Next year offensively...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, it's not feasible for any team to have that much abundance of riches. You also have to have guys who are in the lineup because of their glove, like Mientkiewicz or Orlando Cabrera.

 

You didn't ask about what's feasible, you asked what I wanted. And no, you don't have to have guys like Mientkiewicz in your lineup. I am a firm believer in offense first, offense last. Defense is an afterthought.

 

And if the season ended today, the team with the best offense in the major leagues will not make the playoffs.

 

What's the point? Are you trolling for an argument? Your question was what stats I want in which part of the lineup, not in regards to starting pitching, relievers, bench players, in-game strategies, etc. If you don't like the answer, be more specific next time.

[NewUserName]

I dont care if the best offense in baseball doesnt make the playoffs. I care that the worst offense in baseball isnt going to make the playoffs. I am a fan of good defense and pitching, like the Cardinals. It just so happens that the Cards also have Rolen, Pujols, Edmonds and guys like Eckstein who get on base and play good defense. In comparision we are close to the Cards defensively. IF we walked the same amount of hitters that the Cards have we would have a lot better pitching than them and only .30 ERA difference as it is. Which is a run every 3 games. We have scored 75 less runs then the Cards which is about .7 runs per game difference. So for those who dont think improving the offense isnt important you are just missing the whole point. We dont need the best offense, But we certainly need one that isnt easily the worse. I predict even if we get CLee and DLee comes back and plays most of the season we will still be in the bottom 1/4 of the league in offense

[Bruno7481]

Well, it's not feasible for any team to have that much abundance of riches. You also have to have guys who are in the lineup because of their glove, like Mientkiewicz or Orlando Cabrera.

 

You didn't ask about what's feasible, you asked what I wanted. And no, you don't have to have guys like Mientkiewicz in your lineup. I am a firm believer in offense first, offense last. Defense is an afterthought.

 

And if the season ended today, the team with the best offense in the major leagues will not make the playoffs.

 

Defense cannot be an afterthought. I'll agree hitting is more important, but you can't completely disregard defense and consider it worthless.

[EastonBlues22]

Defense is not worthless...but by the time you make the majors, most regular starters can field their positions at least competently. An .850 OPS 2B who's slightly below average defensively is worth more net runs to his team than a golf glove 2B who hits in the .650-700 OPS range.

 

Above average defense is nice, but hitting and pitching are more important.

[ZFan38]

What about Frank Catalanotto for LF. He has a career OPS over 800, with a good on base percentage, rarely strikes out, would be a lot cheaper than Carlos Lee and is a free agent after this season. The only thing is that he is 32 but I think a 3 year deal for him wouldn't be that bad. By saving money here that lets the Cubs move Jacque to center and acquire another big bat in RF.

[Geech]

What about Frank Catalanotto for LF. He has a career OPS over 800, with a good on base percentage, rarely strikes out, would be a lot cheaper than Carlos Lee and is a free agent after this season. The only thing is that he is 32 but I think a 3 year deal for him wouldn't be that bad. By saving money here that lets the Cubs move Jacque to center and acquire another big bat in RF.

 

He's making less than 3 million this year. Considering the price and the performance, he certainly looks like a better option than Carlos Lee. If Jones was moved to center, Catalanotto was platooned with Murton in left, and a decent outfielder was brought in to play right, then the Cobs might actually have a reasonably productive outfield.

[MPrior]

What about Frank Catalanotto for LF. He has a career OPS over 800, with a good on base percentage, rarely strikes out, would be a lot cheaper than Carlos Lee and is a free agent after this season. The only thing is that he is 32 but I think a 3 year deal for him wouldn't be that bad. By saving money here that lets the Cubs move Jacque to center and acquire another big bat in RF.

 

He's making less than 3 million this year. Considering the price and the performance, he certainly looks like a better option than Carlos Lee. If Jones was moved to center, Catalanotto was platooned with Murton in left, and a decent outfielder was brought in to play right, then the Cobs might actually have a reasonably productive outfield.

 

I kinda like this idea. It's very cost-effective, the Cubs would be unlikely to get into a huge bidding war, and it could make a significant difference. It's certainly not a huge difference maker - the Cubs would definitely need to do quite a bit more - but it would be a productive move.

[QcCubFan]

The Cubs are 13th in the NL in number of times they've struck out, not striking out does NOT mean you're going to put runs on the board. I'm not saying Catalanotto isn't a good pickup (I think he IS a good pickup), but one of the biggest misperceptions of the Cubs in recent years is they don't score runs because they strike out so much. Even in '04 they were only 7th in K's, which isn't bad for as many HR's they hit. I don't worry much about the strikeout frequency of a hitter, I care about how much he gets on base, and how much power he has.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Does anyone have any info on Ibanez contract?? I'm sure he is a FA. Jim will see LH bat doesn't walk alot, perfect for Dust bag to get his lefty righty batting order........

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Does anyone have any info on Ibanez contract?? I'm sure he is a FA. Jim will see LH bat doesn't walk alot, perfect for Dust bag to get his lefty righty batting order........

 

He signed an extension in March. 2 years/$11M (2007-08)

[cheapseats]

Just a thought, but what about Griffey for CF for next year? I believe he is a FA, but does he plan on trying to retire in a Reds uniform? At his age he might be willing to accept a 2 year deal, which should give Pie enough time to get ready, and he could always be shifted to a corner OF spot if Pie is ready in year 2.

 

I take it you haven't been keeping up with Griffey this year. He's been pretty horrible. His OBP is below .300.

[David]

Well, it's not feasible for any team to have that much abundance of riches. You also have to have guys who are in the lineup because of their glove, like Mientkiewicz or Orlando Cabrera.

 

You didn't ask about what's feasible, you asked what I wanted. And no, you don't have to have guys like Mientkiewicz in your lineup. I am a firm believer in offense first, offense last. Defense is an afterthought.

 

And if the season ended today, the team with the best offense in the major leagues will not make the playoffs.

 

 

That's because of pitching. Not "defense."

[goonys evil twin]

Just a thought, but what about Griffey for CF for next year? I believe he is a FA, but does he plan on trying to retire in a Reds uniform? At his age he might be willing to accept a 2 year deal, which should give Pie enough time to get ready, and he could always be shifted to a corner OF spot if Pie is ready in year 2.

 

I take it you haven't been keeping up with Griffey this year. He's been pretty horrible. His OBP is below .300.

 

Wow, I didn't notice that before you posted it. I thought he was having a decent year last I checked. This is probably not just an off year. Given his age (37 next year) and health, he's probably going to have a tough time getting back to his 2005 numbers, and maybe even his 2004. And at his cost, it's probably not worth the investment.

[David]

Well, it's not feasible for any team to have that much abundance of riches. You also have to have guys who are in the lineup because of their glove, like Mientkiewicz or Orlando Cabrera.

 

You didn't ask about what's feasible, you asked what I wanted. And no, you don't have to have guys like Mientkiewicz in your lineup. I am a firm believer in offense first, offense last. Defense is an afterthought.

 

And if the season ended today, the team with the best offense in the major leagues will not make the playoffs.

 

Defense cannot be an afterthought. I'll agree hitting is more important, but you can't completely disregard defense and consider it worthless.

 

You pretty much can, provided the guys you're talking about aren't complete butchers out there (think Todd Hundley in the outfield).

 

You show me a great hitting and great pitching team with average to even slightly below average fielding, and I'll show you a great team.

[goonys evil twin]

You pretty much can, provided the guys you're talking about aren't complete butchers out there (think Todd Hundley in the outfield).

 

You show me a great hitting and great pitching team with average to even slightly below average fielding, and I'll show you a great team.

 

That's the key point. Defense isn't worthless. But you can't build your team around it. No, you can't have 8 butchers out there, but you can win with a butcher somewhere (but that guy better be really good with the bat). You'll be fine with just a bunch of average defenders spread around. Defense doesn't win games in baseball. It's complementary. A secondary thought. You need pitching first, offense a close 2nd, and defense a distant 3rd.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That's the key point. Defense isn't worthless. But you can't build your team around it. No, you can't have 8 butchers out there, but you can win with a butcher somewhere (but that guy better be really good with the bat). You'll be fine with just a bunch of average defenders spread around. Defense doesn't win games in baseball. It's complementary. A secondary thought. You need pitching first, offense a close 2nd, and defense a distant 3rd.

