Nefi Gone!! Neifi to Detroit for C Chris Robinson (high-A)

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I think Jacques could be tradeable, too. He's due to make $5MM in 07 and $4MM in 08. If you can move him, that money is freed up to help bring in the slugging corner OF. I'm plenty comfortable with Murton (perhaps with a platoon partner) for the other corner OF spot. We need one slugging corner OF, but two is a luxury and we have other needs.

 

Besides, I like Murton, he's already perfectly acceptable in the BA and OBP area. Just needs to pump up the SLG some and he'll be fine.

[goonys evil twin]

two pages ago there was a discussion about how GM's don't speak the truth about the players they acquire. the only thing we have to go on to determine Hendry's opinion of any player is what he says. taking both of these as givens, it is impossible to come to the bolded conclusion with the degree of certainty in which you state it.

 

The difference is there is repeated evidence that he likes Izturis. The comparison to a GM that traded for and complimented Neifi is that the team was desperate to deal for middle infield help. The Cubs weren't desperate to make a deal when they got Izturis, they weren't desperate for middle infield help either. But more importantly, Hendry has talked ad nauseam about his desire for ball catchers and he has shown repeatedly how much he likes really bad hitters. It's not just a matter of him saying he likes the guy, it's that the player so closely resembles the typical player that Hendry likes.

[cubfan1955]

two pages ago there was a discussion about how GM's don't speak the truth about the players they acquire. the only thing we have to go on to determine Hendry's opinion of any player is what he says. taking both of these as givens, it is impossible to come to the bolded conclusion with the degree of certainty in which you state it.

No, I don't think Hendry would stand on the rooftops and shout how a player he traded for sucks but...you can tell just by listening to him that he is real proud of himself for landing Izturis. Plus he has that "fox in the henhouse" look on his face when he talks about Izturis. Too bad he'll wake up and realize he's in the outhouse instead of the henhouse soon.

[goonys evil twin]

I think Jacques could be tradeable, too. He's due to make $5MM in 07 and $4MM in 08. If you can move him, that money is freed up to help bring in the slugging corner OF.

 

The problem isn't so much finding a new home for Jacque, but finding a way to convince Hendry to deal him. Jim isn't going to care that JJ has a crippling .312 OBP. He isn't going to care that he has a 632 OPS since the all star break. Jim is going to see .275 and 20+ homers and think he's got exactly what he wants.

[cubweiser03]

I think it's totally awesome that we traded Neifi for this guy:

 

http://images.jambase.com/bands/blackcrowes/cook/chris.jpg

If he can hit like he can sing, I think we're golden. :D BTW, the Black Crowes are awesome.

 

Chris Robinson is our 'Remedy' for Neifi.

 

OMG dudes, this is so awesome. Ive been out of the loop for the last 2 days and today i decided to read the tribs hardcopy of the newspaper, which i dont hardly read anymore. I saw the article about Neifi being traded and i gasped.

 

Its good to be a Cubs fan again!

[gflore34]

Set back and watch Leyland utilize what Neifi brings to the table in the right way.

[A New Era]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

[goonys evil twin]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

 

Okay, maybe he isn't that young. How about a younger Neifi?

Career

CI .261/.295/.338 (OPS+ of 69)

NP .270/.301/.380 (OPS+ of 65)

2006

CI .249/.302/.328

NP .254/.266/.343

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

 

No offense, but Izturis sucks. Plain and simple.

[jjgman21]

two pages ago there was a discussion about how GM's don't speak the truth about the players they acquire. the only thing we have to go on to determine Hendry's opinion of any player is what he says. taking both of these as givens, it is impossible to come to the bolded conclusion with the degree of certainty in which you state it.

 

The difference is there is repeated evidence that he likes Izturis. The comparison to a GM that traded for and complimented Neifi is that the team was desperate to deal for middle infield help. The Cubs weren't desperate to make a deal when they got Izturis, they weren't desperate for middle infield help either. But more importantly, Hendry has talked ad nauseam about his desire for ball catchers and he has shown repeatedly how much he likes really bad hitters. It's not just a matter of him saying he likes the guy, it's that the player so closely resembles the typical player that Hendry likes.

