Cubs sign Soriano

[craig]

I'm enthused about the Soriano signing. Although it's less exotic with Hendry and Piniella talking RF rather than center. Still, an extra 40 HR's at leadoff is an extra 40 HR's, and HR's are an efficient way to score.

 

I haven't read the 140 pages on this, maybe only a dozen or so. But it seems the board is mostly negative about the move, and n large part based on money and length. I wonder whether the deal isn't as bad as it appears? I'm guessing there are some options or contingencies involved in the 7th and 8th years. For example, if it's $96/6 with two $20 option years, each with $2 buyout options, that could be agentized as $136/8, but really is more like $96/6. Would that seem high and long? Sure. But that's the way it goes when you want the most coveted FA, even if it's a weak year.

 

I think Soriano is a valuable player. The Cubs lacked HR power last year. Soriano will upgrade in OF, Lee could upgrade 1B, and DeRosa could upgrade the 2B HR output.

 

Soriano's OBP was quite a bit higher than Pierre's this year, and relatively high relative to leadoff men. If (big if) he can sustain that kind of OBP, I think he'll be pretty interesting.

 

If it ends up that the deal is basically $96/6 plus options, I'll consider that a pretty good deal relative to the market. And be pretty pleased that Hendry did it fast. The fast action simplifies his landscape. he knows what to focus on now. And, it jazzes up the public perception. Ten days ago, Schmidt for example might look at Cubs and say "Hmm, 27th place team, not my first choice." Now, if you talk to Schmidt about the Cubs, his impression is probably very different and he might be much more excited about signing here.

 

Fast action also gives Hendry time to focus on his other situations. Do we have a shot at schmidt, or not? Are they in on Igawa, or not? What kind of interest can he find for Jacque?

 

He's had plenty of different ways to fill out his roster. Having gotten ARam back, locking up Soriano, and going with DeRosa (like it or not), he can focus back on who he'll get for CF, wat he can trade Jacque and prospects for, and who will fill the two rotation spots. Still plenty of ways to go. But I suspect lots easier knowing what's up with Aram, Soriano, and DeRosa.

[Andy]

Did anyone post the Buster Olney article on here yet? Not a big fan of this signing either...

 

Here is the Cubs part of the article:

 

The Cubs have now committed about $224 million to three players in the last eight days (Soriano, Aramis Ramirez, Mark DeRosa), and I don't know if they're any closer to winning a World Series than they were before they broke out the Tribune Company credit card. There are going to be days when the wind is blowing out at Wrigley Field and Lou Piniella and his guys are going to pick on some No. 4 or No. 5 lefty starter having a bad day, and they will hammer six or seven homers and everybody can happily hoist a few beers and toast the Cubbies.

 

But if they're going to be serious contenders, the Cubs still need pitching -- solid, frontline starting pitching, to slot in behind Carlos Zambrano. They've got Rich Hill and Sean Marshall, and maybe Mark Prior, and perhaps a couple of those guys will work out. The team finished 27th in starters' ERA last season, and so far they've done nothing to change the makeup of the rotation.

 

If you're a Cubs' fan, you're probably thrilled the team has finally unleashed its extraordinary financial power. But we might as well start counting down the days to when the team starts thinking about shedding Aramis Ramirez and/or Soriano. Neither is a flawless player -- Ramirez's effort has been erratic, he is not a great third baseman and he is coming off a season in which he had a .352 on-base percentage, which is good if you're making $5 million a year, rather than the $15 million Ramirez is being paid.

 

Similarly, Soriano has big holes, as a guy who swings and misses a whole lot (160 strikeouts last season), and he is hardly an on-base machine -- his career-high .351 OBP ranked 91st last year in the big leagues. If you spend $224 million, you'd want to make sure that you get one of the top four or five offensive players in the game, an elite hitting force, and the Cubs did not do that -- not even close.

 

When Manny Ramirez began his eight-year contract with the Red Sox, he was 28 years old. A-Rod was 25 years old when he signed his 10-year deal with Texas. Derek Jeter was 26. Soriano will turn 31 years old on Jan. 7. The Cubs locked him up for the seasons in which he'll be 37 and 38 years old, at $17 million per. Wow.

 

If the Cubs were so willing to overspend on a couple of guys in the name of pursuing a championship, why didn't they overpay to land Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt and Jeff Suppan?

 

The Cubs will now have a very right-handed lineup (the only veteran lefty hitter in this lineup is Jacque Jones) and they've got a lot of hitters who may struggle against frontline starters like Chris Carpenter and Roy Oswalt, and their outfield defense promises to be subpar, at best. Within this piece, Toni Ginnetti writes that the Cubs are also pursuing left fielder Cliff Floyd and pitcher Gil Meche. That means the Cubs outfield would be Floyd, Soriano and Jones.