 

Why is this concept so hard for some to understand?

[kylescubs23]

I do not want to even get started on the pitching so lets look at the offense for next year:

 

CF Pierre...hopefully we can resign Juan and hope he gets off to a better start next year. I am not a big fan of a leadoff hitter whose obp is driven by their batting average, but he is our best option (Dave Roberts maybe)

SS Izturis...once again, obp driven by batting average. I do not know of a better spot in the order for him. If you move Barrett to the 2-hole, your bottom 3 are Izturis, Cedeno, and the pitchers spot, not good

1B Lee...if he recovers fully from the wrist, there is nothing else to say.

LF ???...this is the fundamental problem with our team. We need someone to hit between Lee and Ramirez, preferably lefthanded but I will not be picky. Where we are going to find this person, I have no idea. Carlos Lee would fit the description but I would pay the contract that he wants. (thoughts on Sheffield, although I think the Yankees will pick up his option)

3B Rammy...Hendry's biggest mistake since becoming GM (debatable) is giving him the out clause in his contract. Hopefully Rammy is with the Cubs next year and has a manager that will stay on him to make him one of the best players in the league.

C Barrett...one of the most improved players in the league over the last three years, offensively.

RF Jacque...strikes out way too much to my liking and looks lost in the of sometimes, no arm to speak, but would be fine batting seventh and platooning with Murton.

2B Cedeno...he's not going to bat 2nd and would be fine here.

 

Bench:

Murton...I just don't see how he can play next year. We have to get another big bat to help this offense produce and to protect us against losing Lee or Ramirez for an extended time. Having little to no power from your middle infield and centerfielder, gives you very few options and with Jacque signed for two more years, we cannot upgrade there.

Neifi (unfortunately)

Pagan

After that, who knows.

 

Defensively, our infield should be one of the best in the big leagues. Lee and Izturis are gold glove caliber, Rammy has improved tremendously and Cedeno should be above average at second. In the oufield, Pierre covers a lot of ground, but has no arm, Jacque scares the crap out of me and has no arm as well. If we get a significant upgrade in left, I could care less about the outfield defense.

 

Pitching is just a mess. Beyond Z, we have four rotation spots open (3 if you count Prior) and 4 bullpen sports open as well, hopefully Wuertz, Aardsma, and Novoa step forward the rest of the year.

 

Thoughts?

 

Why not bat Barrett second he's an on-base machine and he's doesnt strike out a lot. Izturis would then move to the 7 slot ahead of Cedeno. Man we better get Lee during the offseason or we will not only have a weak rotation we will have a weak offense as well.

 

If you move Barrett to the 2-hole, your bottom 3 are Izturis, Cedeno, and the pitchers spot, not good

 

Just to answer your question, I haven't been at a computer since yesterday. I also admitted I didn't like guys whose obp is driven by their average aka Pierre, but what other options are there aka Dave Roberts.

[David]

Just to answer your question, I haven't been at a computer since yesterday. I also admitted I didn't like guys whose obp is driven by their average aka Pierre, but what other options are there aka Dave Roberts.

 

My preferred option (which has been campaigned for here by vance and others) would be to stick Jones in CF and get a bat in RF, where they are much easier to come by.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Just to answer your question, I haven't been at a computer since yesterday. I also admitted I didn't like guys whose obp is driven by their average aka Pierre, but what other options are there aka Dave Roberts.

 

My preferred option (which has been campaigned for here by vance and others) would be to stick Jones in CF and get a bat in RF, where they are much easier to come by.

 

And if your question was regarding a leadoff hitter, we don't need the little quick guy who might steal bases. We just need someone who's really good at getting on base.

[goonys evil twin]

That's the key point. Defense isn't worthless. But you can't build your team around it. No, you can't have 8 butchers out there, but you can win with a butcher somewhere (but that guy better be really good with the bat). You'll be fine with just a bunch of average defenders spread around. Defense doesn't win games in baseball. It's complementary. A secondary thought. You need pitching first, offense a close 2nd, and defense a distant 3rd.

