Uh Oh...Bill Simmons comments on Moneyball

[Magnetic Curses]

From Sports Guy's ESPN article ranking the AL teams:

 

"(By the way, I loved "Moneyball," but doesn't it take a hit in the historical sense because there were entire chapters devoted to Billy Beane's genius for coming up with guys like Scott Hatteberg, Jeremy Brown and Chad Bradford? Thank God for Nick Swisher -- he saved the book from retroactively ranking in the 90s on the Unintentional Comedy Scale. And frankly, there's still time.)"

 

--I'll sit back and wait for the board to go down due to all the angry responses to this comment.

 

 

 

moneyball was NOT about simply exploiting inconsistencies in the market of baseball. It WAS about OBP, and that it's undervalued. if teams had undervalued defense, he wouldn't have exploited THAT incosistency, because undervaluing defense is not really exploitable, defense isn't nearly as important as OBP. Billy Beane was able to find that the single most important conventional statistic in the game of baseball (also referred to as "outs NOT made") was also it's most ignored.

 

 

Sulley, what abou this quote from Beane from 2004?

 

"BB: Exactly, guys like Scottie Hatteberg. Now people are recognizing the value of that and they're paying for it. And if we're in a bidding war, we're going to lose that. So we have evolved. If you look at some of our first playoff teams, the `99 team that won 87 games, it was a power, on-base team. Now we're tops in the league in defense and pitching. For us, it's all about filling in on the backend and figuring out what people are undervaluing. You know, one day we're going to have a team with guys who steal 50 bases because people aren't paying for it. But it's all about wins. That's all that matters."

 

It certainly sounds like he has gone after some defense since it was undervalued, and would do the same thing with speed. Beane is willing to exploit any inconsistency in the market, not just OBP.

 

By the way, here's the link on that-it's about halfway down.

 

http://www.athleticsnation.com/story/2004/9/20/23544/2604

 

this is the same billy beane that will tell you, to this day, that it's impossible to compete with a smaller market, despite what the a's and other teams have done. in the first chapters of moneyball, it documents how beane would go around to GM meetings, winter meetings, etc. and say dishonest things to get what he wants.

 

billy beane is a businessman and will say anything to serve his purpose. you think a magician just gives out his tricks without profiting a little bit?

 

billy beane isn't ethical, but he's probably a genius.

[Banedon]

Give Bill some credit, he admits when he's wrong:

 

Q: You poked fun at "Moneyball" saying that all the players profiled (other than Nick Swisher) have been complete failures. Scott Hatteburg is hitting .325/.418/.498 for the Reds this year, making less than $1 million. Can't argue with those numbers at that salary, exactly the point of "Moneyball." Not everyone can have a $200 million payroll, or $120 (million) like the "tortured" Red Sox.

--Nick, Cincinnati

 

 

 

SG: Very good point. I haven't been following the National League for the same reasons that I don't follow the International League and the Pacific Coast League, so I didn't realize Hatteberg was having such a good season. Actually, so is Chad Bradford for the Mets. Just a little more research and I would have been right back in that thing. Look, don't forget that I'm an idiot. Don't forget this for a second.

[Caryatid]

This thread wasn't predictable or anything...

 

Hilarious.

 

what do you expect? you post a stupid article by a casual fan/writer and you get responses, some absurd, some intelligent.

 

you might as well have posted a link to an article by an amateur hyper-religious astronomer claiming that copernicus was an idiot and that the earth, in fact, is the center of the universe while using the "epicycle" argument to back his theory up.

 

also, dinosaurs did not exist, discuss.

 

Its exactly the response I expected, which is why I posted it. The quote was a cursory, fairly benign statement that was meant, at least in part, in jest. I wanted to see how far people would go in overreacting to it. It was good for a laugh.

[Andy]

Give Bill some credit, he admits when he's wrong:

 

Q: You poked fun at "Moneyball" saying that all the players profiled (other than Nick Swisher) have been complete failures. Scott Hatteburg is hitting .325/.418/.498 for the Reds this year, making less than $1 million. Can't argue with those numbers at that salary, exactly the point of "Moneyball." Not everyone can have a $200 million payroll, or $120 (million) like the "tortured" Red Sox.

--Nick, Cincinnati

 

 

 

SG: Very good point. I haven't been following the National League for the same reasons that I don't follow the International League and the Pacific Coast League, so I didn't realize Hatteberg was having such a good season. Actually, so is Chad Bradford for the Mets. Just a little more research and I would have been right back in that thing. Look, don't forget that I'm an idiot. Don't forget this for a second.

My first thought was that this was Rocket Sauce.

[Magnetic Curses]

This thread wasn't predictable or anything...

 

Hilarious.

 

what do you expect? you post a stupid article by a casual fan/writer and you get responses, some absurd, some intelligent.

 

you might as well have posted a link to an article by an amateur hyper-religious astronomer claiming that copernicus was an idiot and that the earth, in fact, is the center of the universe while using the "epicycle" argument to back his theory up.

 

also, dinosaurs did not exist, discuss.

