Cubs Pursuing Lilly

[Flames24Rulz]

Why is the majority of everyone so high on Ted Lilly?

 

He's better than Gil Meche.

 

Ted Lilly is not a good pitcher. And how is he a better option than Gil Meche?

 

They both are middle of the road pitchers; maybe even slightly below average. But look at the stats. Lilly is a bit better than Meche. I know you want Meche because of the "promise" he has, but the guy isn't getting any younger.

 

Like I said in my last post, I'd easily rather have Padilla over either of these two.

[nilodnayr]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

I think its a perfectly reasonable request...if only anybody was listening.

[Flames24Rulz]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

[USSoccer]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

 

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

[Sarcastic]

from Cubs.com:

 

Larry O'Brien, Lilly's agent, told MLB.com on Friday that Cubs general manager Jim Hendry had made an offer but that the two sides were not expected to finalize anything until they meet again in Orlando for the Winter Meetings next week. O'Brien said the Toronto Blue Jays, New York Yankees, Baltimore Orioles, Texas Rangers and San Francisco Giants were also interested in Lilly.

 

"We're beyond just preliminary discussions," O'Brien said of his conversations with the Cubs. "We've had an offer and we're considering coming back with maybe another counteroffer. I would say that I'm planning on meeting with Jim Hendry down in Orlando next week, but we're also going to be meeting with J.P. Ricciardi with Toronto and a few other clubs."

 

And ESPN corroborates the story: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2683127

Edited December 2, 2006 by Sarcastic

[jjgman21]

 

is humongous, and we won't contend with the latter without significantly improving our offense (no, not Lgo for CF... POWER BAT)

 

You're right.

 

Z

Lilly

Hill

Westbrook

Miller

 

won't contend in the NL central at all next year, with.

 

Soriano

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Barret

Derosa

Izturis

 

:roll:

 

You can roll your eyes all you want. But that team is maybe a .500 team. If everything breaks right they could contend for the division. But with a top 5 payroll I expect more.

 

My guess is slightly above 500 with everyone healthy, 84 wins or so. Schmidt over Westbrook/Jennings would probably add another 5. You can't get into the playoffs with 83 wins every year.

 

that team is far better than 4 of the 8 teams that made the playoffs last year. I want better, but Hendry has to get us into that position at the very least.

 

obviously in a different year the offseason would be more fruitful for the Cubs with the simultaneous bump in payroll, but this isn't every year. dollars are flowing and the list of impact players are limited, hence fewer players can be acquired and the quality not so great. you can speculate as to what trades were possible and which weren't, but the bottom line is noone knows if any trades were possible or not, so I see no point in arquing like imaginary trades were possible (not that you were).

 

another thing to keep in mind is no team plays the entire year with 25 guys. few teams roll into the playoffs with the same roster they started the year with. injuries will happen as will poor performance. hopefully, so will nice surprises from unexpected sources. hopefully the weeknesses show themselves early and are addressed quickly.

 

I bring these things up because I see no point is setting about building a 'world series roster' in December. build a playoff roster in December, have a World Series roster on Sept. 1. in the Central, the addition of Lilly makes the Cubs the clearcut division favorite, pending the decisions of Pettitte and Clemens.

[jjgman21]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

 

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

 

drown those blues USS. drown those blues.

[Outshined_One]

Part of the upside of shoring up the rotation would be giving the Cubs some flexibility when it comes to their young starting pitching. Guys like Marshall and Marmol could make attractive pieces in a deal for a SS or CF.

[USSoccer]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

 

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

 

drown those blues USS. drown those blues.

 

i can still make a choherent agrgument.

 

Padiliia is a power pitcher, with less of an injruy history,. Lilly has been on and off the DL durnig his career.

 

i'd erather thrown money at padilla than lillly.

 

if coruse, if prior is acvtually alive, he's better tnan all of them.

[nilodnayr]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

 

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

 

its brioooked!

[jjgman21]

I'd rather have Padilla than either Lilly or Meche. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Not if you're willing to pay 9 to 10 million per year.

 

Padilla for 9 to 10 million a year or Lilly/Meche for say 8 million? I'll take my chances with Padilla.

 

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

 

drown those blues USS. drown those blues.

 

i can still make a choherent agrgument.

 

Padiliia is a power pitcher, with less of an injruy history,. Lilly has been on and off the DL durnig his career.

 

i'd erather thrown money at padilla than lillly.

 

if coruse, if prior is acvtually alive, he's better tnan all of them.

 

I've been advocating for Padilla since about August and was in no way disparaging your point as a drunken rant.

 

just empathizing man.

[MPrior]

padilla is foing to be hthe best pictehetr signed this winter. brioook it.

 

drown those blues USS. drown those blues.

 

i can still make a choherent agrgument.

 

Padiliia is a power pitcher, with less of an injruy history,. Lilly has been on and off the DL durnig his career.

 

i'd erather thrown money at padilla than lillly.

 

if coruse, if prior is acvtually alive, he's better tnan all of them.

 

awesome.

