Dodgers sign Schmidt (EDIT: Or they might not have)

[sonicdethmonkey0]

bummer. do the cubs throw a bunch of money at zito or sign two mediocre pitchers? my money's on mediocrity.

[YearofDaCubs]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

[nilodnayr]

Sign me up for getting Penny.

 

I was about to say "cue the Penny for Jones" threads.

 

I still say that Manny ends up in LA, with Penny and a couple of others in Boston.

 

Makes perfect sense, the original rumor was a package around Penny (and top prospects) for Manny...Jones also plays the OF, so they must be interested in him for Penny as well. This is the Duke thread all over again.

 

Rumor is that Louis Gonzalez is going to sign with the Dodgers. Penny + Gonzo > Jones

[goonys evil twin]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

 

If Lilly is "worth" $10-11m, Schmidt is worth more than $15m.

[inari]

bummer. do the cubs throw a bunch of money at zito or sign two mediocre pitchers? my money's on mediocrity.

 

I'm guessing we'll have both Meche and Lilly in the fold by day's end.

[neely crenshaw]

lilly is not estes..he throws much, much harder and has a nasty curve. estes is a puff baller with a looper.

this seriously hurts. i hope they have a serious plan b in place. this loss could derail what looked like a great offseason. get to it jim, the clock is ticking...

also we had better move on lilly and meche because if zito goes...the price tag likely goes up.

i'd take jones for penny. we need a stud pitcher. i like lilly,jennings and meche as secondary pick ups but they unless we get all 3, we need the impact that schmidt would have brought.

and why would lofton be out if we traded jones for penny? certainly we still need him, and certianly he would cost less than jones..

[CubinNY]

If the 4/60 rumors re: the Cubs were true, he must have really wanted to stay west of the rockies.

 

Does Lilly remind anyone else of Estes?

Funny that's exactly what my friend said about Lilly but I think Lilly is better than that.

 

It's not even close. The most they have in common is that their left-handed.

 

Do you bother to look stuff up?

Career Averages
Lilly     Estes
184     203       IP
99        90       ERA+
4.6      4.7       ERA
75      104       BB
157    148       SO
1.3      1.5      WHIP

 

Pretty close, but Lilly looks marginally better.

Edited December 6, 2006 by CubinNY

[soapy]

bummer. do the cubs throw a bunch of money at zito or sign two mediocre pitchers? my money's on mediocrity.

 

I'm guessing we'll have both Meche and Lilly in the fold by day's end.

In that case, I'm guessing I'll be drunk by day's end.

 

:pukel:

[YearofDaCubs]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

 

If Lilly is "worth" $10-11m, Schmidt is worth more than $15m.

And that's why I feel we should focus on signing Zito over Lilly and Meche.

[Soul]

bummer. do the cubs throw a bunch of money at zito or sign two mediocre pitchers? my money's on mediocrity.

 

The really sad thing is, mediocrity would be a massive improvement over last year.

 

Schmidt's contract reveals everything. He got the 3/44 offer from the Cubs, then used it to get a bit more from LA. He was always going to stay on the West Coast, he just used Jimbo.

 

Oh well, the price kept him away from St. Louis so that's not too bad.

[Danny82]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

He's much closer to being worth 15+M than Zito is.

 

Zito is going to be one of, if not THE biggest signing this year that a team is going to regret down the road.

[soccer10k]

At least theres no way in hell we can we as bad as last year...

 

This is the Cubs. Anything is possible.

[soccer10k]

I hate the Dodgers.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

More outfielders for the Dodgers? Colletti is legally stupid if he signs Gonzalez.

[ThePenguin11]

If the 4/60 rumors re: the Cubs were true, he must have really wanted to stay west of the rockies.

 

Does Lilly remind anyone else of Estes?

Funny that's exactly what my friend said about Lilly but I think Lilly is better than that.

 

It's not even close. The most they have in common is that their left-handed.

 

As stupid as it sounds, Zito and Estes (early in Estes' career) have way more in common that Lilly ever has with Estes. Both of the former were guys who depended on huge curveballs with good but not great fastballs. Estes not only lost velocity, but his curveball became very inconsistent. Sometimes it was flat and sometimes it was big - but not over the plate. Zito has lost velocity and snap on his curve but hasn't experienced any loss of control so he should be fine. But Lilly, he's not really comparable as far as I could tell. I watched him alot last year (fantasy team) and never thought of Estes.

