ny daily news: torre to be fired, piniella to take over

[ToupeeOnFire]

Not that I really wanted sweet lou but real teams act quickly. Hendry is always moving at a snails pace.

 

contrary to what I just wrote in the Arod thread, I bet they keep him for

at least another year and see if Piniella can turn him back around.

 

To be fair, Hendry "Acted quickly" to snag Baker back after the 2002 season, and how did that turn out? So, I don't nec...blame Hendry for "moving at a snails pace" to find his next, and perhaps last manager as GM of the Cubs.

Actually, they didn't move quickly. They held out for Baker. If I remember correctly, by the time Baker was hired after the World Series, the A's had already hired Ken Macha, the Mets hired Art Howe, the D-Rays had already corralled Lou Piniella, and the Rangers had hired Buck Schowalter. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on the timing of any of these hires.)

 

The point is, Hendry was given a lot of credit in the media for waiting it out and getting his man.

[Outshined_One]

Now watch Girardi go to Washington and Brenly skeedaddle to San Francisco.

 

I have to admit, I'd find it humorous to see Hendry strike out on every one of his named candidates.

 

Hey, it might be for the best. ;)

 

Remember the post-Jauron head coach search for the Bears? That turned out rather well, didn't it? :D

[jjgman21]

This is excellent news!

 

Torre for manager?

Any man who would bat A-Rod eighth, in any game, for any reason, is invalidated from consideration IMO.

Disagree. ARod has sucked in the playoffs recently. With that lineup that they have, I don't see a problem dropping him that low in the order.

 

it cracks me up how much people buy into clutchnicity.

 

I generally agree with you, but nobody is saying anything about clutch. How can anyone bat Arod in the heart of the New York Yankees line up, when he is not hitting at all, "clutch" situations or otherwise, in an elimination game? And 4th and 8th, is there really that much of a difference with that lineup?

 

I wish the some of the Cubs would not hit at all the way Arod did not hit at all the entire month of September.

 

edit - the more I look at this, the more it appears to have been some sort of statement to Arod. Robinson Cano had done nothing in the playoffs, but he was kept ahead of Arod? can't use the rlrlrl excuse because the two of them were sandwiched between two switche hitters. Sheffield was 1 for 8 with a couple of Ks. he didn't get dropped in the lineup.

Edited October 8, 2006 by jjgman21

[nilodnayr]

Based on a Chris Matthews interview I saw with Torre, theres about a 99.9% chance hes going to retire.

[Brian]

I wish the some of the Cubs would not hit at all the way Arod did not hit at all the entire month of September.

 

It's october and he was 1-11 with 0BB before game 4, 1-14 after. Simple fact of the matter is Arod bats in the middle of the order Joe Torre is stupid, Arod bats at the bottom of the order Joe Torre is stupid.

[Brian]

p.s. I'd love to have Arod on the Cubs (and Know he's a great player), I just think its ridiculous to fault Joe Torre for batting Arod 8th.

[nilodnayr]

p.s. I'd love to have Arod on the Cubs (and Know he's a great player), I just think its ridiculous to fault Joe Torre for batting Arod 8th.

 

Especially when his alternatives are Matsui and others. Its not like hes batting ronny cedeno in the middle or the order over AROD.

[jjgman21]

I wish the some of the Cubs would not hit at all the way Arod did not hit at all the entire month of September.

 

It's october and he was 1-11 with 0BB before game 4, 1-14 after. Simple fact of the matter is Arod bats in the middle of the order Joe Torre is stupid, Arod bats at the bottom of the order Joe Torre is stupid.

 

I don't know if you are trying to bring new york baseball politics into this with your statement, but the simple fact of the matter is he's Alex fricken Rodriguez. 1-11. that's one helluva sample size on which to judge. Damon was 0-7 in games 2 and 3. did he get dropped in the lineup? Sheffield, Bernie Williams did nothing. did they get dropped?

 

the notion that Arod's performance was the sole purpose of him being dropped in the lineup is preposterous.

[Brian]

I'm not saying it was, Joe was going to get roasted if he kept him in the middle of the lineup. I would have done the same thing. Realistically with the hitters that they have is there much of a difference batting 4th or batting 8th?

[NorthsideAvenger]

To be fair, Hendry "Acted quickly" to snag Baker back after the 2002 season, and how did that turn out? So, I don't nec...blame Hendry for "moving at a snails pace" to find his next, and perhaps last manager as GM of the Cubs

 

Well he did have to wait until after the world series... The tigers acted quickly when they picked up leyland on october 4th, 2005 the marlins acted quickly when they got Gonzalez and now the yankees have fired and hired a manager in the same day as well. Hendry knew in August that Baker wasn't coming back and he was to worried about offending baker to lay the ground work his short list of candidates.