 

Why is this concept so hard for some to understand?

 

Because people live and die by the cliche in sports. And there is no bigger cliche than defense wins championships. It might work in football, but not baseball. Mantras get repeated over and over and people take it as gospel. That's why people still get so hung up over the strikeout, and still use it to dog an otherwise productive hitter, or use the lack of strikeouts to prop up a completely an unproductive hitter.

[CUBZ99]

That's the key point. Defense isn't worthless. But you can't build your team around it. No, you can't have 8 butchers out there, but you can win with a butcher somewhere (but that guy better be really good with the bat). You'll be fine with just a bunch of average defenders spread around. Defense doesn't win games in baseball. It's complementary. A secondary thought. You need pitching first, offense a close 2nd, and defense a distant 3rd.

 

Why is this concept so hard for some to understand?

 

By looking at team statistics there doesn't seem to be any magical stat that jumps out at you as being most important.

 

OBP -- doesn't appear to be an indicator of a winning team. Only 2 of top 10 OBP teams are leading their division and one division leader is almost near the bottom in OBP.

 

BA -- same for batting average. Only 2 division leader are in the top 10 in BA.

 

ERA -- seems to coincide with Goony's (and many others) theory on pitching first. 3 division leaders are in the top 10 in ERA.

 

Is there a website that shows team fielding statistics? I wonder if defense is valued so poorly simply because of the lack of any type of objective standard. Generally, you can't get a grasp on a player's or teams defensive abilities without actually watching the games. And even if you watch the games, people's opinions on what defines good defense varies.

[USSoccer]

That's the key point. Defense isn't worthless. But you can't build your team around it. No, you can't have 8 butchers out there, but you can win with a butcher somewhere (but that guy better be really good with the bat). You'll be fine with just a bunch of average defenders spread around. Defense doesn't win games in baseball. It's complementary. A secondary thought. You need pitching first, offense a close 2nd, and defense a distant 3rd.

 

Why is this concept so hard for some to understand?

 

I wonder if defense is valued so poorly simply because of the lack of any type of objective standard. Generally, you can't get a grasp on a player's or teams defensive abilities without actually watching the games. And even if you watch the games, people's opinions on what defines good defense varies.

 

That's definetly part of it. If you can't quantify it's overall effect and make it predictive, you'd be stupid to try and build a team around it.

[katway]

Just a thought, but what about Griffey for CF for next year? I believe he is a FA, but does he plan on trying to retire in a Reds uniform? At his age he might be willing to accept a 2 year deal, which should give Pie enough time to get ready, and he could always be shifted to a corner OF spot if Pie is ready in year 2.

 

I take it you haven't been keeping up with Griffey this year. He's been pretty horrible. His OBP is below .300.

 

Wow, I didn't notice that before you posted it. I thought he was having a decent year last I checked. This is probably not just an off year. Given his age (37 next year) and health, he's probably going to have a tough time getting back to his 2005 numbers, and maybe even his 2004. And at his cost, it's probably not worth the investment.

 

Junior is a free agent following the 2008 season (unless the Reds pick up his option for 2009).

[goonys evil twin]

Junior is a free agent following the 2008 season (unless the Reds pick up his option for 2009).

 

Yep, it's kind of weird to think that deal is almost up. This is his 7th year in Cincy. What a disaster. He's still owed $12.5m per for 2 years, and all that deferred money. If you could get him for $5-6m per for 2 years, then maybe he's a decent risk, especially for a team as desperate as the Cubs for offense. But I'd be surprised if Cincy just gives him away and takes on the bulk of all the money he's owed.

[SouthSideRyan]

Can somebody explain to me what stats you want your no. 2 hitter to excell in, and why?

 

OBP - getting on base. That should be self-explanatory. I could care less if he's RH or LH, if he can bunt or run. He needs to get on base.

 

What about the 7 and 8 hitters?

 

7 and 8 is where my worst hitters go. I don't move one of my worst 2 hitters up to the 2 spot just so that 7-8-9 doesn't suck.