 

Its exactly the response I expected, which is why I posted it. The quote was a cursory, fairly benign statement that was meant, at least in part, in jest. I wanted to see how far people would go in overreacting to it. It was good for a laugh.

 

this is a message board, isn't this the place to "overreact"? "overreacting" is what a message board is for.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This thread wasn't predictable or anything...

 

Hilarious.

 

what do you expect? you post a stupid article by a casual fan/writer and you get responses, some absurd, some intelligent.

 

you might as well have posted a link to an article by an amateur hyper-religious astronomer claiming that copernicus was an idiot and that the earth, in fact, is the center of the universe while using the "epicycle" argument to back his theory up.

 

also, dinosaurs did not exist, discuss.

 

Its exactly the response I expected, which is why I posted it. The quote was a cursory, fairly benign statement that was meant, at least in part, in jest. I wanted to see how far people would go in overreacting to it. It was good for a laugh.

 

So, you were trolling for a response. Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up.

[Caryatid]

This thread wasn't predictable or anything...

 

Hilarious.

 

what do you expect? you post a stupid article by a casual fan/writer and you get responses, some absurd, some intelligent.

 

you might as well have posted a link to an article by an amateur hyper-religious astronomer claiming that copernicus was an idiot and that the earth, in fact, is the center of the universe while using the "epicycle" argument to back his theory up.

 

also, dinosaurs did not exist, discuss.

 

Its exactly the response I expected, which is why I posted it. The quote was a cursory, fairly benign statement that was meant, at least in part, in jest. I wanted to see how far people would go in overreacting to it. It was good for a laugh.

 

So, you were trolling for a response. Ok, I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

Oh no, the "t" word. May the Gods of the internet strike me down.

 

Actually, I didn't comment in the thread-I wasn't looking for a fight. I actually thought it was a pretty dumb comment, too. But that's all it was-a throwaway comment from a sportswriter who admittedly didn't do any research.

 

I was having fun watching people overreact when their hero was even benignly criticized. There were no malicious intentions, nor was it an attempt to get into some kind of argument. It was all in good fun.

 

Too many people here need to take a xanax-this whole board is about a game, and far too often lately it seems that people are going a little overboard about it. In a season as horrible as this one has been, everybody needs to take a step back and ask themselves why they use their recreational time to watch the Cubs-this is all supposed to be fun. If the team isn't going to make it fun for me, I'm going to make it fun for myself.

[abuck1220]

lately it seems that people are going a little overboard about it.

 

says a person who started a thread only to get a rise out of people.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was having fun watching people overreact when their hero was even benignly criticized. There were no malicious intentions, nor was it an attempt to get into some kind of argument. It was all in good fun.

 

I'd bet more people get upset because people still don't understand that Billy Beane isn't a "hero" to most people who subscribe to what is described in the book. People get upset because there is so much misinterpretation that comes up everytime the word "Moneyball" is mentioned it's almost impossible to make a point.

[Caryatid]

lately it seems that people are going a little overboard about it.

 

says a person who started a thread only to get a rise out of people.

 

 

Yep-proof's in the thread, and your response. Call it an experiment.

 

Not sure if you had a point, there.

[Caryatid]

I was having fun watching people overreact when their hero was even benignly criticized. There were no malicious intentions, nor was it an attempt to get into some kind of argument. It was all in good fun.

 

I'd bet more people get upset because people still don't understand that Billy Beane isn't a "hero" to most people who subscribe to what is described in the book. People get upset because there is so much misinterpretation that comes up everytime the word "Moneyball" is mentioned it's almost impossible to make a point.

 

That's cool. Regardless of the reason, its still funny.

[abuck1220]

Not sure if you had a point, there.

 

says a person who started a thread only to get a rise out of people.

[Caryatid]

Not sure if you had a point, there.

 

says a person who started a thread only to get a rise out of people.

 

Ooooo...I have tasted my own medicine and it is bitter!

[Chocolate Milk]

Too many people here need to take a xanax-this whole board is about a game, and far too often lately it seems that people are going a little overboard about it. In a season as horrible as this one has been, everybody needs to take a step back and ask themselves why they use their recreational time to watch the Cubs-this is all supposed to be fun. If the team isn't going to make it fun for me, I'm going to make it fun for myself.

 

My eyes are brimming with tears.

[C.C.]

Too many people here need to take a xanax-this whole board is about a game, and far too often lately it seems that people are going a little overboard about it. In a season as horrible as this one has been, everybody needs to take a step back and ask themselves why they use their recreational time to watch the Cubs-this is all supposed to be fun. If the team isn't going to make it fun for me, I'm going to make it fun for myself.

 

My eyes are brimming with tears.

 

I wish I can say it's only a game! The Cubs are just to much part of my life for me not to take it seriously. I wish to god I can step back and not care about it, but I honestly can't. I know, I know I should get a life and I do have a life, but summer-time for me (as long as I can remember) has been about baseball as much as anything else. Damn my Father for bringing me to my first game at 5 years old!!!!!! :lol: