going to be our RF for quite a while so...

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Tejada

Ramirez

Murton

Pie

Barrett

 

Theriot

Patterson

Cedeno

Ward

Blanco

 

Thoughts?

[rocket]

Why not just keep Jones in center, who is essentially very similar to Torii?

[baseball7897]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

Not a whole lot different than "Mock Headline #2" IIRC. I don't think Baltimore would want Jones though, they have too many left-handed OF already. It would likely be necessary to get help from a 3rd team (Jones/Mateo to Colorado, Jennings/Marshall/Marmol/Izturis to Baltimore, Tejada to Chicago).

 

I like the idea of Pie in center. Give him a chance. Bat him 7th in the order and hope for the best. If we could find a significant upgrade to Izturis at short, Pie could be hidden without a problem, he could even move up in the order if he produces offensively. I don't doubt Pie could exceed Izturis' .245/.295/.318 line from '06.

 

That said, I would still do whatever possible to aquire Ryan Church or have Baltimore include a LH outfielder (Patterson?) in the deal.

 

It would seem Soriano is going to be our RF for quite a while so...

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Tejada

Ramirez

Murton

Pie

Barrett

 

Theriot

Patterson

Cedeno

Ward

Blanco

 

Thoughts?

 

No chance in hell Patterson comes back to the Cubs.

[E.J.]

How about Jones, Izturis and 2 starters from the group of Marshall, Guzman and Marmol to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. Then, the Cubs can go with Pie in CF and bat him 8th.

 

Lineup:

 

Soriano

Murton/DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Tejada

Barrett

DeRosa/Ward

Pie

 

Not a whole lot different than "Mock Headline #2" IIRC. I don't think Baltimore would want Jones though, they have too many left-handed OF already. It would likely be necessary to get help from a 3rd team (Jones/Mateo to Colorado, Jennings/Marshall/Marmol/Izturis to Baltimore, Tejada to Chicago).

 

I like the idea of Pie in center. Give him a chance. Bat him 7th in the order and hope for the best. If we could find a significant upgrade to Izturis at short, Pie could be hidden without a problem, he could even move up in the order if he produces offensively. I don't doubt Pie could exceed Izturis' .245/.295/.318 line from '06.

 

That said, I would still do whatever possible to aquire Ryan Church or have Baltimore include a LH outfielder (Patterson?) in the deal.

 

It would seem Soriano is going to be our RF for quite a while so...

 

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Tejada

Ramirez

Murton

Pie

Barrett

 

Theriot

Patterson

Cedeno

Ward

Blanco

 

Thoughts?

 

No chance in hell Patterson comes back to the Cubs.

 

True. We've already had our yearly Orioles/Cubs trade this year. :lol: