Zambrano for A-Rod . . . would ya?

[goonys evil twin]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.

 

 

ARod costs $16m per year for 4 years. I'm guessing Zambrano won't cost that much.

[frostwyrm]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.

 

I'll take ARod then.

[Guest]

ARod is significantly better than any player on the Cubs roster right now. Bar none.

 

Tim,

 

I have a great amount of respect for you analysis of the game, and I almost never disagree with you. That said, i386/.5t frustrates me when you make a proclamation like this, yet don't bother to post any supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you, but it's obvious a number of people here feel otherwise.

 

So let me ask you this: why is it that you feel ARod is significantly better than Zambrano, Ramirez or Lee? More importantly, do you think he'll remain significantly better over the course of 3 years, assuming the Cubs are able to hold on to all three of them for three years?

When playing SS (and I believe he still can), ARod is either the best or second best player at that position in the history of baseball. He's not at his peak any longer, but he's still the best SS in the game by far.

 

No current Cub at any position can make either of those claims.

 

The numbers ARod puts up year in and year out are simply outrageous. He's averaged a line of .305/.386/.573/959 across his entire career. He's a proficient basestealer. He is a (deserved) two-time MVP and has (deservedly) finished in the top 3 five times.

 

Nobody on the Cubs roster can even come within shouting distance of any of these accomplishments.

 

Past accomplishments? No. Nobody on the Cubs has been as consistently great as Rodriguez. But Lee certainly has a chance to repeat what he did in 2005, which would be as good as what Rodriguez could do. And Ramirez still has a good chance for improvement at his age. And at his age, it is not hard to imagine Zambrano putting up 3-4 years as the best, or at least top 5 pitcher in baseball, which would easily match what Rodriguez is capable of doing over the next 4 years.

Is it hard to imagine a situation where Ramirez, Lee or Z could match or beat the contributions of ARod? No. But if you go with the assumption he can play SS, can you name another Cub likely to dominate his position like ARod can? Even close? I can name several 3B I'd take over Aramis for the next few years. I can name at least that many 1B I'd take over Lee. Pitchers are always a big gamble to stay healthy for that long, let alone productive.

 

It's possible that one of those guys could be more productive for their positions than ARod. But the odds are greatly in ARod's favor of being better over the next 3-4 years.

 

Also consider he's coming from a park that punishes RH hitters and coming to one that favors them.

[frostwyrm]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.

 

 

ARod costs $16m per year for 4 years. I'm guessing Zambrano won't cost that much.

 

I bet Z will get that much or something very close to it. Look at what AJ Burnett got. Z should be in line for a few mil more annually than Burnett.

[goonys evil twin]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.

 

 

ARod costs $16m per year for 4 years. I'm guessing Zambrano won't cost that much.

 

I bet Z will get that much or something very close to it. Look at what AJ Burnett got. Z should be in line for a few mil more annually than Burnett.

 

AJ didn't come close to $16m per, he only got $11. I think Zambrano might get close to what Roy Halladay got in his latest extension, 3/40, which is 13.3m per.

[frostwyrm]

Z is great, but he's going to cost a fortune after 2007. So will ARod, so it comes to a question of which superstar gives you better bang for the buck. I'll take ARod, assuming the Yanks eat about $10M per year of his $27M annual salary. If he can still play SS I'd be willing to pay more.

Texas is already eating $10M of his annual salary.

 

 

ARod costs $16m per year for 4 years. I'm guessing Zambrano won't cost that much.

 

I bet Z will get that much or something very close to it. Look at what AJ Burnett got. Z should be in line for a few mil more annually than Burnett.

 

AJ didn't come close to $16m per, he only got $11. I think Zambrano might get close to what Roy Halladay got in his latest extension, 3/40, which is 13.3m per.

 

Unless the market has declined I expect Z to get significantly more than AJ. We'll have a clearer picture after we see what Zito and Schmidt get.

[soccer10k]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, "Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week". I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

Edited October 24, 2006 by soccer10k

[SouthSideRyan]

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Not to mention the possibility that A-Rod can't play SS well anymore. I don't like defensive metrics for the most part, but they seem to universally pan A-Rod as a 3B after he started out decently there a couple years ago.

[Guest]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

[soccer10k]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

 

1B. If Ryan Howard can play 1B, Pronk can too.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

 

1B. If Ryan Howard can play 1B, Pronk can too.

