Rockies put Jason Jennings on the market...

[fromthestretch]

There are two circumstances than lead to Pie being included.

 

1. The Rockies are looking for a CF. If they trade Jennings, they will be looking to fill that need.

 

2. If Drew or Soriano is signed to play CF, then Pie is blocked for the next few years. He could be moved to RF when Jones departs, but his value is as a CF.

 

If a CF were in the fold that effectively blocks Pie, I'd look to move him. If we sign a stop gap CF like Roberts or Lofton, then Pie's value is higher.

 

I'm not so sure Drew would actually be blocking Pie though. Drew could easily be moved to RF to allow Pie to play CF, if Jones is moved.

[BigbadB]

Jacque Jones can play CF. I'd do that deal straight up today.

[Hosak8]

No way is Jennings worth trading Pie for...

 

I'd give them Marshall and Moore.

 

So, a proven commodity (though it is only a solid and unspectacular commodity) in an area of great need is not worth as much as a prospect who is far from "can't miss" and won't be helpful for a couple of years even if he doesn't miss?

 

Seriously?

 

This reminds me alot of people who wouldn't trade Guzman, Kelton, Bobby Hill, or Choi several years ago. Until the Cubs produce a position player with a clue at the Major League level, I am all for dealing a "prospect" for a Major Leaguer who is a position of need.

 

 

I think Pie could be helpful THIS year. Certainly by next year...

 

Pie rates well about what Kelton or Hill ever did. He's produced at a much higher level than either of them did...and at a much younger age.

 

The jury's still out on Guzman. I do think he's going to be successful. It's not fair to put pitchers in the same category as position players though. Pitchers are much more likely to get injurred.

 

No, Jennings is not worth Pie. Heck, I think Marshall in two years will be as good as Jennings. But maybe that's just me.

 

I'm sorry, I just whole-heartedly disagree. Jason Jennings is a pitcher entering his prime who just posted a respectable WHIP (1.37) and ERS (3.78) while pitching half his games at Coors. Pie is a prospect who posted a decent OPS in AAA, with a little power (15 HR) and a little speed (though his 17/11 SB/CS ratio is very bad. Heck, people are butchering Soriano for his 41/17 ratio). Jennings is a possible 15 game winner for us over the next couple of years. Pie is a guy who might sniff the bigs this season, and won't likely offer any valuable help until 2008. A solid SP who might win 15+ games for us in 2007 or a AAA CF who still has miles to go before becoming the leadoff hitter we desperately need him to be?

 

Sorry, but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[USSoccer]

 

I'm sorry, I just whole-heartedly disagree. Jason Jennings is a pitcher entering his prime who just posted a respectable WHIP (1.37) and ERS (3.78) while pitching half his games at Coors. Pie is a prospect who posted a decent OPS in AAA, with a little power (15 HR) and a little speed (though his 17/11 SB/CS ratio is very bad. Heck, people are butchering Soriano for his 41/17 ratio). Jennings is a possible 15 game winner for us over the next couple of years. Pie is a guy who might sniff the bigs this season, and won't likely offer any valuable help until 2008. A solid SP who might win 15+ games for us in 2007 or a AAA CF who still has miles to go before becoming the leadoff hitter we desperately need him to be?

 

Sorry, but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

Coors played as a pitcher's park in 2006. Also, Pie isn't a leadoff hitter. He's a run producer.

 

I'm not sure Jennings is worth our best trading chip.

[TheDude]

Fans are very slow in coming around to accept the market for pitchers under the age of 30 that produce league average numbers. These guys have great value to an organization and will command good returns on the market.

 

Teams recognize they can win in both the regular season and post-season with one true ace, one good starter, and 3 servicable average starters. And that could add up to over 60 million if the staff is mostly veterans.

 

Once they hit FA, these guys are making 7-10 million a year, and the number is going up, because the 7 million benchmark is now two years old. So if you can get a league average starter that has a history of durability for 5 million a year, it's a bargain. A bargain worth a top prospect for most organizations.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

No way is Jennings worth trading Pie for...

