Venezuela Winter League

[CaliforniaRaisin]

SATURDAY:

 

Navegantes beat the Tigres 5-1, box:

 

SS R. Cedeño 0/3, BB (16), K (32)

SP A. Guzmán 3 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 3 K/0 BB, 4 GO-2 FO

 

Leones lose 14-11, box:

 

C H. Blanco 4/4, 2 R, 2 RBI, HBP

 

Overall:

 

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 33/149, .221/.288/.329/.617, 1 HBP, 16 BB, 32 K, 3 HR, 7 2B, 0/5 SB, 4 E

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 25.2 IP, 8 R, 6 ER, 18 H, 24 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 2.10 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 26 GO-24 FO

Henry Blanco (Leones): 44/194, .227/.288/.320/.608, 2 HBP, 17 BB, 27 K, 3 HR, 9 2B, 2/3 SB, 3 E

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Granted, it's a small sample size, but Angel is having a nice little run there. Are they using him out of the bullpen?

[Guest]

SATURDAY:

 

Navegantes beat the Tigres 5-1, box:

 

SS R. Cedeño 0/3, BB (16), K (32)

SP A. Guzmán 3 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 3 K/0 BB, 4 GO-2 FO

 

Leones lose 14-11, box:

 

C H. Blanco 4/4, 2 R, 2 RBI, HBP

 

Overall:

 

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 33/149, .221/.288/.329/.617, 1 HBP, 16 BB, 32 K, 3 HR, 7 2B, 0/5 SB, 4 E

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 25.2 IP, 8 R, 6 ER, 18 H, 24 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 2.10 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 26 GO-24 FO

Henry Blanco (Leones): 44/194, .227/.288/.320/.608, 2 HBP, 17 BB, 27 K, 3 HR, 9 2B, 2/3 SB, 3 E

Angel's my boy!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Granted, it's a small sample size, but Angel is having a nice little run there. Are they using him out of the bullpen?

 

Every game he's been in, he's started.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Granted, it's a small sample size, but Angel is having a nice little run there. Are they using him out of the bullpen?

 

Every game he's been in, he's started.

 

Why only 3 IP?

[Guest]

Granted, it's a small sample size, but Angel is having a nice little run there. Are they using him out of the bullpen?

 

Every game he's been in, he's started.

 

Why only 3 IP?

I'm sure the Cubs have him on a pitch count.

[Vinestal]

Granted, it's a small sample size, but Angel is having a nice little run there. Are they using him out of the bullpen?

 

Every game he's been in, he's started.

 

Why only 3 IP?

I'm sure the Cubs have him on a pitch count.

 

I wonder how the strike zone down there differs from our typical MLB strike zone. Is it a larger zone? The most encouraging stat for Angel is that K/BB ratio, thats amazing. If he has his control back, look out.

[Mephistopheles]

Well, the Pacific Coast League had better watch out, the National League won't have to worry about him.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Tigres beat the Leones 8-0, box:

 

C H. Blanco 1/3

SS R. Cedeño 2/4, 4 R, 4 RBI, HR (4), 3B (1), BB (17), K (33), CS (6)

 

Overall:

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 45/197, .228/.288/.320/.608, 2 HBP, 17 BB, 27 K, 3 HR, 9 2B, 2/3 SB, 3 E

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 35/153, .229/.299/.366/.665, 1 HBP, 17 BB, 33 K, 4 HR, 1 3B, 7 2B, 0/6 SB, 4 E

 

---

 

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 25.2 IP, 8 R, 6 ER, 18 H, 24 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 2.10 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 26 GO-24 FO

 

Maybe Ronny's coaches shouldn't allow him to steal bases?

Edited January 9, 2007 by CaliforniaRaisin

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well, the Pacific Coast League had better watch out, the National League won't have to worry about him.

 

This is sad, but true. Thanks for signing Marquis, Jim.

[craig]

Well, the Pacific Coast League had better watch out, the National League won't have to worry about him.

 

This is sad, but true. Thanks for signing Marquis, Jim.

 

I honestly don't understand the logic from eithe rof you guys. Are you guys 100% convinced that Prior is healthy or something? That doesn't make any sense. Or that Wade Miller is is certain to be healthy and good? Or that Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, and best-of-Prior-Miller will never miss any significant number of starts?

 

Seems pretty illogical to me. If Guzman is ready to be so good that his presence in the Cub rotation would put the NL on need-to-worry-alert, what would be necessary to preclude him from getting a significant opportunity this year?

a) Prior or Miller block him. Certainly if Prior is pitching healthy enough, the decision won't be based on competition. Even if Guzman is throwing better than Prior, Prior will be given the spot. But how likely is it that Prior will be locking down a rotation spot for 33 starts? That's the only way Guzman can be blocked out even if he's pitching really well. That seems so unlikely, I'm not sure it's logical to be so bitter about such an unlikely situation.