 

 

to me it shows he doesn't have a plan. just my oppinion.

 

The difference between the Cubs situation and that of the Marlins/Tigers, is that both Leyland and Gonzalez were out of the playoffs/baseball when those job became openings. Baker was still "managing" the Giants at this time in 2002. And Hendry KNEW he wanted Baker, thus needed to be patient. So, you can't compare what the Cubs are doing right now, to that of the Marlins/Tigers, totally differnet situations.

 

And you also have to take this into consideration, Girardi is the "overwhelming people's choice" in Chicago to become the manager, and anybody that Hendry eventually hires---if not Girardi---is going to be panned. So obviously, Hendry has to take his time and figure out if Girardi---the people's champ and McDonough's choice is the choice. If he isn't, and we know Hendry just lost Piniella, so Hendry has to figure out who else to put on his list of candidates. Not to mention Hendry still must "interview' a couple of minorities for the job. So, obviously the fans are not involved in some of the behind the doors situation. And just because Hendry hasn't hired a manager "like the Marlins or Tigers," doesn't mean he doesn't have a plan. We just don't know what his plan is.

[jjgman21]

I'm not saying it was, Joe was going to get roasted if he kept him in the middle of the lineup. I would have done the same thing. Realistically with the hitters that they have is there much of a difference batting 4th or batting 8th?

 

there isn't alot of difference because of the depth of the lineup, but Arod is still the best hitter in that lineup. no, it wasn't ronnie cedeno being put fourth. it was a guy who had an OPS that was 100 points fewer than Arod this year though.

[questionmarkgrace]

well, he waited more than two weeks after the world series and all of the other candidates were gone. This is from a nov 15th article of 02:

 

"Even if there was only a small chance to hire him, Hendry was content to let his other candidates accept other managerial jobs.

 

The Texas Rangers snapped up Buck Showalter.

 

The Oakland A's promoted Ken Macha.

 

The Seattle Mariners hired Bob Melvin on Friday to replace Lou Piniella.

 

Fredi Gonzalez landed a major-league coaching job with the Atlanta Braves."

 

 

Secondly he doesn't have to abide by league suggestion of interviewing a minority canididate. The tigers didn't when they hired leyland, nothing happened to them and they are on their way to the championship series. There was an article on that very subject just the other day. I believe it was Sullivan talking about how hendry is moving too slow and by waiting to interview a list of canididates and not doing anything to start the search in august he is wasting time that should be spent worrying about how to make this team a contender. If he chooses Girardi fine, if not fine, but there should be a sense of urgency because there are alot more holes to fill than the managers spot. Also every source agrees that the top three managers mentioned are/were Piniella, girardi, and brenly. so what is stopping him? ALso he hasn't even conducted an interview yet!

[questionmarkgrace]

don't know if you are trying to bring new york baseball politics into this with your statement, but the simple fact of the matter is he's Alex fricken Rodriguez. 1-11. that's one helluva sample size on which to judge. Damon was 0-7 in games 2 and 3. did he get dropped in the lineup? Sheffield, Bernie Williams did nothing. did they get dropped?

 

the notion that Arod's performance was the sole purpose of him being dropped in the lineup is preposterous.

 

the latter half is why they dropped him in the line up. But in that line up it really shouldn't matter who hits where it was disgusting through and through. Their nine guy batted .342 with 78 rbis

 

"He's 1-for-11 in the first three games of the best-of-five series, hasn't driven in a run in 11 playoff games dating to 2004 and is batting .116 (5-for-43) in his last 12 postseason games."

[abuck1220]

This is excellent news!

 

Torre for manager?

Any man who would bat A-Rod eighth, in any game, for any reason, is invalidated from consideration IMO.

Disagree. ARod has sucked in the playoffs recently. With that lineup that they have, I don't see a problem dropping him that low in the order.

it cracks me up how much people buy into clutchnicity.

What? Where did I say anything about clutch? The fact is that ARod has sucked in the playoffs as a member of the New York Yankees. No ifs, ands, or buts... he's flat out been horrible. It'd be stupid to NOT drop him in the order. Oh wait... he's good in the regular season so continue to bat him in the top of the order regardless of a slump. Great idea.

 

yeah, completely revamping your lineup based on one guy's bad 40 ab's...now that's a great idea.

