Hendry ticks me off...

[RynoRules]

The standard for this was the Cardinals trading for Scott Rolen when their team was out of it. If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Way out of it? That trade was in 2002, and as of the trade deadline in 2002 they were leading the division by 5 games.

 

That was a classic buy from a buying team and has no relevence to the Cubs current situation.

 

Whoops, i feel like an idiot

go with San Diego trading for Brian Giles the year before they opened their park. They were out of it the year of the trade, but they wanted to give the fan base reason to believe they were serious about fielding a winner the following year. For them, it really helped build the season-ticket sales during the offseason. The Cubs may not need that as badly, but the positive publicity would certainly be beneficial for them.

 

This brings up an interesting point: Would you rather see them tear this thing down, hire a guy with patience for young players and play kids around a few vets (for example, Lee, Z, and Barrett), or do you really believe they are only three or four good moves away? I am torn.

I'm not sure how realistic this would be, but given the reports that Philly wants to dump Abreu to anyone that will take the full contract, let's say these trades + offseason signings were made:

 

1. Abreu for Hill + Harvey

2. Ethier + Broxton for Maddux + Howry

3. sign Jason Schmidt

4. sign Zito

 

2B Walker (re-sign him)

LF Ethier

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B Ramirez

CF Jones

C Barrett

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Zito

SP Prior (when or if healthy) / Marshall

SP Marshall / Marmol / Guzman / etc.

 

RP Dempster

RP Broxton

RP Eyre

RP Ohman

RP Wuertz

RP additional arm from plethora available

 

I think that team wins the central and is WS - worthy. Schmidt and Zito are paid from the Wood and Maddux money, so the payroll just needs to go up for Abreu's salary.

 

Those suggestions nearly mirror the ones I posted in the "sulley's steps thread" (excepting the Zito move, which I did not consider, and noting that I would use Prior to get Abreu). That said, so many proactive moves in one cycle (trading deadline through spring training) are pretty difficult to pull off. Even so, its a nice mesh of trading for prospects to fill needs (thus saving money in process) and being active in the FA mkt to repair the rotation. I think the toughest part ofthe above would be inking both Schmidt and Zito. Also a risky long term move to tie up so much money in pitchers.

[Magnetic Curses]

The standard for this was the Cardinals trading for Scott Rolen when their team was out of it. If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Way out of it? That trade was in 2002, and as of the trade deadline in 2002 they were leading the division by 5 games.

 

That was a classic buy from a buying team and has no relevence to the Cubs current situation.

 

Whoops, i feel like an idiot

go with San Diego trading for Brian Giles the year before they opened their park. They were out of it the year of the trade, but they wanted to give the fan base reason to believe they were serious about fielding a winner the following year. For them, it really helped build the season-ticket sales during the offseason. The Cubs may not need that as badly, but the positive publicity would certainly be beneficial for them.

 

This brings up an interesting point: Would you rather see them tear this thing down, hire a guy with patience for young players and play kids around a few vets (for example, Lee, Z, and Barrett), or do you really believe they are only three or four good moves away? I am torn.

I'm not sure how realistic this would be, but given the reports that Philly wants to dump Abreu to anyone that will take the full contract, let's say these trades + offseason signings were made:

 

1. Abreu for Hill + Harvey

2. Ethier + Broxton for Maddux + Howry

3. sign Jason Schmidt

4. sign Zito

 

2B Walker (re-sign him)

LF Ethier

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B Ramirez

CF Jones

C Barrett

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Zito

SP Prior (when or if healthy) / Marshall

SP Marshall / Marmol / Guzman / etc.

 

RP Dempster

RP Broxton

RP Eyre

RP Ohman

RP Wuertz

RP additional arm from plethora available

 

I think that team wins the central and is WS - worthy. Schmidt and Zito are paid from the Wood and Maddux money, so the payroll just needs to go up for Abreu's salary.

 

what about z? he'll probably get wood's money and he'll probably get it next season.

 

i'm of the opinion that zito will be on the east coast, most probably, so schmidt would be our guy.

 

and, as i've professed before, i really like koskie, clark, and freel--and think that they are somewhat undervalued and could be had for a reasonable price.