 

b) Miller: If a spot is between Miller and Guzman, obviously Miller gets the tiebreaker. But if Guzman is looking so good that it's criminal to keep him in Iowa for a while, how likely is it that Miller will be so good that he blocks him? That seems super unlikely too, given Miller's questionable arm recently, his junk stuff recently, and his disposably cheap contract. If Guzman can't beat out Miller, I expect that will say more about Guzman (negative) than Miller being great. And if Guzman is throwing great, but Miller is still so great that he continues to block Guzman, well woo hoo.

 

c) What if Guzman is pitching great, but one of Miller/Prior are so healthy/great that they block him out of that rotation spot. Would even so unlikely a scenario block a Guzman-pitching-great from getting in? Only if the not only the Prior/Miller great but the Z-Hill-Lilly-Marquis foursome **all** stay healthy. Possible, I suppose. Probable, not hardly. Pitching is tough on pitchers. Z is obviously overdue for the DL. So is Hill. Lilly and Marquis, they are pitchers, so DL can visit them too. Even in the fantasy world where Prior comes to camp with his arm in Cy Young healthy form, so that even a pitching-great-Guzman gets bumped to #6, good #6 starters usually get to pitch.... a lot.

 

I'm no marquis advocate, don't get me wrong. I just think that it's illogical to act as if Guzman opportunity is closed when he's got a clear shot at #6, and the only thing between #6 and the rotation is perfect health of #1-5. When one of those is Mark Prior.

[craig]

This is a serious question: I don't remember my rules well enough. There are rules regarding the trading of free agents, but the details matter. Do any of you know the particulars?

 

Is it that you can't trade a FA before June? Can't during his first year? Can at any time, but if so he can then demand another trade after year is done? What are the limitations, if any, on being able to trade Marquis, perhaps as soon as this summer?

 

If Prior looked good (or at least good enough to hold a rotation spot, even if not as good as Prior prime), and Guzman was making a compellling case, and the other four starters were all healthy, could you open a spot by trading Marquis, perhaps as soon as June or July?

 

By accounts, there were other shoppers interested in Marquis. The concept that he might be tradable is not inconceivable.

*It would be inconceivable, of course, if he's pitching at te 6.03-type level (or worse).

*But if he's moving along at a 4.3 ERA, for example, might his $21/3 contract look very acceptable to a team with pitching problems?

 

OK, it's almost certainly inconceivable. If he's pitching badly enough that Hendry would shop him, nobody will want him. And if he's pitching well enough so that Hendry could trade him, Hendry probably won't consider that.

 

Probably the only scenario is if the rotation is stuffed, Marquis is pitching decently, Guzman is pitching really well but is still blocked, but despite all those good things the team is still out of the picture. Not too likely.

[Guest]

This is a serious question: I don't remember my rules well enough. There are rules regarding the trading of free agents, but the details matter. Do any of you know the particulars?

 

Is it that you can't trade a FA before June? Can't during his first year? Can at any time, but if so he can then demand another trade after year is done? What are the limitations, if any, on being able to trade Marquis, perhaps as soon as this summer?

I don't know of the new CBA changed any of thise, but here are the old rules:

 

- You can't trade a free agent before June 15th unless you have his permission

- After June 15th, you can trade the FA without his permission, but...

- If the FA is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract, he has the right to demand a trade from his new team. This is seldom exercised, though, as the player can wind up in limbo at the end of ST without a new team or a contract when most teams have already blown their budgets.

 

If Prior looked good (or at least good enough to hold a rotation spot, even if not as good as Prior prime), and Guzman was making a compelling case, and the other four starters were all healthy, could you open a spot by trading Marquis, perhaps as soon as June or July?

 

By accounts, there were other shoppers interested in Marquis. The concept that he might be tradable is not inconceivable.

*It would be inconceivable, of course, if he's pitching at te 6.03-type level (or worse).

*But if he's moving along at a 4.3 ERA, for example, might his $21/3 contract look very acceptable to a team with pitching problems?

 

OK, it's almost certainly inconceivable. If he's pitching badly enough that Hendry would shop him, nobody will want him. And if he's pitching well enough so that Hendry could trade him, Hendry probably won't consider that.

 

Probably the only scenario is if the rotation is stuffed, Marquis is pitching decently, Guzman is pitching really well but is still blocked, but despite all those good things the team is still out of the picture. Not too likely.

To further your point...

 

Lilly has never managed to pitch 200 IP in his career. It is highly probably that someone from the minors will be getting a shot at some point this year.

