Someone wanna tell me that you still have faith in Demspter?

[Soriano12]

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3867/801/400/the_demps.jpg

[Careless]

Dempster   2006    Career
ERA        4.45     4.79
WHIP       1.52     1.55
BAA        .260     .268
K/9        7.75     7.41
K/BB       1.69     1.57

 

That's not entirely fair at all and you know it. Dempster wasn't a closer his whole career.

 

but he's been a pitcher his whole career. and not a very good one. i don't know why people expect some miraculous turnaround out of a guy becaues he's now pitching one inning instead of five. it's still the same pitcher.

Well you'd expect some improvement from a starter going to relieving. This would be a regresison, essentially. But not a big/surprising one.

[Bote McBoteface]

Guys, you're being stupid. When a closer who is used to regular work does not get regular work they tend to struggle. When Dempster gets regular work, such as last season and the beginning of this season, he is lights out.

 

There are alot of things that need to be fixed this offseason, Dempster at closer is not one of them.

[frostwyrm]

And this is yet another great example of why you never, ever, never give big money and guaranteed years to ANY reliever after one good year.

 

Did I mention ever?

And don't forget Eyre and Howry are only one third of the way through their contracts, so there's plenty of time for those deals to go sour too.

[cheapseats]

Guys, you're being stupid. When a closer who is used to regular work does not get regular work they tend to struggle. When Dempster gets regular work, such as last season and the beginning of this season, he is lights out.

 

There are alot of things that need to be fixed this offseason, Dempster at closer is not one of them.

 

SEASON IP H BB SO SV BLSV ERA

2004 82.0 72 14 69 25 9 2.63

2006 62.2 63 32 54 24 7 4.45

 

If the "closer" position needed to be replaced in 2005, in needs to be replaced in 2007 as well.

[Sammy Sofa]

Or, as it was said, you get the guy working consistently on a team that isn't beyond horrible. I'm not saying he's even one of the best closers out there, far from it, but I think he's very workable in that position when scheduled correctly. Every time he has a stretch where he doesn't pitch for at least 5 games, he stinks it up for a few games. When he's used on a regular basis, he gets the job done.

 

I don't think he's the end-all be-all in terms of closers for the Cubs, now or anytime. I simply think that if you get a manager that knows when and how to use him, even when the team is in the toilet, you'd see much more consistent success like we did last year and the first part of this year.

[Wheelimus]

Heh, JoBo has been a complete waste to the Marlins!

 

Seriously though, I don't think it's time to dump Dempster simply becuase nobody is going to take the contract at this point and he's got the no trade. Am I entirely confident in him as a closer in 2007? No. But I don't think I have to be. If he falters, Howry, Eyre, heck, even Wuertz could step in. Kerry Wood is the darkhorse.

 

Has anyone ever looked at how closers performed on bad teams in the past? The inactivity has got to factor in.

[Sammy Sofa]

Heh, JoBo has been a complete waste to the Marlins!

 

Seriously though, I don't think it's time to dump Dempster simply becuase nobody is going to take the contract at this point and he's got the no trade. Am I entirely confident in him as a closer in 2007? No. But I don't think I have to be. If he falters, Howry, Eyre, heck, even Wuertz could step in. Kerry Wood is the darkhorse.

 

Has anyone ever looked at how closers performed on bad teams in the past? The inactivity has got to factor in.

 

I couldn't agree more with everything in this post.

[soapy]

Michael Wuertz, please.

[Wheelimus]

And even if you remove Ryan from the closers role, if he's pitching in the 7th inning and doing well, you're going to have a tradeable chip. Right now I think we could move him, but for a mid-level prospect and us eating cash. If he can get back into it with regular work, you might get a major league ready player in exchange.

[CuseCubFan69]

Heh, JoBo has been a complete waste to the Marlins!

 

Seriously though, I don't think it's time to dump Dempster simply becuase nobody is going to take the contract at this point and he's got the no trade. Am I entirely confident in him as a closer in 2007? No. But I don't think I have to be. If he falters, Howry, Eyre, heck, even Wuertz could step in. Kerry Wood is the darkhorse.

 

Has anyone ever looked at how closers performed on bad teams in the past? The inactivity has got to factor in.

 

I couldn't agree more with everything in this post.

 

I agree and the inconsistant work is tough for some pitchers IMO. I think Dempster is fine and will have a decent 2007 if the Cubs are in contention for any type of playoff.