[Lefty]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

 

If Lilly is "worth" $10-11m, Schmidt is worth more than $15m.

 

This just puts it into perspective. Do you really want to commit 10% of your payroll to Ted Lilly? We all know that Hendry is clueless when it comes to resource utilization. But has he no confidence in his organization that he will pay $10 million for maybe an extra win or two? I.e., if you do not think you can cobble out 180 innings with a less than 5 ERA from some combination of Marshall, Guzman or Mateo, you will never be able to compete. The Cubs are beginning to remind me of the Mo Vaughn Mets.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Lefty

[nilodnayr]

If the 4/60 rumors re: the Cubs were true, he must have really wanted to stay west of the rockies.

 

Does Lilly remind anyone else of Estes?

Funny that's exactly what my friend said about Lilly but I think Lilly is better than that.

 

It's not even close. The most they have in common is that their left-handed.

 

Do you bother to look stuff up?

Career Averages
Lilly     Estes
184     203       IP
99        90       ERA+
4.6      4.7       ERA
75      104       BB
157    148       SO
1.3      1.5      WHIP

 

Pretty close, but Lilly looks marginally better.

 

Only because he had two fluke years in 02 and 04 where his BABIP was 70 and 40 points (respectively) lower than what it should have been. If you were to normalize for Lilly's luck I bet their ERA+ and WHIP would be a lot closer. Note:I didn't look to see if Estes has been lucky or not.

[YearofDaCubs]

We may as well go after Zito over Schmidt then. Schmidt is getting over 15mil, offer Zito the same for 6 years.

 

Please no. Zito is not going to be worth nearly what he will end up getting paid.

Do you think Schmidt is worth over 15mil? I personally don't think so especially considering he already has lost velocity and has age concerns.

He's much closer to being worth 15+M than Zito is.

 

Zito is going to be one of, if not THE biggest signing this year that a team is going to regret down the road.

That's your opinion.

[Danny82]

Of course it is. Was I representing it to be anything other than my opinion?

[Flames24Rulz]

So Hendry's going to overpay for a couple of mediocre starters, yet he can't overpay for a good starter.

 

Glad to see the Jim Hendry we all know and love is back :x

[C.C.]

So Hendry's going to overpay for a couple of mediocre starters, yet he can't overpay for a good starter.

 

Glad to see the Jim Hendry we all know and love is back :x

 

Can't force a player to come here if he dones't want to. What do you expect Hendry to do hold Schimdt at gun point?

[Southpaw191679666239]

So Hendry's going to overpay for a couple of mediocre starters, yet he can't overpay for a good starter.

 

Glad to see the Jim Hendry we all know and love is back :x

 

Unless you're referring to Zito, you can't make that statement, knowing that Schmidt wanted to stay on the West Coast.

[Flames24Rulz]

So Hendry's going to overpay for a couple of mediocre starters, yet he can't overpay for a good starter.

 

Glad to see the Jim Hendry we all know and love is back :x

 

Unless you're referring to Zito, you can't make that statement, knowing that Schmidt wanted to stay on the West Coast.

 

We weren't even mentioned in the 3 finalists for Schmidt. The Cardinals were. Last I checked, they weren't on the west coast.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

So Hendry's going to overpay for a couple of mediocre starters, yet he can't overpay for a good starter.

 

Glad to see the Jim Hendry we all know and love is back :x

 

Unless you're referring to Zito, you can't make that statement, knowing that Schmidt wanted to stay on the West Coast.

 

We weren't even mentioned in the 3 finalists for Schmidt. The Cardinals were. Last I checked, they weren't on the west coast.

 

Exactly.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Losing out on Schmidt sucks, but if the Cubs managed to land Meche and Lilly for a combined $18 million, I suppose it wouldn't be that bad in comparison. Compared to the $16 million for Schmidt, at least one of LillyMeche has got to be pretty good transitioning from the AL to the NL, right ? (Tell me I'm not wishfully thinking.) That's overpaying for sure, but that much has already been established -- no matter who they get, they will pay through the nose.

 

Oh well, I'll hold off on the Hendry bashing for now. We do know that Schmidt wanted to stay on the west coast, and for all we know, Chicago was never seriously an option for him. I can also see why he might have considered Dave Duncan and the Cardinals despite his stated desire.

 

At least he is not a Cardinal, he would have probably owned the Cubs' line-up the 4-5 times a year he got to face them.

Edited December 6, 2006 by ToupeeOnFire