 

preface - Jim Hendry's moves over the past year have infuriated me. I do not support him continuing as GM of the Cubs. the below statements are strictly meant to refute the notion that Hendry's statements regarding Izturis should be taken as truth into his mindset and the misnomer that Izturis is the type of player Hendry has sought and/or will seek.

 

two or three days of interviews regarding the trade of Greg Maddux does not equal repeated evidence, talk ad nauseam, etc. you think Dombrowski's statements are absurd regarding trading for Neifi, imagine how much he would be talking up Neifi if he just traded a HOFer and Tigers' fan favorite.

 

I hate the trade for Izturis, but have no idea how you don't see Hendry's words and actions as not containing a huge amount of puffing. as a couple other posters talked about earlier, three days ago you could substitute Neifi's name into your statement above.

 

Hendry's player acquisition history with the Cubs has been so here and there, I don't know how anyone can say any player resembles the 'typical player that Hendry likes.' Hendry's first player acquisition after becoming asst. GM was Mark Bellhorn. his second was Agone at a time when the Cubs were desperate for a shortstop...any shortstop. his third was Moises and he jettisoned a Jones-esque player in Michael Tucker the same day. he's largely responsible for the acquisition of McGriff right before he became GM. Damian Miller, Karros/Grudz, Ramirez, Lofton, Barrett, Lee, Walker, Nomar. what is 'typical' about any of these guys?

 

a little PR chatter to justify a trade, and suddenly Neifi Perez and Cesar Izturis are the "typical" guy that Hendry values? I didn't like his failure to get a better bat last offseason, but Izturis is the first player that you call the "typical player that Hendry likes" that he has ever even hinted will be a starter going into the season or after he is acquired, and the circumstances of his acquistion are vastly different that all the other players.

 

he does seem to like aggressive hitters, but that doesn't mean he likes players who can't hit for any power or can't get on base. after 04-05, he was too desperate for a 'typical leadoff hitter,' perhaps realizing the failure of his manager to make out a lineup card. he seems to like a versatile infielder and a speed guy off the bench. injuries have caused many of these players to be on the field more than necessary, and you are using a statement he previously used, which was also nothing other than stupid PR spin, to decontextualize everything. afterall, if he liked guys who can catch the ball, his biggest target last offseason would not have been Rafael Furcal.

 

he's not going to say "we really would've liked better in the outfield than Jones, but had a difficult time swinging a deal we thought was beneficial to the organization as a whole, and we took on a three year deal even though similar players are getting 2 year deals because we need a lefty, we're between a rock and a hard place and have the payroll to absorb his contract down the road." you have no problem not taking Hendry's word when he talks about Cub injuries, but you refuse to take anything he says regarding player acquisition with even the tiniest grain of salt.

[frostwyrm]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

Let's call him "less durable Neifi".

[Derwood]

Crap, does this mean Detroit won't win the WS this year?

[Buford T Justice]

No they will win NEIFI! will save them

[goonys evil twin]

two or three days of interviews regarding the trade of Greg Maddux does not equal repeated evidence, talk ad nauseam, etc.

 

I hate the trade for Izturis, but have no idea how you don't see Hendry's words and actions as not containing a huge amount of puffing.

 

Hendry's player acquisition history with the Cubs has been so here and there, I don't know how anyone can say any player resembles the 'typical player that Hendry likes.'

 

Your first sentence makes no sense to me.

 

I think it's rather easy to find the typical player Hendry likes.

 

Hendry has repeated over and over how important he thinks defense is, and how unimportant he thinks offensive production (OBP/SLG) is. He likes guys who can catch the ball. Moises Alou is a completely different situation (a - he signed when MacPhail was GM, b- he's a corner OF so Hendry looks at the more tradition need for power out there). CI is an all glove no stick SS who won a Gold Glove, was an All Star and has been touted by many scouts for doing things like "driving in runs with his glove". He's also got some mind numbingly stupid stat like leading the league in hits for 2 months, and that is exactly the kind of BS stats Hendry uses to prop up players he likes.