[Guest]

Guys, you're being stupid. When a closer who is used to regular work does not get regular work they tend to struggle. When Dempster gets regular work, such as last season and the beginning of this season, he is lights out.

 

There are alot of things that need to be fixed this offseason, Dempster at closer is not one of them.

 

SEASON IP H BB SO SV BLSV ERA

2004 82.0 72 14 69 25 9 2.63

2006 62.2 63 32 54 24 7 4.45

 

If the "closer" position needed to be replaced in 2005, in needs to be replaced in 2007 as well.

Hey! Hawkins just didn't have the mentality to close, man!

[stitchface]

I think Dempster can be useful but I would prefer a different closer - or perhaps only use him in 2 or 3 run closing situations or favorable matchups.

[frostwyrm]

Dempster is untradeable because of his contract. I say let Demp/Eyre/Howry do a closer by committee thing in April/May and hope someone steps up and claims the job before June. That's not a very appealing scenario but I can't think of anything better.

[Jehrico]

Dempster   2006    Career
ERA        4.45     4.79
WHIP       1.52     1.55
BAA        .260     .268
K/9        7.75     7.41
K/BB       1.69     1.57

 

That's not entirely fair at all and you know it. Dempster wasn't a closer his whole career.

 

but he's been a pitcher his whole career. and not a very good one. i don't know why people expect some miraculous turnaround out of a guy becaues he's now pitching one inning instead of five. it's still the same pitcher.

I think everyone knows that right now, he's not pitching close to that. Other than one other funky two week stretch earlier in the year, he's pitched much better than that.

 

Dempster's problem isn't that he's good enough...it's that he gets in these funks that jump his stats up that he can't seem to get out of quickly.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Michael Wuertz, please.

 

Exactly.

[Laura]

Guys, you're being stupid. When a closer who is used to regular work does not get regular work they tend to struggle. When Dempster gets regular work, such as last season and the beginning of this season, he is lights out.

 

There are alot of things that need to be fixed this offseason, Dempster at closer is not one of them.

 

SEASON IP H BB SO SV BLSV ERA

2004 82.0 72 14 69 25 9 2.63

2006 62.2 63 32 54 24 7 4.45

 

If the "closer" position needed to be replaced in 2005, in needs to be replaced in 2007 as well.

Hey! Hawkins just didn't have the mentality to close, man!

 

I guess all the old threads debating this have disappeared.

 

Closing may not affect 95% of all relievers. Unfortunately, Hawkins fell into that 5% that it did affect. That wasn't a completely unforeseen result by some posters here.

 

Perhaps he had an undisclosed injury. Who knows? He wasn't an effective closer. We can debate his mentality from here to next year ... again ... but I'm not sure what good that does now.

[NCCubFan]

I guess all the old threads debating this have disappeared.

 

Closing may not affect 95% of all relievers. Unfortunately, Hawkins fell into that 5% that it did affect. That wasn't a completely unforeseen result by some posters here.

 

Perhaps he had an undisclosed injury. Who knows? He wasn't an effective closer. We can debate his mentality from here to next year ... again ... but I'm not sure what good that does now.

I think Mel Rojas was very similar. He was a very good setup man for the Expos, but once he signed the big contract with the Cubs to be a closer, he sucked.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Dempster   2006    Career
ERA        4.45     4.79
WHIP       1.52     1.55
BAA        .260     .268
K/9        7.75     7.41
K/BB       1.69     1.57

 

To be fair there is a precedent of mediocre starters becoming lights out closers. Mariano Rivera, Eric Gagne, etc...

 

I'm not saying Dempster was a great gamble but it wasn't crazy.

[soccer10k]

Dempster   2006    Career
ERA        4.45     4.79
WHIP       1.52     1.55
BAA        .260     .268
K/9        7.75     7.41
K/BB       1.69     1.57

 

That's not entirely fair at all and you know it. Dempster wasn't a closer his whole career.

 

but he's been a pitcher his whole career. and not a very good one. i don't know why people expect some miraculous turnaround out of a guy becaues he's now pitching one inning instead of five. it's still the same pitcher.

 

http://espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/metro_eric_gagne.jpg

 

Obviously I realize that Gagne is an outlier but look at his career stats. He was average at best as a starter but became one of the best closers in the game. Not everybody is going to be Eric Gagne but it isn't out of the realm of possibility for a mediocre starter to become a solid reliever/closer.