 

I'd give them Marshall and Moore.

 

So, a proven commodity (though it is only a solid and unspectacular commodity) in an area of great need is not worth as much as a prospect who is far from "can't miss" and won't be helpful for a couple of years even if he doesn't miss?

 

Seriously?

 

This reminds me alot of people who wouldn't trade Guzman, Kelton, Bobby Hill, or Choi several years ago. Until the Cubs produce a position player with a clue at the Major League level, I am all for dealing a "prospect" for a Major Leaguer who is a position of need.

 

 

I think Pie could be helpful THIS year. Certainly by next year...

 

Pie rates well about what Kelton or Hill ever did. He's produced at a much higher level than either of them did...and at a much younger age.

 

The jury's still out on Guzman. I do think he's going to be successful. It's not fair to put pitchers in the same category as position players though. Pitchers are much more likely to get injurred.

 

No, Jennings is not worth Pie. Heck, I think Marshall in two years will be as good as Jennings. But maybe that's just me.

 

I'm sorry, I just whole-heartedly disagree. Jason Jennings is a pitcher entering his prime who just posted a respectable WHIP (1.37) and ERS (3.78) while pitching half his games at Coors. Pie is a prospect who posted a decent OPS in AAA, with a little power (15 HR) and a little speed (though his 17/11 SB/CS ratio is very bad. Heck, people are butchering Soriano for his 41/17 ratio). Jennings is a possible 15 game winner for us over the next couple of years. Pie is a guy who might sniff the bigs this season, and won't likely offer any valuable help until 2008. A solid SP who might win 15+ games for us in 2007 or a AAA CF who still has miles to go before becoming the leadoff hitter we desperately need him to be?

 

Sorry, but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

That props up Jennings for all his successes, and criticizes Pie for all his failures. The inverse is that it would be crazy to trade your top prospect, one of the top 25-50 in baseball, a guy who put up a .900+ OPS in the second half at AAA at age 21 who is a 5 tool guy, for a middle of the rotation pitcher who has had one good season out of his last 4 and is approaching free agency.

 

Obviously the reality is somewhere in between. Pie didn't have an amazing season, but he was great in the second half, was extremely young for his league, and still has all the physical tools that made him such a hot prospect since he was in Lansing. Jennings on the other hand, wasn't as bad in '03-'05 as his ERA+ might suggest, posting decidedly decent numbers away from Coors in that time. Considering that Pie is one of if not our best trade ammunition(I want him to start in CF, but that's a different topic for a different thread), we should deal him in a trade or a package for a player that's going to have a large impact, be it a top of the rotation starter, or a big bat. While it may be a fair deal to trade him straight up for Jennings, I really don't think it serves the Cubs best interest to do so.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Fans are very slow in coming around to accept the market for pitchers under the age of 30 that produce league average numbers. These guys have great value to an organization and will command good returns on the market.

 

Teams recognize they can win in both the regular season and post-season with one true ace, one good starter, and 3 servicable average starters. And that could add up to over 60 million if the staff is mostly veterans.

 

Once they hit FA, these guys are making 7-10 million a year, and the number is going up, because the 7 million benchmark is now two years old. So if you can get a league average starter that has a history of durability for 5 million a year, it's a bargain. A bargain worth a top prospect for most organizations.

 

But Jennings only has one year before he makes 7-10 million in free agency. That argument has much more merit for someone who is earlier in the arbitration stage than for Jason Jennings or Jake Westbrook.

[Bull]

There are a lot of reasons to like Jennings over Lilly whom the Cubs have been courting per rotoworld.

 

more innings per start, for one.

[mg420]

There are a lot of reasons to like Jennings over Lilly whom the Cubs have been courting per rotoworld.

 

more innings per start, for one.

 

but lilly will only cost $ while jennings will cost $ and prospects.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm intrigued by Jennings, but the Cubs have ery limited tradable assets that can net good players, so I'm not that interested.

