What would Barrett net for us?

[baseball7897]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

[FloridaCubbie]

I'd like to get both Wells and Freel if possible. Too bad it's not.

[baseball7897]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

 

Wells will hit around .300 each year, he will hit close to 30hr a year, and drive in 100 runs a year. He is the better player. Wells is entering his prime. I think he could repeat his numbers next year.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

 

Wells will hit around .300 each year, he will hit close to 30hr a year, and drive in 100 runs a year. He is the better player. Wells is entering his prime. I think he could repeat his numbers next year.

 

You keep saying Wells will hit around 300 each year. On what do you base that? He hit 269 last year and 271 the year before. Sure he can hit 300, he also could hit 270. His OBP is BA dependent. Freel has maintained around the same level for three straight seasons. Freel is a safer bet; Wells could give you a great season or he could be Jacque Jones. Wells may be a better player, but it is far from a certainty. He's the more athletic player, but that doesn't always equate into more productive...see Freddy Bynum.

[RationalSoxFan]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

 

Wells will hit around .300 each year, he will hit close to 30hr a year, and drive in 100 runs a year. He is the better player. Wells is entering his prime. I think he could repeat his numbers next year.

It'd be much more accurate to say he will do those things twice every five years.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

 

Wells will hit around .300 each year, he will hit close to 30hr a year, and drive in 100 runs a year. He is the better player. Wells is entering his prime. I think he could repeat his numbers next year.

It'd be much more accurate to say he will do those things twice every five years.

 

I'm agreeing with a Sox fan! What's the world coming to! :lol:

[baseball7897]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

:lol:

I guess im the only one who would take the better player.

 

While Wells has been better this year, it's debatable whether he is the better player. Freel was better in 2004-2005. Wells has a better slugging, but Freel's numbers have been remarkably consistent. The same can't be said for Wells.

 

Wells will hit around .300 each year, he will hit close to 30hr a year, and drive in 100 runs a year. He is the better player. Wells is entering his prime. I think he could repeat his numbers next year.

It'd be much more accurate to say he will do those things twice every five years.

 

162 game average for Vernon Wells: .285 Average 26HR 96RBI .330 OBP

 

162 game average for Freel: .276 Average 6HR 35RBI 46SB .369OBP

 

162 game average for ClarK: .283 Average 9HR 48RBI 12 SB .361OBP

 

162 game average for Pierre: .305 Average 2HR 47RBI 51SB .355 OBP

 

Depends on what the team needs. If you need a leadoff hitter then go for Pierre, Freel or Clark. If you need more power go for Wells. Cubs need a guy like Wells in their lineup.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

Wells does not hit .300/30/100 a year.

 

EDIT:

 

2004: 17.6 LD%, .286 BABIP

2005: 18.8, .275

2006: 17.5, .322

 

Odds are he's not going to repeat those numbers.

 

And considering the costs, I probably would take Clark and especially Freel.

[baseball7897]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

Wells does not hit .300/30/100 a year.

 

And considering the costs, I probably would take Clark and especially Freel.

 

I said around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI.

 

The cost would be Barrett and someone else. Then you sign Bengie Molina.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

Wells does not hit .300/30/100 a year.

 

And considering the costs, I probably would take Clark and especially Freel.

 

I said around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI.

 

The cost would be Barrett and someone else. Then you sign Bengie Molina.

 

However if you could Freel or Clark without giving up Barrett, we'd be better off.

 

Freel + Barrett > Molina + Wells.

[UK1679666180]

Vernon Wells has hit .300 twice in 5 full seasons. Same with 30 HR, and RBI means nothing.

 

Wells has also had a .340+ OBP twice in 5 seasons. Career years do not equal a players ability to repeat that performance.

 

So you would take Freel or Clark over Wells? I think you guys are getting to caught up with the whole OBP. I would take the guy who hits around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI a year, over a guy like Freel or Clark who will only put up a .370 OBP.

 

Wells does not hit .300/30/100 a year.

 

And considering the costs, I probably would take Clark and especially Freel.

 

I said around .300 with 30HR and 100RBI.

 

The cost would be Barrett and someone else. Then you sign Bengie Molina.

 

Let me understand this, if... Toronto trades Wells to the Cubs for Barrett and the Cubs sign Molina (who has a 7.5 mil option) next year, why would Toronto do this? Why wouldn't they keep Wells and exercise the option on Molina?