[USSoccer]

alli s saying is that padillai s a better option for FA than lilly or meche or anuone elsde.

[MPrior]

alli s saying is that padillai s a better option for FA than lilly or meche or anuone elsde.

 

Agreed. The only possible sticking point is cost - but a small difference is definitely worth it, I think.

[nilodnayr]

alli s saying is that padillai s a better option for FA than lilly or meche or anuone elsde.

 

even schmidt?

[Rob]

Looking at price and production.

 

 

Schmidt >>>>> Padilla >> Lilly >> Marquis >> Suppan >> Batista >> Meche

 

Marquis slides up the curve because of price, while Suppan slides down it for the same reason. Aside from that, it's pretty much a straight valuation of production.

 

That's how I see it at least.

 

My "you better not even mess with those guys for that money, just play the young guys" line falls somewhere in the Lilly/Marquis area of the map. Some days I have no problems with Lilly for 8-9 mil, others I do.

 

I will always have a problem with us signing Lilly to this contract so early if it precludes us from signing Schmidt, however. There is absolutely no reason to sign a 4th starter to a deal that keeps us from getting a top-tier guy. None.

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

[USSoccer]

alli s saying is that padillai s a better option for FA than lilly or meche or anuone elsde.

 

even schmidt?

 

padilla is younger, likely chealper and with less of an injury history.

[Flames24Rulz]

Looking at price and production.

 

 

Schmidt >>>>> Padilla >> Lilly >> Marquis >> Suppan >> Batista >> Meche

 

Marquis slides up the curve because of price, while Suppan slides down it for the same reason. Aside from that, it's pretty much a straight valuation of production.

 

That's how I see it at least.

 

My "you better not even mess with those guys for that money, just play the young guys" line falls somewhere in the Lilly/Marquis area of the map. Some days I have no problems with Lilly for 8-9 mil, others I do.

 

I will always have a problem with us signing Lilly to this contract so early if it precludes us from signing Schmidt, however. There is absolutely no reason to sign a 4th starter to a deal that keeps us from getting a top-tier guy. None.

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

While Marquis is cheap, there is no way in hell that I would want him near my team. I'd rank Suppan, Batista, and Meche all above him.

 

Other than that though, your list is good.

[jjgman21]

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

the problem with that is it ignores market conditions. you wait to sign someone until January this offseason, you end up with Mark Redman.

Edited December 2, 2006 by jjgman21

[nilodnayr]

Looking at price and production.

 

 

Schmidt >>>>> Padilla >> Lilly >> Marquis >> Suppan >> Batista >> Meche

 

Marquis slides up the curve because of price, while Suppan slides down it for the same reason. Aside from that, it's pretty much a straight valuation of production.

 

That's how I see it at least.

 

My "you better not even mess with those guys for that money, just play the young guys" line falls somewhere in the Lilly/Marquis area of the map. Some days I have no problems with Lilly for 8-9 mil, others I do.

 

I will always have a problem with us signing Lilly to this contract so early if it precludes us from signing Schmidt, however. There is absolutely no reason to sign a 4th starter to a deal that keeps us from getting a top-tier guy. None.

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

I definitely agree with both ends of the spectrum, but tend to think the middle can change based on assumptions. Right after the offseason everyone thought that Suppan would be way overpaid because of his success in the playoffs. Well now it looks like everyone has caught up to him and will be overpaid as well. Also, it depends on your risk adversion. Suppan has a lot less variance than someone like Lilly or Marquis. And we really have no clue what marquis will sign for. But for the most part, I agree with what you have.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

This site needs a breathalyzer.

[jjgman21]

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

the problem with that is it ignores market conditions. you wait to sign someone until January this offseason, you end up with Mark Redman.

 

the reason for my edit in the above post is I first used Tomo Ohka. anyone know the extent of his injury last year, and if fully recovered why isn't he ahead of guys like Meche? he's actually been league average or above for several years.

[nilodnayr]

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

the problem with that is it ignores market conditions. you wait to sign someone until January this offseason, you end up with Mark Redman.

 

He will probably a great consolation prize for someone and a very judicious use of their money. I really like Ohka, especially for the amount some one is going to have to pay him and the length of the contract. Probably not for a team like the cubs, but I think he'll be a good signing.

[jjgman21]

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

the problem with that is it ignores market conditions. you wait to sign someone until January this offseason, you end up with Mark Redman.

 

He will probably a great consolation prize for someone and a very judicious use of their money. I really like Ohka, especially for the amount some one is going to have to pay him and the length of the contract. Probably not for a team like the cubs, but I think he'll be a good signing.

 

see edit and second post.

[nilodnayr]

 

Lilly is the kind of guy you sign in late January, once the big names have all packed their suitcases. Not in December.

 

the problem with that is it ignores market conditions. you wait to sign someone until January this offseason, you end up with Mark Redman.

 

He will probably a great consolation prize for someone and a very judicious use of their money. I really like Ohka, especially for the amount some one is going to have to pay him and the length of the contract. Probably not for a team like the cubs, but I think he'll be a good signing.

 

see edit and second post.

 

I now have no comment :)