 

The Cubs will be a very strange team, indeed.

 

Sorry if it was posted already

That's ridiculous. First of all, he doesn't address the fact that it's likely the Cubs won't have to start 13-15 different pitchers again in 2007. He also doesn't mention Cotts' possibly starting. There is almost no way at all that the Cubs pitching doesn't improve significantly as it is right now in 2007.

 

We should get more pitching, but Olney assumes it'll be a train wreck again, which it wouldn't even if we stood pat.

[brinoch]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

[VanceJergins]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

 

You're kidding I hope because that would be a pretty nasty deal then.

[VanceJergins]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

 

You're kidding I hope because that would be a pretty nasty deal then.

 

Thats the vibe I'm getting. I've seen no mention of options years in the latest articles. I saw Mr. Miles roaming a few minutes ago, maybe he can shed some light.

[Jazz]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

 

You're kidding I hope because that would be a pretty nasty deal then.

 

Thats the vibe I'm getting. I've seen no mention of options years in the latest articles. I saw Mr. Miles roaming a few minutes ago, maybe he can shed some light.

 

I don't think anyone right now really knows. Kaplan was talking about option years though on the radio when the deal was announced, and so were a few other voices, so its not like we are the only people speculating that here.

 

What it could be though is that those 3 are vesting years based on plate appearances.

[jmajew]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

 

You're kidding I hope because that would be a pretty nasty deal then.

 

Thats the vibe I'm getting. I've seen no mention of options years in the latest articles. I saw Mr. Miles roaming a few minutes ago, maybe he can shed some light.

 

I don't think anyone right now really knows. Kaplan was talking about option years though on the radio when the deal was announced, and so were a few other voices, so its not like we are the only people speculating that here.

 

What it could be though is that those 3 are vesting years based on plate appearances.

 

I'm praying the last 3 are option years.

[VanceJergins]

I'm curious as to the details of the contract, but I'd rather have signed Drew and Lee, personally.

 

Its starting to look like its 8 years, no options. I'm lazy and dont want to post links, but there are articles on cubs.com and rotoworld.

 

You're kidding I hope because that would be a pretty nasty deal then.

 

Thats the vibe I'm getting. I've seen no mention of options years in the latest articles. I saw Mr. Miles roaming a few minutes ago, maybe he can shed some light.

 

I don't think anyone right now really knows. Kaplan was talking about option years though on the radio when the deal was announced, and so were a few other voices, so its not like we are the only people speculating that here.

 

What it could be though is that those 3 are vesting years based on plate appearances.

 

From a Cubs.com article : http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061120&content_id=1743683&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

"When the deal is completed, Soriano will be 38. Hendry wasn't worried that the outfielder would wear down.

 

'Those of us who know him and have watched him play, he's got a great body and takes tremendous care of himself," Hendry said. "Look at how our game has changed. There are a lot of guys 40 years old who are still playing. He's lean -- he's like a greyhound. He's some kind of athlete. That's a very young body for his age. Who knows if he'll be as productive at 38 as he is at 31?'"

 

BRUUUUUUUUCE!!!!!

[Mephistopheles]

How is he overrated?

 

Please no stats involved.

 

Right on, man!

 

All this twaddle about "stats" is just one more attempt by our oppressively monolithic Western culture to subvert your deep-seated natural instincts and to denigrate the rightful primacy of your sociocultural background and condition by subjugating you with it's fascistic "ideas" and "facts." This cult of heartless, dreamkilling fascists plots to rip us out of the rich cultural tapestry into which we were born, and to rend us from the abiding connection to our cultural roots which is the source of all truly abiding nourishment and sustenance. Thousands of endangered sac bunts die every day, and what do we do?

 

But you can see through this--you and perhaps you alone can see through their imperalistic claims of "objective truth" and obsession with illusory "facts." You and perhaps you alone can see that they wish to tear you from your natural impulses-- the exhilaration of exciting plays unmediated by reflection. You and St. Morgan may be our last hope-- to protect the sanctity of pristine baseball-in-the-moment experience and anecdotes-around-the-fire from the fetid conspiracy of these boot-licking statistics lovers!

 

Down with the fascism of facts!

 

 

 

 

 

Or not.

 

Best post I've read all day!

 

this needs to be talked about some more

[da bears]

Once again, Buster Olney is just spewing out crap right now. He has to be assuming the Cubs are done. I'd take more stock in what he was writing if it was after the Cubs made all their moves.