 

It's clear to me that Hendry likes Izturis and would be more than happy to have him start at SS. I would be shocked if he is moved within the next year. You don't think so? Fine, but you can't tell me I can't have that opinion of the guy. I'm pretty comfortable in my ability to read Jim Hendry. He doesn't acquire guys like Jones and Izturis with the thought of moving them later on. He gets them because that's exactly what he's look for.

[neely crenshaw]

aren't injuries after the dealine GREAT! teams need to deal but only guys like neifi cam get through...watch hendry will spin signing him to the big contract as a way to be able to get him through waivers because no one would be stupid enough to claim that contract!

sorry i doubted you jim!

[jjgman21]

 

Your first sentence makes no sense to me.

 

Hendry had to justify the Hendry trade so he puffed Izturis for a couple days. I haven't heard many (any?) statements from the front office about Izturis after the first couple days he was acquired. its not repeated. he's not calling press conferences and making appearances to state how grand Izturis is.

 

I think it's rather easy to find the typical player Hendry likes.

 

Hendry has repeated over and over how important he thinks defense is, and how unimportant he thinks offensive production (OBP/SLG) is.

 

I think you take his statements and spin them to bash him no matter what he says. what Hendry did is no different than what Dombrowski did. as mentioned above, when he gets a sub-par player, he has to spin it for PR purposes. hence statements like 'we like players who can catch the ball' or 'we value a lefty starter going every fifth day' or 'we like players who hit their way on.' I would like him to not get players he has to spin into likeability, but I don't think he purposefully seeks out these players like you are saying he does.

 

Moises Alou is a completely different situation (a - he signed when MacPhail was GM,

 

you know, it's funny because I came around to attributing the Cubs transactions while Hendry was only asst GM to Hendry because of your rants regarding the Sosa extension and Willis trade.

 

make up your mind on the timing of Hendry taking over personnel descisions so we have a mutual basis for discussion please.

 

CI is an all glove no stick SS who won a Gold Glove, was an All Star and has been touted by many scouts for doing things like "driving in runs with his glove". He's also got some mind numbingly stupid stat like leading the league in hits for 2 months, and that is exactly the kind of BS stats Hendry uses to prop up players he acquires.

 

fixed.

 

It's clear to me that Hendry likes Izturis and would be more than happy to have him start at SS. I would be shocked if he is moved within the next year. You don't think so? Fine, but you can't tell me I can't have that opinion of the guy.

 

I don't think there is enough evidence to persuade anyone convincingly either way, especially in light of the Perez trade. the burden of proof simply hasn't been met, especially when the primary evidence is statements by Jim Hendry, all of which should be taken with a grain of salt. look back to his statements about the acquisition of Damian Miller and Michael Barrett. they get Miller and he talked about how he likes good signal callers and defensive catchers. they get Barrett and he talked about the offensive upside. there's no consistency, other than spinning the player to be a great acquisition. I personally think he doesn't have the wrong philosophy, his problem is he doesn't have any philosophy other than lots of power pitching. that's what the evidence suggests more than anything else.

 

I'm pretty comfortable in my ability to read Jim Hendry. He doesn't acquire guys like Jones and Izturis with the thought of moving them later on. He gets them because that's exactly what he's look for.

 

...but he acquires Lee, Aram, Nomar, Barrett etc. only by fluke or luck, not because that was what he was looking for. yeah yeah yeah. heard it all before.

 

I'm pretty comfortable in my ability to spot when criticism goes from justified to hyperbolic.

[A New Era]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

Let's call him "less durable Neifi".

 

I'd personally like to call him a more patient, higher ceiling, younger, better hitter, better defender. I wouldn't call him "neifi" anything. Neifi is one of the worlds 11 worse offensive baseball players ever.

 

Iztirus OBP is at .309 right now which probably has him far away from anyone in the top 10 (unlike neifi) and while I realize that isn't good. Izturis has shown ability to have average OBP for a SS while Neifi never has.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Izturis's OBP is at 302 right now and would be 20th if he had enough PAs to qualify, trailing the likes of Jack Wilson and Royce Clayton. That's not an average OBP for a SS. The only thing stopping Izturis from joining Neifi as one of the worst players is time. He's well on his way there.