[moorecg]

Tigres beat the Leones 8-0, box:

 

SS R. Cedeño 2/4, 4 R, 4 RBI, HR (4), 3B (1), BB (17), K (33), CS (6)

 

 

Nice day by Ronny...but how'd he score 4 runs and only get on 3 times?

[goonys evil twin]

Tigres beat the Leones 8-0, box:

 

SS R. Cedeño 2/4, 4 R, 4 RBI, HR (4), 3B (1), BB (17), K (33), CS (6)

 

 

Nice day by Ronny...but how'd he score 4 runs and only get on 3 times?

 

A fielder's choice would count as a hitless at-bat, but he'd have a chance to score after reaching base.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Tigres lost 4-3, box:

 

SS R. Cedeño 1/4, 2B (8), K (34)

 

Overall:

 

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 36/157, .229/.298/.369/.667, 1 HBP, 17 BB, 34 K, 4 HR, 1 3B, 8 2B, 0/6 SB, 4 E

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Leones lose 5-2, box:

 

C H. Blanco 2/4, RBI

 

Overall:

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 47/201, .234/.292/.323/.615, 2 HBP, 17 BB, 27 K, 3 HR, 9 2B, 2/3 SB, 3 E

 

---

 

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 25.2 IP, 8 R, 6 ER, 18 H, 24 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 2.10 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 26 GO-24 FO

[CuseCubFan69]

Isn't it near time to shut Guzman down to be ready for the spring?

[fromthestretch]

Lilly has never managed to pitch 200 IP in his career. It is highly probably that someone from the minors will be getting a shot at some point this year.

 

That's due more to the fact that he doesn't go deep into games. He's made at least 31 starts in three of the last four years.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

WEDNESDAY:

 

Tigres beat the Leones 3-1, box:

 

C H. Blanco 1/4, 2B (10), K (28)

SS R. Cedeño 2/5, R, RBI, K (35)

 

Overall:

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 48/205, .234/.291/.327/.618, 2 HBP, 17 BB, 28 K, 3 HR, 10 2B, 2/3 SB, 3 E

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 38/162, .235/.301/.377/.678, 1 HBP, 17 BB, 35 K, 4 HR, 1 3B, 8 2B, 0/6 SB, 4 E

 

---

 

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 25.2 IP, 8 R, 6 ER, 18 H, 24 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 2.10 ERA, 0.86 WHIP, 26 GO-24 FO

[Productive Outs]

'preciate the constant updates, raisin

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, I found a breakdown of the regular season and playoff stats for all 3 remaining Cubs in Venezuela from the VWL's web site:

 

Regular Season:

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 37/181, .204/.268/.298/.566, 1 HBP, 17 BB, 25 K, 3 HR, 8 2B, 4 E

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 32/139, .230/.284/.324/.608, 1 HBP, 11 BB, 30 K, 2 HR, 7 2B, 0/4 SB, 5 E

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 22.2 IP, 8 R, 8 ER, 18 H, 21 K/4 BB, 2 HR, 3.18 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 22 GO-22 FO

 

Playoffs:

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 12/26, .462/.500/.538/1.038, 2 HBP, 0 BB, 3 K, 2 2B

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 6/26, .231/.300/.615/.915, 3 BB, 7 K, 2 HR, 1 3B, 2 2B, 1/1 SB, 0 E

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 3 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 3 K/0 BB, 0.00 ERA, 0.00 WHIP, 4 GO-2 FO

 

Sorry for any previous errors since I was calculating them on my own.

Edited January 13, 2007 by CaliforniaRaisin

[goonys evil twin]

That Blanco kid is clutch.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Leones win 10-5, box:

 

C H. Blanco 2/5, R, HR (1), RBI

 

Tigres beat the Navegantes 4-1, box

 

SS R. Cedeño 2/4, 2B (3)

SP A. Guzmán 4.2 IP, 0 R, 4 H, 2 K/1 BB, 6 GO-7 FO

 

Overall (Playoffs):

 

Henry Blanco (Leones): 14/31, .452/.485/.613/1.098, 2 HBP, 0 BB, 3 K, 1 HR, 2 2B

Ronny Cedeño (Tigres): 8/30, .267/.333/.633/.966, 3 BB, 7 K, 2 HR, 1 3B, 3 2B, 1/1 SB, 0 E

Angel Guzmán (Navegantes): 7.2 IP, 0 R, 4 H, 5 K/1 BB, 0.00 ERA, 0.65 WHIP, 10 GO-9 FO

Edited January 13, 2007 by CaliforniaRaisin

[RyCubsFan]

I hope Guz pitches like this in Spring Training!! :shock:

 

I'm still kinda hoping for a rotation of:

Zambrano, Hill, Prior, Lilly, Guzman