 

(if anyone could fill me in on koskie and clark's contract status, i'd be grateful.)

 

but supporting players with high obps to fill in around 3 big bats in the middle of the lineup would more than fill our needs.

 

and a rotation of zambrano, prior, schmidt, hill, and marmol would satisfy me just fine.

[gflore34]

The standard for this was the Cardinals trading for Scott Rolen when their team was out of it. If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Way out of it? That trade was in 2002, and as of the trade deadline in 2002 they were leading the division by 5 games.

 

That was a classic buy from a buying team and has no relevence to the Cubs current situation.

 

Whoops, i feel like an idiot

go with San Diego trading for Brian Giles the year before they opened their park. They were out of it the year of the trade, but they wanted to give the fan base reason to believe they were serious about fielding a winner the following year. For them, it really helped build the season-ticket sales during the offseason. The Cubs may not need that as badly, but the positive publicity would certainly be beneficial for them.

 

This brings up an interesting point: Would you rather see them tear this thing down, hire a guy with patience for young players and play kids around a few vets (for example, Lee, Z, and Barrett), or do you really believe they are only three or four good moves away? I am torn.

I'm not sure how realistic this would be, but given the reports that Philly wants to dump Abreu to anyone that will take the full contract, let's say these trades + offseason signings were made:

 

1. Abreu for Hill + Harvey

2. Ethier + Broxton for Maddux + Howry

3. sign Jason Schmidt

4. sign Zito

 

2B Walker (re-sign him)

LF Ethier

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B Ramirez

CF Jones

C Barrett

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Zito

SP Prior (when or if healthy) / Marshall

SP Marshall / Marmol / Guzman / etc.

 

RP Dempster

RP Broxton

RP Eyre

RP Ohman

RP Wuertz

RP additional arm from plethora available

 

I think that team wins the central and is WS - worthy. Schmidt and Zito are paid from the Wood and Maddux money, so the payroll just needs to go up for Abreu's salary.

 

what about z? he'll probably get wood's money and he'll probably get it next season.

 

i'm of the opinion that zito will be on the east coast, most probably, so schmidt would be our guy.

 

and, as i've professed before, i really like koskie, clark, and freel--and think that they are somewhat undervalued and could be had for a reasonable price.

 

(if anyone could fill me in on koskie and clark's contract status, i'd be grateful.)

 

but supporting players with high obps to fill in around 3 big bats in the middle of the lineup would more than fill our needs.

 

and a rotation of zambrano, prior, schmidt, hill, and marmol would satisfy me just fine.

 

 

Unfortunately, Hendry doesn't value OBP hence; I don't believe he recognizes the need for high OBP around three big bats.

 

As I've mentioned to my wife on many occassions, I'm convinced some of you could turn the Cubs around into WS contenders before Hendry ever does.

[Magnetic Curses]

The standard for this was the Cardinals trading for Scott Rolen when their team was out of it. If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Way out of it? That trade was in 2002, and as of the trade deadline in 2002 they were leading the division by 5 games.

 

That was a classic buy from a buying team and has no relevence to the Cubs current situation.

 

Whoops, i feel like an idiot

go with San Diego trading for Brian Giles the year before they opened their park. They were out of it the year of the trade, but they wanted to give the fan base reason to believe they were serious about fielding a winner the following year. For them, it really helped build the season-ticket sales during the offseason. The Cubs may not need that as badly, but the positive publicity would certainly be beneficial for them.

 

This brings up an interesting point: Would you rather see them tear this thing down, hire a guy with patience for young players and play kids around a few vets (for example, Lee, Z, and Barrett), or do you really believe they are only three or four good moves away? I am torn.

I'm not sure how realistic this would be, but given the reports that Philly wants to dump Abreu to anyone that will take the full contract, let's say these trades + offseason signings were made:

 

1. Abreu for Hill + Harvey

2. Ethier + Broxton for Maddux + Howry

3. sign Jason Schmidt

4. sign Zito

 

2B Walker (re-sign him)

LF Ethier

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B Ramirez

CF Jones

C Barrett

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Zito

SP Prior (when or if healthy) / Marshall

SP Marshall / Marmol / Guzman / etc.