 

I think if he were a viable option, Cleveland would've given him more of a shot considering their lack of first basemen.

[Guest]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

 

1B. If Ryan Howard can play 1B, Pronk can too.

 

I think if he were a viable option, Cleveland would've given him more of a shot considering their lack of first basemen.

 

and dhed whom? There are some surprisingly bad DHs out there. I think Arod's value is if he can play SS or 2b - especially if Ramirez is back. Take him away from the middle infield and his value is less - though I would still take him at any position on the cubs save 1b.

[soccer10k]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

 

1B. If Ryan Howard can play 1B, Pronk can too.

 

I think if he were a viable option, Cleveland would've given him more of a shot considering their lack of first basemen.

 

He's in the AL. If you don't have to play him at 1B, why do it anyway?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was sarcastic about ARod, read my thoghts on ARod/Jeter on mlbcenter or I think this site. I am far from an ARod hater.

 

And I can name a few pitchers Z is not better than. I am on the Z-could-net- us-alot-and-we-should-try-to-get-it bandwagon. He is far from perfect, with his control, workload, and back problems being major red flags going foward in his 26-32 years.

 

Also agree on ARod being underrated here. The guy was/is one of the top 2 players in baseball (depending on how much you like Pujols). As a SS there is no one better in the game. Period.

 

When considering trading for a player it doesn't matter what he once was. It matters what you think he's going to do in the future. And to quote myself from before, Just off the top of my head, I'll take Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Hafner, Wright over ARod any day of the week. I realize that you have to take a players position into account as well but you must take age into account as well.

 

Where would you play Pronk?

 

1B. If Ryan Howard can play 1B, Pronk can too.

 

I think if he were a viable option, Cleveland would've given him more of a shot considering their lack of first basemen.

 

and dhed whom? There are some surprisingly bad DHs out there.

 

He's played less than 5 games there in 2 years. And this year they had 6 different people play the position and Hafner was easily last on the list in PT(3+ games).

[Jazz]

Looking over this thread again, and the various A-Rod threads and thinking very critically I have come up with the conclusion that A-Rod for Zambrano straight up (if that was the dealbreaker) would be of our best interest to take.

 

Zambrano is among the game's top pitchers, but with that there comes alot of circumstances that could lower his value considerably in the near future. After this season, he is going to be a FA. If Hendry feels that he won't be able to sign him to a reasonable contract (less than 15 mil), than this would be a great time to start trading when someone's value is highest. Before I go forward with Zambrano for A-Rod I explore every single option I can to make a deal that doesn't involve Z. Afterwards if that has no results I look to see every avenue I can take where I would be getting a better haul than just A-Rod. I think I would tempted to take a package of Billingsley, Laroche, and Drew for Zambrano, and Jones.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Looking over this thread again, and the various A-Rod threads and thinking very critically I have come up with the conclusion that A-Rod for Zambrano straight up (if that was the dealbreaker) would be of our best interest to take.

 

Zambrano is among the game's top pitchers, but with that there comes alot of circumstances that could lower his value considerably in the near future. After this season, he is going to be a FA. If Hendry feels that he won't be able to sign him to a reasonable contract (less than 15 mil), than this would be a great time to start trading when someone's value is highest. Before I go forward with Zambrano for A-Rod I explore every single option I can to make a deal that doesn't involve Z. Afterwards if that has no results I look to see every avenue I can take where I would be getting a better haul than just A-Rod. I think I would tempted to take a package of Billingsley, Laroche, and Drew for Zambrano, and Jones.

 

If i requires Zambrano to get ARod, then move on. ARod is a pipedream. A fun pipedream, but one nonetheless. I rather keep Z over acquiring ARod, anyday.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I would actually rather dangle Z to the Dodgers for a nice little package.

 

Theres a rumor going around that the Tigers might trade Bonderman for a 1B (I think its BS but why not dream). Lee is by far our best player, but to get a young stud pitcher still growing up (he's also a K and groundball pitcher) for him would be huge. Leyland seems to heavily underrate Bonderman, and it's been showing all postseason long (he's the last in line).

 

After that dangle Z for Drew, Billingsley/Broxton/Elbert, and Loney.