[neely crenshaw]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

[CuseCubFan69]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

[Rob]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

[baseball7897]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

The Cubs would be improving their team by adding Wells, then signing Bengie. Bengie wont post a high OBP, but he will hit around .275 and drive in 60 runs a year. His ability to call a game behind the plate, and his ability to play excellent defense is why I want him on the Cubs next year.

[Rob]

The Cubs would be improving their team by adding Wells, then signing Bengie. Bengie wont post a high OBP, but he will hit around .275 and drive in 60 runs a year. His ability to call a game behind the plate, and his ability to play excellent defense is why I want him on the Cubs next year.

 

He's gotten progressively worse in the field each of the last three seasons... with this season coming in at eight runs below average.

 

Added to the fact that his only offensive advantage over Blanco is about 15 points of OBP, and you have a no-offense/no-defense waste of a roster spot and about 8 million bucks.

 

And let's not forget the aging curve for catchers on the wrong side of thirty. Precipitous declines are the norm, not the exception.

 

Bengie Molina is not a good baseball player, will not become one soon, and should not be treated like one.

 

If you want to say Wells and Soto is a better option than Barrett and Pierre, that could be defensible. But bringing Molina into the discussion is not.

[CuseCubFan69]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

I don't see Toronto wanting Izturis back. I think it would take 2 very good pitching prospects and Pie.

[baseball7897]

The Cubs would be improving their team by adding Wells, then signing Bengie. Bengie wont post a high OBP, but he will hit around .275 and drive in 60 runs a year. His ability to call a game behind the plate, and his ability to play excellent defense is why I want him on the Cubs next year.

 

He's gotten progressively worse in the field each of the last three seasons... with this season coming in at eight runs below average.

 

Added to the fact that his only offensive advantage over Blanco is about 15 points of OBP, and you have a no-offense/no-defense waste of a roster spot and about 8 million bucks.

 

And let's not forget the aging curve for catchers on the wrong side of thirty. Precipitous declines are the norm, not the exception.

 

Bengie Molina is not a good baseball player, will not become one soon, and should not be treated like one.

 

If you want to say Wells and Soto is a better option than Barrett and Pierre, that could be defensible. But bringing Molina into the discussion is not.

 

Bengie will not be making 8 million a year. He is making 4 million for the Blue Jays this year.

 

To say Bengie Molina is not a good baseball is crazy. He is batting .281 15HR 46RBI with a .315OBP for the Blue Jays this year. He won the gold glove in 02 and 03. I dont know about you, but I value a guy who can call a game and play excellent defense in a demanding position on the field.

Edited September 11, 2006 by baseball7897

[Rob]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

I don't see Toronto wanting Izturis back. I think it would take 2 very good pitching prospects and Pie.

 

Have you looked at their middle infield situation?

 

The Cubs have a bad middle infield, but Toronto's puts it to shame.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

The Cubs would be improving their team by adding Wells, then signing Bengie. Bengie wont post a high OBP, but he will hit around .275 and drive in 60 runs a year. His ability to call a game behind the plate, and his ability to play excellent defense is why I want him on the Cubs next year.

 

 

So, your real motivation for wanting to trade Barrett is to open a spot for Molina. While getting Wells would be nice, there are players that could be acquired who are likely equal to or better than Wells that wouldn't cost giving up one of the few bright spots on the team.

 

Barrett > Molina, so if I can improve another position like CF without given up Barrett, that is the better option.

[baseball7897]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

The Cubs would be improving their team by adding Wells, then signing Bengie. Bengie wont post a high OBP, but he will hit around .275 and drive in 60 runs a year. His ability to call a game behind the plate, and his ability to play excellent defense is why I want him on the Cubs next year.

 

 

So, your real motivation for wanting to trade Barrett is to open a spot for Molina. While getting Wells would be nice, there are players that could be acquired who are likely equal to or better than Wells that wouldn't cost giving up one of the few bright spots on the team.

 

Barrett > Molina, so if I can improve another position like CF without given up Barrett, that is the better option.

 

Vernon will put up better numbers than Barrett year after year. Then you would be adding Bengie, who will put up similiar numbers Barrett has every year.

[CuseCubFan69]

because it would be much, much cheaper for toronto..who has spent this year but has a tendency to drop payroll.

 

The word that I've heard is that Toronto is going to up their payroll in 2007.

 

$100 million is the current rumour.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love Wells... but he's not worth Barrett. Especially considering the fact we could probably get him for Izturis, Pie, and a live arm. Why give up one of the top players at his position for Wells when you can divest yourself of Izturis for the mere cost of an exceptionally talented, but far from sure thing prospect?