[Balsa]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

THIS IS TERRIFIC NEWS!!!!

 

Thank God I don't have to worry about Sweet Lou managing the Cubs. Praise be to Jebus. Every other candidate mentioned is fine with me, just not Piniella.

[Keener98]

Please please please tell me why in the hell anybody would want Joe Torre manging the Cubs? Outside of New York where he has been managing an all star team, Joe Torre has been an average to below average manager. Just say no to Torre.

[soccer10k]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

THIS IS TERRIFIC NEWS!!!!

 

Thank God I don't have to worry about Sweet Lou managing the Cubs. Praise be to Jebus. Every other candidate mentioned is fine with me, just not Piniella.

 

I second every word.

[soccer10k]

I wish the some of the Cubs would not hit at all the way Arod did not hit at all the entire month of September.

 

It's october and he was 1-11 with 0BB before game 4, 1-14 after. Simple fact of the matter is Arod bats in the middle of the order Joe Torre is stupid, Arod bats at the bottom of the order Joe Torre is stupid.

 

I don't know if you are trying to bring new york baseball politics into this with your statement, but the simple fact of the matter is he's Alex fricken Rodriguez. 1-11. that's one helluva sample size on which to judge. Damon was 0-7 in games 2 and 3. did he get dropped in the lineup? Sheffield, Bernie Williams did nothing. did they get dropped?

 

the notion that Arod's performance was the sole purpose of him being dropped in the lineup is preposterous.

 

It's also a fact that regardless of where ARod hits in the lineup, if he doesn't produce, he's going to get ripped. And if Torre kept ARod hitting in the heart of the order and ARod didn't produce, Torre would get ripped as well. It is New York baseball politics and you can't ignore that.

[RockTheIvy]

With Yankees fans, it would have been just as suicidal to continually bat him third. Torre was in a lose-lose situation.

[RynoRules]

There was very little Torre could do about this, IMO. Cashman and the Steinbrenner contingent in Tampa have been fighting about personnel for years now, and it shows in the makeup of that pitching staff, and to a lesser extent, the position players. The lineup is very old and injury prone (recall for example that they could have had Vlad rather than Sheff, but reports indicated that Big Stein wanted Sheff), and ARod has been the first new guy that I can recall who has not meshed into what is reputed to be baseball's most professional clubhouse. I also think its clear that the Captain has allowed his teammates to hang ARod out to dry.

 

Its an ugly scene there; if the report is true and Piniella is coming back for a second tour of duty (20 yrs after his first), they are doing Torre a favor.

I am betting Joe tips his cap and retires. Managing 11 seasons in NY is like managing 25 anywhere else. He had an amazing run; go home and enjoy the jewlery and millions on your way to the HOF, Joe.

 

I guess I'll settle for Lil' Joe (Girardi) or Brenly, though I think my opinion has been swayed and I prefer the later, but not by much.

 

EDIT: But if the Bochy reports are true, I'd prefer him to either of the above.

Edited October 8, 2006 by RynoRules

[RynoRules]

With Yankees fans, it would have been just as suicidal to continually bat him third. Torre was in a lose-lose situation.

 

Agreed.

[macuser2]

abuck, you deserve an official nsbb fruit basket. :D

 

And what kind of basket should nsbb send Baker? :P

[Sammy Sofa]

On the upisde, no Sweet Lou for the Cubs.

 

On the downside, any ARod rumors seem dashed since it seems highly doubtful he waves his no-trade clause if he's about to play under Lou. Short of the Yankees flat out telling him they want him gone, I think he's sticking there.

[C.C.]

On the upisde, no Sweet Lou for the Cubs.

 

On the downside, any ARod rumors seem dashed since it seems highly doubtful he waves his no-trade clause if he's about to play under Lou. Short of the Yankees flat out telling him they want him gone, I think he's sticking there.

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. I think the Yanks will move AROD. I can't imagine how bad next year will be for him. The fans are going boo him beyond belief next year. If he's not traded it'll be a very long year for him...

[Backtobanks]

On the upisde, no Sweet Lou for the Cubs.

 

On the downside, any ARod rumors seem dashed since it seems highly doubtful he waves his no-trade clause if he's about to play under Lou. Short of the Yankees flat out telling him they want him gone, I think he's sticking there.

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. I think the Yanks will move AROD. I can't imagine how bad next year will be for him. The fans are going boo him beyond belief next year. If he's not traded it'll be a very long year for him...

 

To all of you Piniella bashers,

It's a shame Hendry didn't quickly sign Piniella and then he could go to the Yankees with ARod as our compensation.