 

RP Dempster

RP Broxton

RP Eyre

RP Ohman

RP Wuertz

RP additional arm from plethora available

 

I think that team wins the central and is WS - worthy. Schmidt and Zito are paid from the Wood and Maddux money, so the payroll just needs to go up for Abreu's salary.

 

what about z? he'll probably get wood's money and he'll probably get it next season.

 

i'm of the opinion that zito will be on the east coast, most probably, so schmidt would be our guy.

 

and, as i've professed before, i really like koskie, clark, and freel--and think that they are somewhat undervalued and could be had for a reasonable price.

 

(if anyone could fill me in on koskie and clark's contract status, i'd be grateful.)

 

but supporting players with high obps to fill in around 3 big bats in the middle of the lineup would more than fill our needs.

 

and a rotation of zambrano, prior, schmidt, hill, and marmol would satisfy me just fine.

 

 

Unfortunately, Hendry doesn't value OBP hence; I don't believe he recognizes the need for high OBP around three big bats.

 

As I've mentioned to my wife on many occassions, I'm convinced some of you could turn the Cubs around into WS contenders before Hendry ever does.

 

the thing is, i don't know if hendry is purposefully ignoring the team's inability to get on base out of spite, to prove that you can win without getting on base-kind of like trying to pour the perfect beer down the middle of the glass.

 

jim, you must use the side of the glass, i'm sorry.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think people need to give up on the idea of Jones moving to CF. It's not nearly traditional enough for this franchise.

[Fro]

I just hope we trade for a prospect that's worth a crap with the guys that we're not going to bring back anyway. Get some fresh blood who might be able to contribute next year.

[Guest]

The standard for this was the Cardinals trading for Scott Rolen when their team was out of it. If they can do it, why can't we?

 

Way out of it? That trade was in 2002, and as of the trade deadline in 2002 they were leading the division by 5 games.

 

That was a classic buy from a buying team and has no relevence to the Cubs current situation.

 

Whoops, i feel like an idiot

go with San Diego trading for Brian Giles the year before they opened their park. They were out of it the year of the trade, but they wanted to give the fan base reason to believe they were serious about fielding a winner the following year. For them, it really helped build the season-ticket sales during the offseason. The Cubs may not need that as badly, but the positive publicity would certainly be beneficial for them.

 

This brings up an interesting point: Would you rather see them tear this thing down, hire a guy with patience for young players and play kids around a few vets (for example, Lee, Z, and Barrett), or do you really believe they are only three or four good moves away? I am torn.

I'm not sure how realistic this would be, but given the reports that Philly wants to dump Abreu to anyone that will take the full contract, let's say these trades + offseason signings were made:

 

1. Abreu for Hill + Harvey

2. Ethier + Broxton for Maddux + Howry

3. sign Jason Schmidt

4. sign Zito

 

2B Walker (re-sign him)

LF Ethier

1B Lee

RF Abreu

3B Ramirez

CF Jones

C Barrett

SS Cedeno

 

SP Zambrano

SP Schmidt

SP Zito

SP Prior (when or if healthy) / Marshall

SP Marshall / Marmol / Guzman / etc.

 

RP Dempster

RP Broxton

RP Eyre

RP Ohman

RP Wuertz

RP additional arm from plethora available

 

I think that team wins the central and is WS - worthy. Schmidt and Zito are paid from the Wood and Maddux money, so the payroll just needs to go up for Abreu's salary.

 

what about z? he'll probably get wood's money and he'll probably get it next season.

 

i'm of the opinion that zito will be on the east coast, most probably, so schmidt would be our guy.

 

and, as i've professed before, i really like koskie, clark, and freel--and think that they are somewhat undervalued and could be had for a reasonable price.

 

(if anyone could fill me in on koskie and clark's contract status, i'd be grateful.)

 

but supporting players with high obps to fill in around 3 big bats in the middle of the lineup would more than fill our needs.

 

and a rotation of zambrano, prior, schmidt, hill, and marmol would satisfy me just fine.

I wasn't saying what I'd really try to do. I was just showing that we're within 4 moves of being WS-calibre.

[abuck1220]

I think people need to give up on the idea of Jones moving to CF. It's not nearly traditional enough for this franchise.

