a day later....

[bring stone back]

I skipped a few pages, so pardon me if this was pointed out somewhere.

 

Izturis is horrible offensively. DEFENSE WAS NOT THIS TEAM'S PROBLEM.

 

Yet the naysayers are acting like Hendry had a list of people to choose from for Maddux. It's not like he said no to all these great players...he took what he could and that's that. Frankly, I'm just glad we got rid of Maddux....he's not good and he's using a valuable spot in the rotation we should be using to audition Hill, Marmol, etc.

 

I'll take Izturis over a couple of nice prospects in AA.

[YearofDaCubs]

I skipped a few pages, so pardon me if this was pointed out somewhere.

 

Izturis is horrible offensively. DEFENSE WAS NOT THIS TEAM'S PROBLEM.

Say that to Hendry who still thinks players that can catch the ball are the solution.

[1908]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

[bring stone back]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

Edited August 2, 2006 by bring stone back

[Geech]

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

That hardly justifies snarky responses.

[1908]

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

Yes, I said he is atrocious offensively at the moment. I never said the rest of that stuff. You're doing a fine job discrediting the argument I'm not making, though.

[bring stone back]

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

That hardly justifies snarky responses.

 

Define snarky.

[Geech]

Yet the naysayers are acting like Hendry had a list of people to choose from for Maddux. It's not like he said no to all these great players...he took what he could and that's that. Frankly, I'm just glad we got rid of Maddux....he's not good and he's using a valuable spot in the rotation we should be using to audition Hill, Marmol, etc.

 

I'll take Izturis over a couple of nice prospects in AA.

 

And people have been arguing that Izturis is simply wrong for this team. His negatives in the form of a bad contract and terrible hitting, outweigh his positives. It would have been better for the Cobs to simply let Maddux leave in free agency than to take on a redundant, problematic player.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Geech

[Ocu-Master]

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

That hardly justifies snarky responses.

 

Define snarky.

 

Snarky (adj): see: bring stone back

[Geech]

Define snarky.

Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

[bring stone back]

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

That hardly justifies snarky responses.

 

Define snarky.

 

Snarky (adj): see: bring stone back

 

That's strange....the definition is my message board name? I don't do the message board thing often, but can I change my name to Snarky? How does one go about doing that?

[SouthSideRyan]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

 

But it's a whole damn team of 8 hitters. What are you basing your hopes that his #s will improve other than optimism?

[Geech]

I don't do the message board thing often, but can I change my name to Snarky? How does one go about doing that?

 

Simply ask the admins. 1908 might be willing to accomodate you.

[bhogg]

this is the sort of thing that pisses me off about message boards ---- here we have a few guys who, with all things being equal, are both rooting for a common goal -- Cub sucess.

 

However, becuase they look at things differently, crappiness ensues.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I skipped a few pages, so pardon me if this was pointed out somewhere.

 

Izturis is horrible offensively. DEFENSE WAS NOT THIS TEAM'S PROBLEM.

 

Yet the naysayers are acting like Hendry had a list of people to choose from for Maddux. It's not like he said no to all these great players...he took what he could and that's that. Frankly, I'm just glad we got rid of Maddux....he's not good and he's using a valuable spot in the rotation we should be using to audition Hill, Marmol, etc.

 

I'll take Izturis over a couple of nice prospects in AA.

 

So the people who realize Izturis is not good are now naysayers? We all know the market was not there for Maddux. Had Hendry dealt him for a couple of nice AA prospects, this isn't as bad. Minor leaguers are still unknowns. Izturis has been in the bigs long enough to demonstrate that he is very below average overall. What he lacks at the plate is not made up for in the field. Period. Hendry once again tried to plug a hole that wasn't there. The problem with this team was not, and still isn't, defense. The 2 biggest problems are lack of pitching and having no offense. Izturis can't pitch, and he certainly cannot hit.

[bring stone back]

Define snarky.

Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

 

Define irascible.....just kidding.

 

Yes, that is me but some attitudes here just bring it out in me. We all want the same thing...to see the Cubs do well. In the meanwhile, let's enjoy it for what it is, have some fun and see what happens. I prefer to watch the games and the players while having some beers and some fun.

[bring stone back]

I don't do the message board thing often, but can I change my name to Snarky? How does one go about doing that?

 

Simply ask the admins. 1908 might be willing to accomodate you.

 

I will....I think he likes me.

[Ocu-Master]

Define snarky.

Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

 

Define irascible.....just kidding.

 

Yes, that is me but some attitudes here just bring it out in me. We all want the same thing...to see the Cubs do well. In the meanwhile, let's enjoy it for what it is, have some fun and see what happens. I prefer to watch the games and the players while having some beers and some fun.

 

haha, this has to be the first time that I've seen one these argument settled so amicably.

[bring stone back]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

 

But it's a whole damn team of 8 hitters. What are you basing your hopes that his #s will improve other than optimism?

 

Talent, health, maturity, more offensive support surronding him.

[RationalSoxFan]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

 

But it's a whole damn team of 8 hitters. What are you basing your hopes that his #s will improve other than optimism?

 

Talent, health, maturity, more offensive support surronding him.

Players do not develop plate discipline 6 years into their career.

[bring stone back]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

 

But it's a whole damn team of 8 hitters. What are you basing your hopes that his #s will improve other than optimism?

 

Talent, health, maturity, more offensive support surronding him.

Players do not develop plate discipline 6 years into their career.

 

That's where you're wrong...all BUT Cesar Izturis.

 

What about talent, health and talent around him? Guys improve as they get older and he's still only 26. He was thrown right into the deep end at a very young age. At times he did well and at times he didn't, but who's to say it won't "click" for him next year? Nobody knows for sure....let's see.

[cubfan1955]

 

What do you want me to say? He's young with room to improve yet you deem him atrocious offensively and that's all there is to it, right?

 

We want you to stop writing writing loaded sentences like the one quoted above.

 

Tell me what to say so I can jump on board with this "Cubs suck, Hendry sucks, everyone sucks" bandwagon.

 

What I said above may have been loaded, but in response to 1908 it was absolutely right.

How was it absolutely right? You've been misrepresenting my statements all night and then discrediting them.

 

You said offensively he is atrocious. I feel and still do, that he can improve on his #'s yet because it doesn't fit into your projections or a calculation, he is terrible. I disagree.

 

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

Pardon me, I left the other Izturis discussion for work earlier on Tuesday so I may be out of the loop on a few things. Did Dusty Baker get fired today? I ask because he must have if you think Izturis is going to batting 8th on this team. He's going to carry that .300 OBP as a #2 hitter just like Neifi has for way too much time the last two years.

 

I would be okay with Izturis playing SS and batting 8th if we get Soriano to play 2B and CLee to play LF. Murton and Jones platoon in RF. Sign Zito and somehow get Prior healthy for a full year. I'm doubting all of that happens though.

[Outshined_One]

I'm surprised there have been Bill Pecota references, but no Dugout references along with it in this thread.

 

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1655/pecotagg9.jpgPECOTA: /frowns magnanimously

[fromthestretch]

Who's to say he can't have an Orlando Cabrera type of offensive resurgence?

 

In order for there to be an offensive resurgence, wouldn't that mean he would have previously had a good offensive season? A .710 OPS doesn't make for a good offensive season (by comparison, Cabrera's best was .807).

[soapy]

Better yet, compare those #'s to other 8 hole hitters in the NL and I'd argue he'd be just fine. Factor in what his defense brings and I like him at short and in the 8 hole.

Unfortunately, we already have numerous people who can fill the 8 hole (see: Cedeno, Ronny and Pere, Neifi). Not to mention the fact that he'll probably hit in the 2 hole, not 8.