Nefi Gone!! Neifi to Detroit for C Chris Robinson (high-A)

[badger1679666666]

He's actually a younger more expensive neifi.

 

:shock:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Izturis's OBP is at 302 right now and would be 20th if he had enough PAs to qualify, trailing the likes of Jack Wilson and Royce Clayton. That's not an average OBP for a SS. The only thing stopping Izturis from joining Neifi as one of the worst players is time. He's well on his way there.

 

He could also be on his way to an average OBP of .330. What he had in '04 and in '05 until he got injured. I'll take the wait and see approach, and judge him at the end of '07. Or atleast until mid '07 before I start jumping on his case calling him "young neifi". It's ridiculous.

 

Wait and see, and you'll get more of the same. He was at 302 with the Dodgers and 292 with the Cubs (now below 300 for the season). That is not on his way to 330. There is absolutely nothing about his career that suggests we're destined to see a dramatic increase in the numbers we are seeing from him. 330 appears to be the exception, not the expected. I cannot believe that you think it's ridiculous that people are grounded in thinking that Cesar is not due to become a good offensive player.

[A New Era]

Izturis's OBP is at 302 right now and would be 20th if he had enough PAs to qualify, trailing the likes of Jack Wilson and Royce Clayton. That's not an average OBP for a SS. The only thing stopping Izturis from joining Neifi as one of the worst players is time. He's well on his way there.

 

He could also be on his way to an average OBP of .330. What he had in '04 and in '05 until he got injured. I'll take the wait and see approach, and judge him at the end of '07. Or atleast until mid '07 before I start jumping on his case calling him "young neifi". It's ridiculous.

 

Wait and see, and you'll get more of the same. He was at 302 with the Dodgers and 292 with the Cubs (now below 300 for the season). That is not on his way to 330. There is absolutely nothing about his career that suggests we're destined to see a dramatic increase in the numbers we are seeing from him. 330 appears to be the exception, not the expected. I cannot believe that you think it's ridiculous that people are grounded in thinking that Cesar is not due to become a good offensive player.

 

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP. But not only that. But because he swung into DP on the first pitch, never worked the count, robbed steals from pierre when pierre got good jumps, bunted to end a game, and many MANY other incredibly stupid plays. He hurts us even more than his #'s suggest. And I haven't seen Izturis do anything that stupid yet. Infact I have seen him be very patient, which in itself is an improvement over Neifi because you make the OP throw more pitches. And I still think he can improve his OBP. Ok maybe not up to .330. But deffinatly more than Neifi ever could.

 

If we could trade Izturis and get rid of his contract I will be happy. I don't think he's the best SS available. But I'd certainly be happier to see him out there than Neifi every damn day. I'm just arguing the fact that he doesn't deserve to be called Neifi. Because Neifi did so much more to hurt this team than Izturis ever could.

[goonys evil twin]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

[A New Era]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest. How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year? How often do you see him swinging away when the runner infront of him gets a stellar jump? How many pitches per plate appearance? He sucks offensively right now yes. Is he Neifi? God no.

[goonys evil twin]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

[CubColtPacer]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest. How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year? How often do you see him swinging away when the runner infront of him gets a stellar jump? How many pitches per plate appearance? He sucks offensively right now yes. Is he Neifi? God no.

 

I will tell you before others do that his P/PA is pretty low, but I do agree with you that he is very patient when he gets deeper in the count. Izturis has a pretty good eye for the strike zone-he just doesn't like to take very many strikes, and so will put many pitches into play early in the count. He'll usually look at pitches out of the strike zone though (this is based on the limited look we've seen him so far-it could either be validated or softened as we see him in some more situations, but so far that is my impression)

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest. How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year? How often do you see him swinging away when the runner infront of him gets a stellar jump? How many pitches per plate appearance? He sucks offensively right now yes. Is he Neifi? God no.

 

Can you answer those questions?

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

 

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest. How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year? How often do you see him swinging away when the runner infront of him gets a stellar jump? How many pitches per plate appearance? He sucks offensively right now yes. Is he Neifi? God no.

 

I will tell you before others do that his P/PA is pretty low, but I do agree with you that he is very patient when he gets deeper in the count. Izturis has a pretty good eye for the strike zone-he just doesn't like to take very many strikes, and so will put many pitches into play early in the count. He'll usually look at pitches out of the strike zone though (this is based on the limited look we've seen him so far-it could either be validated or softened as we see him in some more situations, but so far that is my impression)

 

1. neifi=3.28 P/PA, cesar=3.38 P/PA

 

2. neifi grounds into a DP every 60 ABs, cesar grounds into one every 64 ABs.

 

3. neifi strikes out less.

 

the rest of what you said is typical anecdotal evidence given by people who like izturis for some reason, and is the exact reason why you can't trust what your eyes see much of the time in baseball.

 

truly, "he is very patient when he gets deeper in the count" is such a meaningless thought, i doubt even you yourself know what you meant by it. check out #1 and #3, neifi strikes out less and sees roughly the same amount of pitches per PA in his career.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

 

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

[goonys evil twin]

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

 

Yes, I think an otherwise solid lineup can hide such a bad hitter. But part of the problem with Izturis is his presence, and cost, will probably mean fewer improvements elsewhere. And the Cubs are very far away from having 7 solid bats.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

 

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

 

I'd also hope like mad he could hit 290 or better because he does swing at everything. Hendry has his work cut out for him and since he has signed that extension he had better get it right this time.

[Banedon]

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

 

Yes, I think an otherwise solid lineup can hide such a bad hitter. But part of the problem with Izturis is his presence, and cost, will probably mean fewer improvements elsewhere. And the Cubs are very far away from having 7 solid bats.

 

Not to mention he's batting 2nd....like Neifi was.

[CubColtPacer]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest. How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year? How often do you see him swinging away when the runner infront of him gets a stellar jump? How many pitches per plate appearance? He sucks offensively right now yes. Is he Neifi? God no.

 

I will tell you before others do that his P/PA is pretty low, but I do agree with you that he is very patient when he gets deeper in the count. Izturis has a pretty good eye for the strike zone-he just doesn't like to take very many strikes, and so will put many pitches into play early in the count. He'll usually look at pitches out of the strike zone though (this is based on the limited look we've seen him so far-it could either be validated or softened as we see him in some more situations, but so far that is my impression)

 

1. neifi=3.28 P/PA, cesar=3.38 P/PA

 

2. neifi grounds into a DP every 60 ABs, cesar grounds into one every 64 ABs.

 

3. neifi strikes out less.

 

the rest of what you said is typical anecdotal evidence given by people who like izturis for some reason, and is the exact reason why you can't trust what your eyes see much of the time in baseball.

 

truly, "he is very patient when he gets deeper in the count" is such a meaningless thought, i doubt even you yourself know what you meant by it. check out #1 and #3, neifi strikes out less and sees roughly the same amount of pitches per PA in his career.

 

I am taking his being patient as he gets deeper in the count from 2 things. First is you're right, I've watched him as he gets deep in the count and he's taken many pitches that were just off the plate. This shows up in the stats to show his higher BB/PA with the Cubs than his P/PA would suggest. That's why even though Neifi's P/PA and Izturis's are very similar, their walk totals with the Cubs are like this:

 

Neifi: 5 BB's in 234 PA's

Izturis: 5 BB's in 60 PA's

 

Izturis may not walk a great deal, but he walks more than his pitches per plate appearance would seem to indicate-and I think his approach deep in the count may have something to do with that, just like his approach early in the count means that he won't walk a huge amount.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

 

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

 

I'd also hope like mad he could hit 290 or better because he does swing at everything. Hendry has his work cut out for him and since he has signed that extension he had better get it right this time.

 

he's the perfect type of hendry hitter. low strikeout total, low walk total.

 

you see, it's my hypothesis that hendry has tried to invent a philosphy much like that of moneyball, only, kind of the opposite.

 

hendry acquires guys with low walk and low strikeout totals, guys who "just put the ball in play". he thinks that the low strikeout totals will be enough to cause the team to score runs. however, what he has failed to research or understand is that high strikeout totals have a greater relation to runs scored than low strikeout totals.

 

putting the ball in play at any cost takes pressure off of pitchers and defenses, not the other way around. moreso than OBP, hendry has ignored SLG to the point of ridiculousness.

[cheapseats]

How many DP has Izturis grounded into this year, how many per year?

 

Since joining the Cubs, Cesar has hit into DP's in 42.9% of his opportunities to do so. That's not good.

 

He hit into 4.34 more DP's than the average player in 2005 at a rate of greater than 20%. He hit into 4.5 more Dp's than the average player in 2002 at a rate of 18.6%.

 

He did do better in 2003 and 2004, but over his career he's not been good at avoiding DP's.

 

From today's Baseball Prospectus:

 

Any lingering doubts Tigers fans may have had about their team fading down the stretch were put to rest when Detroit acquired Neifi Perez from the Cubs. We learn, once again, that a veteran player is always preferable to someone within an organization or someone from another organization that might be stuck there. Players with career EqAs of .219 don't grow on trees, you know.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it's ridiculous to call him neifi. End of story. We all hated Neifi but Neifi earned that by his horrid OBP.

 

And Izturis is very similarly OBP challenged. It's not ridiculous, it's quite accurate.

 

Yes but that's not all of my arguement. Please respond to the rest.

 

The only reason Izturis hasn't hurt the Cubs as much as Neifi yet is because he hasn't played as much. Give him 700 plate appearances next season and he'll do more damage, and cost twice as much.

 

I think a healthy Izturis with 7 solid bats would be good but I doubt this guy will stay healthy and we all know the Cubs are far from 7 solid bats.

 

i think a healthy izturis with 7 solid bats wouldn't hurt as much as with less than that amount of solid bats, but would be far from good.

 

izturis is tolerable if the rest of the lineup is good, that much is true.

 

I'd also hope like mad he could hit 290 or better because he does swing at everything. Hendry has his work cut out for him and since he has signed that extension he had better get it right this time.

 

he's the perfect type of hendry hitter. low strikeout total, low walk total.

 

you see, it's my hypothesis that hendry has tried to invent a philosphy much like that of moneyball, only, kind of the opposite.

 

hendry acquires guys with low walk and low strikeout totals, guys who "just put the ball in play". he thinks that the low strikeout totals will be enough to cause the team to score runs. however, what he has failed to research or understand is that high strikeout totals have a greater relation to runs scored than low strikeout totals.

 

putting the ball in play at any cost takes pressure off of pitchers and defenses, not the other way around. moreso than OBP, hendry has ignored SLG to the point of ridiculousness.

 

Hmmm...the anti-moneyballer eh? Does he bear any certain markings?

 

Yeah I know, 1973 was a long time ago and hopefully Mr. Hendry will learn to use all of his options the correct way and build a solid contending team.

[abuck1220]

wow, not even baker hit neifi lead off.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

wow, not even baker hit neifi lead off.

 

Sure, this season.

[YearofDaCubs]

No way, Neifi was leading off?!?!? And we thought Baker was bad, jeez.

[cheapseats]

wow, not even baker hit neifi lead off.

 

How soon we forget. :cry:

[Coach C]

I know I'm a little late, but thank goodness.

 

No more Neifi.