[Elrhino]

Its hard to take the cat calls for improved OBP seriously when Cub fans continuously overrate free swinging toolsy guys like Pie and Patterson. Some fans would continuously criticize the organization to no end for OBP (justifiably), and then turn around and defend Corey and his .280 OBP to the death.

 

Why is Pie untouchable? He was the #27 rated BA prospect last year, and after this year he probably dropped considerably. He was still terrible at plate discipline and pitch selection the 2nd half of the season, the only thing that changed is he started making contact. Sorry, I see him as Preston Wilson with a little less power. I think his value will drop considerably as he gets older and the luster off "he's only 21" wears off.

[mg420]

Its hard to take the cat calls for improved OBP seriously when Cub fans continuously overrate free swingers like Pie and Patterson. Some fans would continuously criticize the organization to no end for OBP (justifiably), and then turn around and defend Corey and his .280 OBP to the death.

 

i dont think anyone is overating pie. the fact is that he is only 21 and has the tools to be a great offensive player (from all accounts his d is already great) and has only a partial season in aaa. to trade him now would be a huge risk imo. corey was rushed and mis-coached when he got to the majors. i think 2 years at iowa if they can sign dave roberts will make all the difference in the world to his development. i can see a gold glove cf who hits .280 with 20 hr's, steals 50 bases and has an ops of .850 in the majors just as easily as i can see cp #2.

[Elrhino]

Its hard to take the cat calls for improved OBP seriously when Cub fans continuously overrate free swingers like Pie and Patterson. Some fans would continuously criticize the organization to no end for OBP (justifiably), and then turn around and defend Corey and his .280 OBP to the death.

 

i dont think anyone is overating pie. the fact is that he is only 21 and has the tools to be a great offensive player (from all accounts his d is already great) and has only a partial season in aaa. to trade him now would be a huge risk imo. corey was rushed and mis-coached when he got to the majors. i think 2 years at iowa if they can sign dave roberts will make all the difference in the world to his development. i can see a gold glove cf who hits .280 with 20 hr's, steals 50 bases and has an ops of .850 in the majors just as easily as i can see cp #2.

 

When I see predictions like 50 stolen bases, I do think he's being overrated. What's that based on? He had 17 last year (with 11 CS) in 560 at bats.

[mg420]

Its hard to take the cat calls for improved OBP seriously when Cub fans continuously overrate free swingers like Pie and Patterson. Some fans would continuously criticize the organization to no end for OBP (justifiably), and then turn around and defend Corey and his .280 OBP to the death.

 

i dont think anyone is overating pie. the fact is that he is only 21 and has the tools to be a great offensive player (from all accounts his d is already great) and has only a partial season in aaa. to trade him now would be a huge risk imo. corey was rushed and mis-coached when he got to the majors. i think 2 years at iowa if they can sign dave roberts will make all the difference in the world to his development. i can see a gold glove cf who hits .280 with 20 hr's, steals 50 bases and has an ops of .850 in the majors just as easily as i can see cp #2.

 

When I see predictions like 50 stolen bases, I do think he's being overrated. What's that based on? He had 17 last year (with 11 CS) in 560 at bats.

 

i think that i will rely on people that see these guys every day and do this for a living:

http://www.baseballevolution.com/previews/agreenberg.html

 

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=251&p=8&c=1&nid=2485461

[Soul]

I'm intrigued by Jennings, but the Cubs have ery limited tradable assets that can net good players, so I'm not that interested.

 

Yeap. That's me in a nutshell too.

[Laura]

Evan Grant / Dallas Morning News[/url]"]

To obtain pitching in a trade, the Rangers would probably have to give up young pitching in exchange. The most intriguing name could be Colorado's Jason Jennings, who can be a free agent after 2007. Colorado is trying to negotiate an extension for Jennings, who attended Mesquite Poteet and Baylor, but if that is unsuccessful, the Rockies might consider trading him.