 

unfortunately, i agree. his offense might actually be tolerable as a cf.

[TheDude]

Ok, so why does Hendry pay Abreu 5+ million for the remainder of this season instead of going hard after him in the offseason? What does he have to gain now, and how does he explain the financial loss to his superiors who aren't interested in a cheerleading session?

 

Because he won't be available in the offseason.

 

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

[CubColtPacer]

I think people need to give up on the idea of Jones moving to CF. It's not nearly traditional enough for this franchise.

 

unfortunately, i agree. his offense might actually be tolerable as a cf.

 

You mean tolerable like his career OPS would rank as average for RF's this year? There are plenty of RF's in this league that check in at under .785 this year. Jones's offense in center would go from tolerable to very good, I just don't know about his defense there.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

[goonys evil twin]

Ok, so why does Hendry pay Abreu 5+ million for the remainder of this season instead of going hard after him in the offseason? What does he have to gain now, and how does he explain the financial loss to his superiors who aren't interested in a cheerleading session?

 

Because he won't be available in the offseason.

 

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

I'm the opposite, I'd be surprised if he isn't moved, but then again, I've been predicting Philly would eventually try to deal him for a year and a half now. If he isn't moved until November, no harm then. But if he goes elsewhere for little value, that's a huge mistake by Hendry. Enough of this waiting it out garbage, you have to aggressively go after players that can help you, not wait to see who is left when the dust settles.

[TheDude]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

 

Next year isn't the issue - it's the option for the for the following year that has all teams balking. If you're trading for Abreu, you are commiting to 2.5 years at ~$35 million.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

 

Next year isn't the issue - it's the option for the for the following year that has all teams balking. If you're trading for Abreu, you are commiting to 2.5 years at ~$35 million.

 

And if you sign Lee or Soriano you could be talking about much more.

 

The one thing the Cubs have is some money to spend. Not a lot of talent to trade, but they have money to spend. If you can get a guy by basically agreeing to pay his salary, and if his contract is not long in duration (Andy and Jim always prefer shorter deals to longer ones) then you've got to look into it. He's only overpaid by a couple million, which is no more than how much Rusch or Neifi are overpaid. I'd much rather overpay for a guy who has a chance to contribute something great (Abreu's likely .400+ OBP is just that) than for guys who suck.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

 

Next year isn't the issue - it's the option for the for the following year that has all teams balking. If you're trading for Abreu, you are commiting to 2.5 years at ~$35 million.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but it's a club option with a $2M buyout. That shouldn't be an issue to the teams that can afford a $15M salary in the first place.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

 

Next year isn't the issue - it's the option for the for the following year that has all teams balking. If you're trading for Abreu, you are commiting to 2.5 years at ~$35 million.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but it's a club option with a $2M buyout. That shouldn't be an issue to the teams that can afford a $15M salary in the first place.

 

The issue is that Abreu has been saying that he will force teams who they might possibly trade him to either make his option year guaranteed, or to give him a new deal.

[beowulf28]

I'm not convinced Philly will move him. Teams aren't willing to give up the asking price at this stage, and on top of that, Abreu will demand that extra year on the contract.

 

I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a Philly come October. Then the Cubs could make a solid run at him.

 

Isn't that how we ended up with Jones, waiting until it was too late? If Abreu's available now, he won't be in October. Any team currently in the race that can afford him will keep him for next year.

 

Next year isn't the issue - it's the option for the for the following year that has all teams balking. If you're trading for Abreu, you are commiting to 2.5 years at ~$35 million.

 

And if you sign Lee or Soriano you could be talking about much more.

 

The one thing the Cubs have is some money to spend. Not a lot of talent to trade, but they have money to spend. If you can get a guy by basically agreeing to pay his salary, and if his contract is not long in duration (Andy and Jim always prefer shorter deals to longer ones) then you've got to look into it. He's only overpaid by a couple million, which is no more than how much Rusch or Neifi are overpaid. I'd much rather overpay for a guy who has a chance to contribute something great (Abreu's likely .400+ OBP is just that) than for guys who suck.

 

That 2.5 yrs. would be right up Hendry's alley. As Goony said, Hendry prefers shorter contracts.