 

Z has too many red flags for me to say "You're the guy to build around." Do that with a nice little core forming in my dream world containing a Bonderman, a healthy Prior, and one of those 3 Dodger stud pitching prospects.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I would actually rather dangle Z to the Dodgers for a nice little package.

 

Theres a rumor going around that the Tigers might trade Bonderman for a 1B (I think its BS but why not dream). Lee is by far our best player, but to get a young stud pitcher still growing up (he's also a K and groundball pitcher) for him would be huge. Leyland seems to heavily underrate Bonderman, and it's been showing all postseason long (he's the last in line).

 

After that dangle Z for Drew, Billingsley/Broxton/Elbert, and Loney.

 

Z has too many red flags for me to say "You're the guy to build around." Do that with a nice little core forming in my dream world containing a Bonderman, a healthy Prior, and one of those 3 Dodger stud pitching prospects.

 

I rather have a package centered around either Edwin Santana (or Jered Weaver) and Howie Kendrick, with perhaps Jeff Mathis (I still think the kid will be a very good player in the majors) and perhaps even Scot Shields. If you going to deal Z, move him to the AL.

[Mark_R]

Jered Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and Brandon Wood and the Angels can have Z.

[shnsajax]

Jered Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and Brandon Wood and the Angels can have Z.

 

Yeah in a heartbeat. Doubt they would put in that much though.

[goonys evil twin]

I would actually rather dangle Z to the Dodgers for a nice little package.

 

Theres a rumor going around that the Tigers might trade Bonderman for a 1B (I think its BS but why not dream). Lee is by far our best player, but to get a young stud pitcher still growing up (he's also a K and groundball pitcher) for him would be huge. Leyland seems to heavily underrate Bonderman, and it's been showing all postseason long (he's the last in line).

 

After that dangle Z for Drew, Billingsley/Broxton/Elbert, and Loney.

 

Z has too many red flags for me to say "You're the guy to build around." Do that with a nice little core forming in my dream world containing a Bonderman, a healthy Prior, and one of those 3 Dodger stud pitching prospects.

 

Bonderman is younger than Z, but Z was much much better at the same age. Bonderman might not be much more than a slightly better version of Jon Garland. No way would I trade Lee for just that.

[Warpticon]

I would actually rather dangle Z to the Dodgers for a nice little package.

 

Theres a rumor going around that the Tigers might trade Bonderman for a 1B (I think its BS but why not dream). Lee is by far our best player, but to get a young stud pitcher still growing up (he's also a K and groundball pitcher) for him would be huge. Leyland seems to heavily underrate Bonderman, and it's been showing all postseason long (he's the last in line).

 

After that dangle Z for Drew, Billingsley/Broxton/Elbert, and Loney.

 

Z has too many red flags for me to say "You're the guy to build around." Do that with a nice little core forming in my dream world containing a Bonderman, a healthy Prior, and one of those 3 Dodger stud pitching prospects.

 

Bonderman is younger than Z, but Z was much much better at the same age. Bonderman might not be much more than a slightly better version of Jon Garland. No way would I trade Lee for just that.

 

Sure, if he never improves again ever. Also...Lee?

[goonys evil twin]

I would actually rather dangle Z to the Dodgers for a nice little package.

 

Theres a rumor going around that the Tigers might trade Bonderman for a 1B (I think its BS but why not dream). Lee is by far our best player, but to get a young stud pitcher still growing up (he's also a K and groundball pitcher) for him would be huge. Leyland seems to heavily underrate Bonderman, and it's been showing all postseason long (he's the last in line).

 

After that dangle Z for Drew, Billingsley/Broxton/Elbert, and Loney.

 

Z has too many red flags for me to say "You're the guy to build around." Do that with a nice little core forming in my dream world containing a Bonderman, a healthy Prior, and one of those 3 Dodger stud pitching prospects.

 

Bonderman is younger than Z, but Z was much much better at the same age. Bonderman might not be much more than a slightly better version of Jon Garland. No way would I trade Lee for just that.

 

Sure, if he never improves again ever. Also...Lee?

 

Derrek Lee, Cubs 1st baseman.

 

 

Garland has been better, at times in his career, than Bonderman was this year. The point is Bonderman is no Zambrano. It's being suggested that the Cubs trade their two best players, and get back lesser players. I'm not a big fan of that.