 

Any offer for Jennings, who went 9-13 with a 3.78 ERA in 2006, would probably have to start with a young pitching prospect such as Edinson Volquez and also include a major league reliever. Lefty C.J. Wilson is interesting to several clubs.

[Elrhino]

Its hard to take the cat calls for improved OBP seriously when Cub fans continuously overrate free swingers like Pie and Patterson. Some fans would continuously criticize the organization to no end for OBP (justifiably), and then turn around and defend Corey and his .280 OBP to the death.

 

i dont think anyone is overating pie. the fact is that he is only 21 and has the tools to be a great offensive player (from all accounts his d is already great) and has only a partial season in aaa. to trade him now would be a huge risk imo. corey was rushed and mis-coached when he got to the majors. i think 2 years at iowa if they can sign dave roberts will make all the difference in the world to his development. i can see a gold glove cf who hits .280 with 20 hr's, steals 50 bases and has an ops of .850 in the majors just as easily as i can see cp #2.

 

When I see predictions like 50 stolen bases, I do think he's being overrated. What's that based on? He had 17 last year (with 11 CS) in 560 at bats.

 

i think that i will rely on people that see these guys every day and do this for a living:

http://www.baseballevolution.com/previews/agreenberg.html

 

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=251&p=8&c=1&nid=2485461

 

An evaluation of Adam Greenberg and an Scout.com page. Impressive.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In the words of the Denver Post, the Cubs "kicked the tires" on Jennings.

 

Link.

 

The Chicago Cubs, Texas Rangers and Houston Astros were among those who kicked the tires on the right-hander, whom the Rockies are developing a market for in the event they cannot sign him to a multiyear contract extension.

 

And for those wondering what it might cost to get him...

 

The Cubs possess super center-field prospect Felix Pie and have a battery of power relievers, including Michael Wuertz.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

In the words of the Denver Post, the Cubs "kicked the tires" on Jennings.

 

Link.

 

The Chicago Cubs, Texas Rangers and Houston Astros were among those who kicked the tires on the right-hander, whom the Rockies are developing a market for in the event they cannot sign him to a multiyear contract extension.

 

And for those wondering what it might cost to get him...

 

The Cubs possess super center-field prospect Felix Pie and have a battery of power relievers, including Michael Wuertz.

 

Next.

[Laura]

Phil Rogers[/url]"] The Rockies have had some talks with the Cubs about pitcher Jason Jennings but want Rich Hill, whom scouts believe has the same skill set as a young Zito. He's an untouchable.

 

Mike Berardino & Juan C. Rodriguez[/url]"]

Meanwhile, Cubs GM Jim Hendry says the team is not dealing touted outfield prospect Felix Pie, another player on the Marlins' wish list.

[nick23]

Phil Rogers[/url]"] The Rockies have had some talks with the Cubs about pitcher Jason Jennings but want Rich Hill, whom scouts believe has the same skill set as a young Zito. He's an untouchable.

 

Mike Berardino & Juan C. Rodriguez[/url]"]

Meanwhile, Cubs GM Jim Hendry says the team is not dealing touted outfield prospect Felix Pie, another player on the Marlins' wish list.

 

Who are we not trading Pie to the Marlins for?

[10man]

dontrelle?

[nick23]

dontrelle?

 

Depending on who else they're asking for, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Would the Marlins do Pie, Marshall and Wuertz for Willis?

[Shavo]

dontrelle?

 

Depending on who else they're asking for, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Would the Marlins do Pie, Marshall and Wuertz for Willis?

 

No trading Wuertz.

[CUBZ99]

dontrelle?

 

Depending on who else they're asking for, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Would the Marlins do Pie, Marshall and Wuertz for Willis?

 

There was a blurb in one of the New York papers about this. Supposedly the Marlins are willing to trade on of their young pitchers for a cheap CF. I'll look at their roster and see if I can find the article again, but I believe it was Olson or Johnson.

 

As a practical matter, Hendry can't trade Pie at the moment, because he is currently the starting CF.