[cubfan1955]

I must be missing something when I look at Izturis. His stats are almost identical to Neifis both career wise and for the season. And he's younger, which for a player that sucks means he has more years left to suck than Neifi. There is just absolutely no upside that I can see to having Izturis. The Maddux deal would have been better for the Cubs if they had just given Maddux to the Dodgers.

 

Why Hendry traded for a guy that can't hit and can't get on base to play for a team that can't hit, can't get base runners on, and can't score is a mystery to me.

[soccer10k]

I must be missing something when I look at Izturis. His stats are almost identical to Neifis both career wise and for the season. And he's younger, which for a player that sucks means he has more years left to suck than Neifi. There is just absolutely no upside that I can see to having Izturis. The Maddux deal would have been better for the Cubs if they had just given Maddux to the Dodgers.

 

Why Hendry traded for a guy that can't hit and can't get on base to play for a team that can't hit, can't get base runners on, and can't score is a mystery to me.

 

He won a Gold Glove.

[UBlink]

I must be missing something when I look at Izturis. His stats are almost identical to Neifis both career wise and for the season. And he's younger, which for a player that sucks means he has more years left to suck than Neifi. There is just absolutely no upside that I can see to having Izturis. The Maddux deal would have been better for the Cubs if they had just given Maddux to the Dodgers.

 

Why Hendry traded for a guy that can't hit and can't get on base to play for a team that can't hit, can't get base runners on, and can't score is a mystery to me.

 

He won a Gold Glove.

 

And somehow he produces RBI's with that gold glove. :?:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I must be missing something when I look at Izturis. His stats are almost identical to Neifis both career wise and for the season. And he's younger, which for a player that sucks means he has more years left to suck than Neifi. There is just absolutely no upside that I can see to having Izturis. The Maddux deal would have been better for the Cubs if they had just given Maddux to the Dodgers.

 

Why Hendry traded for a guy that can't hit and can't get on base to play for a team that can't hit, can't get base runners on, and can't score is a mystery to me.

 

He won a Gold Glove.

 

And somehow he produces RBI's with that gold glove. :?:

 

Not hard to do when you hit 350 with that glove.

[badger1679666666]

Izturis has won a gold glove and made the all star team once and Hendry thinks he pulled a coup by getting him. He ain't going anywhere.

 

I don't think Hendry views Izturis as untouchable. I think he'd go in the right deal.

 

Yeah, I think there are other GMs who think as highly of Izturis as Hendry. I'm holding out hope that he is traded to one of those teams for a legitimate major league player, and not another young Neifi.

 

Will people get off this *#%$ "young neifi". Izturis isn't a "young neifi" ok. Plain and simple. Give the guy a chance to rebound from his injury.

 

Okay, maybe he isn't that young. How about a younger Neifi?

Career

CI .261/.295/.338 (OPS+ of 69)

NP .270/.301/.380 (OPS+ of 65)

2006

CI .249/.302/.328

NP .254/.266/.343

 

You shouldn't let facts and stats get in the way of gut feelings.

[A New Era]

Izturis's OBP is at 302 right now and would be 20th if he had enough PAs to qualify, trailing the likes of Jack Wilson and Royce Clayton. That's not an average OBP for a SS. The only thing stopping Izturis from joining Neifi as one of the worst players is time. He's well on his way there.

 

He could also be on his way to an average OBP of .330. What he had in '04 and in '05 until he got injured. I'll take the wait and see approach, and judge him at the end of '07. Or atleast until mid '07 before I start jumping on his case calling him "young neifi". It's ridiculous.

[goonys evil twin]

Izturis's OBP is at 302 right now and would be 20th if he had enough PAs to qualify, trailing the likes of Jack Wilson and Royce Clayton. That's not an average OBP for a SS. The only thing stopping Izturis from joining Neifi as one of the worst players is time. He's well on his way there.

 

He could also be on his way to an average OBP of .330. What he had in '04 and in '05 until he got injured. I'll take the wait and see approach, and judge him at the end of '07. Or atleast until mid '07 before I start jumping on his case calling him "young neifi". It's ridiculous.

 

It would be ridiculous to calling Chase Utley a young Neifi. It's not ridiculous to call Cesar Izturis a young Neifi.