[VanceJergins]

Just a quick thought about the Cubs future salary:

 

If the Cubs keep Murton around, and one of Pie/Patterson becomes a solid major leaguer, and a couple of Veal/Gallagher/rookies from this past year become solid major leaguers; I think we'll be fine financially even with Soriano's contract. As long as we can plug a few holes with guys from our system, I dont think Soriano will cripple us at all.

[RationalSoxFan]

I really don't know how people can be so excited. Getting Lugo/Durham and trading for Manny would have been better, and possible. Oh well, congratulations guys, I just wish I could turn on the radio without hearing Bruce Levine pee himself with glee.

[Roast]

I really don't know how people can be so excited. Getting Lugo/Durham and trading for Manny would have been better, and possible. Oh well, congratulations guys, I just wish I could turn on the radio without hearing Bruce Levine pee himself with glee.

 

Not if you plan on sending Durham/Lugo to Boston in that deal. There is a rule against sign and trade deals.

[jmajew]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

Edited November 21, 2006 by jmajew

[Guest]

buster is also wrong. you are better off getting many very good hitters than one great hitter.

[WrigleyField 22]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

In that case, lets get this boy on some HGH.

[UMFan83]

Anyone think that its possible that Hendry, being desperate to make a splash, signed this contract with Soriano with the intention of trading him in like 4 years (while eating some salary) if he slowly begins to decline?

 

Think about it...I'm not sure how the salary breaks down, so for now I'll assume a flat $17 mil a year

 

2007: $17

2008: $17

2009: $17

2010: $17

 

Traded to X team, agree to eat $8 million a year in salary, get a slightly above average OF

 

2011: $8 ($9 - Picked up by Team X)

2012: $8 ($9)

2013: $8 ($9)

2014: $8 ($9)

 

That breaks it down to 4 years, $100 million, with $32 million deferred.

 

A very very very ridiculous contract, but in order to make a splash and try to win a World Series, what do you think....reasonable?

[Roast]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

In that case, lets get this boy on some HGH.

 

WOO UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

[ConstableRabbit]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

In that case, lets get this boy on some HGH.

 

WOO UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

 

Beat me to it.

[Laura]

 

If it ends up that the deal is basically $96/6 plus options, I'll consider that a pretty good deal relative to the market. And be pretty pleased that Hendry did it fast. The fast action simplifies his landscape. he knows what to focus on now. And, it jazzes up the public perception. Ten days ago, Schmidt for example might look at Cubs and say "Hmm, 27th place team, not my first choice." Now, if you talk to Schmidt about the Cubs, his impression is probably very different and he might be much more excited about signing here.

 

Fast action also gives Hendry time to focus on his other situations. Do we have a shot at schmidt, or not? Are they in on Igawa, or not? What kind of interest can he find for Jacque?

 

When Levine was on ESPN radio last night, there was some talk about how surprising it was that Soriano signed so quickly (I know, big contract). He said that Lou has been very active in recruiting free agents and that -- as you mention above -- they wanted to sign Soriano early to build credibility for future FA and trade targets.

[UMFan83]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

Hmm...Sosa was 30 in 1998, Soriano 30 now. Both had high K rates and low BB rates until their power numbers increased and teams started pitching around them. Very interesting case study.

[WrigleyField 22]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

In that case, lets get this boy on some HGH.

 

WOO UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

 

sarcasm... mostlty at least

[jmajew]

I was just thinking and Soriano right now reminds me a lot of Sosa prior to 1998. Look at the stats they were very similar players.

 

I'm gonna find career averages for the both of them and post when i find them...for sosa prior to 1998.

 

In that case, lets get this boy on some HGH.

 

WOO UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

 

I can't find the actual career stats for Sosa prior to 1998 but go look for yourselves. Both players had their breakout years at the age of 30. Both were raw speed and power type players earlier in their careers. Both in their first big years began to walk a bit more. Soriano 67 walks and 16 IBB and Sosa 78 BB and 14 IBB.

[Careless]

Anyone think that its possible that Hendry, being desperate to make a splash, signed this contract with Soriano with the intention of trading him in like 4 years (while eating some salary) if he slowly begins to decline?

 

Think about it...I'm not sure how the salary breaks down, so for now I'll assume a flat $17 mil a year

 

2007: $17

2008: $17

2009: $17

2010: $17

 

Traded to X team, agree to eat $8 million a year in salary, get a slightly above average OF

 

2011: $8 ($9 - Picked up by Team X)

2012: $8 ($9)

2013: $8 ($9)

2014: $8 ($9)

 

That breaks it down to 4 years, $100 million, with $32 million deferred.

 

A very very very ridiculous contract, but in order to make a splash and try to win a World Series, what do you think....reasonable?

Arod money for Soriano? I don't think that's reasonable. I hope that Hendry doesn't think that's reasonable.