 

I don't see Toronto wanting Izturis back. I think it would take 2 very good pitching prospects and Pie.

 

Have you looked at their middle infield situation?

 

The Cubs have a bad middle infield, but Toronto's puts it to shame.

 

Hill is better than anything the Cubs have and he can play SS or 2B. Adams has struggled and McDonald is a below average player I grant you but getting Izturis wouldn't be a thing Toronto would do to make themselves better. Remember, Riccardi is way more of a OBP guy than Hendry is.

[Rob]

Bengie will not be making 8 million a year. He is making 4 million for the Blue Jays this year.

 

To say Bengie Molina is not a good baseball is crazy. He is batting .281 15HR 46RBI with a .315OBP for the Blue Jays this year. He won the gold glove in 02 and 03. I dont know about you, but I value a guy who can call a game, and play excellent defense in a demanding position on the field.

 

You're right. I forgot to check his contract status... it's a 7.5 million dollar option that'll be declined. He'll probably make about 5. Either way, it's not an insignificant amount.

 

In 2002 and 2003 Bengie may have deserved a gold glove. I've got him coming in at 12 runs over average each year.

 

2004 he comes in at three below. Yeah, that looks like it might be a statistical anomaly... a sample size issue or something. He had done well in the prior seasons.

 

2005 he comes in at four below. It certainly decreases the odds that both years are anomalous.

 

2006 as we've established puts him at eight below average. The pattern has been irrefutably established. He is no longer an above average defensive catcher... and he's getting worse at an alarming rate.

 

And those offensive numbers you posted are thoroughly unimpressive. The only reason he's amassed 15 HR and 46 RBI is that he's been trotted out there for 384 at bats.

 

If Henry Blanco had the same number of at bats this year, he'd have 12 HR and 62 RBI. Playing time isn't the same thing as production... and his .315 OBP is not acceptible production... at least not on an offensive squad as weak as the Cubs already are. Maybe the Red Sox could hide a guy like him in the lineup... but the Cubs can't afford the downgrade.

 

The only argument you've made that I can't refute with numbers is his ability to call a game. And you've got nothing to back up that claim either.

[baseball7897]

Bengie will not be making 8 million a year. He is making 4 million for the Blue Jays this year.

 

To say Bengie Molina is not a good baseball is crazy. He is batting .281 15HR 46RBI with a .315OBP for the Blue Jays this year. He won the gold glove in 02 and 03. I dont know about you, but I value a guy who can call a game, and play excellent defense in a demanding position on the field.

 

You're right. I forgot to check his contract status... it's a 7.5 million dollar option that'll be declined. He'll probably make about 5. Either way, it's not an insignificant amount.

 

In 2002 and 2003 Bengie may have deserved a gold glove. I've got him coming in at 12 runs over average each year.

 

2004 he comes in at three below. Yeah, that looks like it might be a statistical anomaly... a sample size issue or something. He had done well in the prior seasons.

 

2005 he comes in at four below. It certainly decreases the odds that both years are anomalous.

 

2006 as we've established puts him at eight below average. The pattern has been irrefutably established. He is not longer an above average defensive catcher... and he's getting worse at an alarming rate.

 

And those offensive numbers you posted are thoroughly unimpressive. The only reason he's amassed 15 HR and 46 RBI is that he's been trotted out there for 384 at bats.

 

If Henry Blanco had the same number of at bats this year, he'd have 12 HR and 62 RBI. Playing time isn't the same thing as production... and his .315 OBP is not acceptible production... at least not on an offensive squad as weak as the Cubs already are. Maybe the Red Sox could hide a guy like him in the lineup... but the Cubs can't afford the downgrade.

 

The only argument you've made that I can't refute with numbers is his ability to call a game. And you've got nothing to back up that claim either.

 

162 game average for Bengie Molina: .273 Average 15HR 72RBI .320OBP.

 

162 game average for Barrett: .263 Average 14HR 64RBI .320OBP

 

Very similiar production. One thing Bengie has an advantage over Barrett is his ability to call a game behind the plate. Bengie has the reputation around the league for being one of the best game callers behind the plate. I like a backstop of Molina and Blanco for the 07 Cubs.

 

Hendry better be looking to add more pitching depth to this club next year. You win with pitching and defense. If the Cubs were to get Bengie and Wells, they would have one the best up the middle defenses in the league.