All-Time Rankings: First Base

TruffleShuffle · July 25, 2006

Same rules as before. Top 10 of all time, rank 'em. I'll give you most hall of famers, and all those in Bill James' top 25 who aren't in the Hall. I say most HOF'ers because to keep the list reasonably short, I'm going to cut out guys who made the Hall but clearly shouldn't have - i.e., Jake Beckley or George Kelly.

Dick Allen

CubsInNC · July 26, 2006

1) Jimmy Foxx

2) Lou Gehrig

3) Harmon Killebrew

4) Orlando Cepeda

5) Eddie Murray

6) Dick Allen

7) Hank Greenberg

8) Frank Thomas

9) Jeff Bagwell

10) Rafael Palmeiro

Notes: I found #1&2 to be tough to decide between, and could easily be convinced to flip them the other way. Same with 9 and 10.

Edit: Removed Musial, per Truff's wishes, and adjusted accordingly.

Edited July 26, 2006 by CubsInNC

AlwaysaCub · July 26, 2006

1) Jimmy Foxx
2) Lou Gehrig
3) Harmon Killebrew
4) Orlando Cepeda
5) Eddie Murray
6) Dick Allen
7) Stan Musial
8) Hank Greenberg
9) Frank Thomas
10) Jeff Bagwell

Notes: I feel Stan deserves to be here, since he played 1016 games at 1B, and won't make the OF list.

I found #1&2 to be tough to decide between, and could easily be convinced to flip them the other way. Same with 9 and 10.

That's a lot of love for Dick Allen, but I feel it.

1. Lou Gehrig

2. Jimmy Foxx

3. Jeff Bagwell

4. Willie McCovey

5. Mark McGwire

6. Harmon Killebrew

7. Frank Thomas

8. Hank Greenberg

9. Johnny Mize

10. Eddie Murray.

11-13. Dick Allen, Don Mattingly, Cap Anson

Jon · July 26, 2006

Why Greenberg so low? He may not have played as many years as most of the other guys, but he has a 158 career OPS+.

don_kessinger_was_good · July 26, 2006

Pops Stargell is not on your list. Neither is Bill Terry. Killer spent less than half his career at 1B, Musial much less than half, Yazstremski, Richie Allen and Banks, too. My list of true 1B:

1. Gehrig

2. Foxx

3. Sisler

4. Greenberg

5. Anson

6. Terry

7. Mize

8. Cepeda

9. Murray

10. McCovey

If you want to discount Anson as a pre-Dead Ball era, 19th century guy, the others move up and I'd put either Stargell or McGwire in at #10.

3finger · July 26, 2006

fwiw, top 10 by RCAA:

1    Lou Gehrig                1247   
2    Jimmie Foxx                951   
3    Dan Brouthers              934   
4    Roger Connor               732   
5    Jeff Bagwell               680   
T6   Johnny Mize                667   
T6   Mark McGwire               667   
8    Cap Anson                  659   
9    Willie McCovey             536   
10   Frank Thomas               505

Mize did his damage with about 1400 fewer ABs then Bagwell. McGwire had about 200 fewer than Mize.

TruffleShuffle · July 26, 2006

Notes: I feel Stan deserves to be here, since he played 1016 games at 1B, and won't make the OF list.

He played way more games in the OF than at 1B. He'll be on the LF rankings, so move the other guys up and put another guy in at #10 if you want to.

TruffleShuffle · July 26, 2006

Pops Stargell is not on your list. Neither is Bill Terry. Killer spent less than half his career at 1B, Musial much less than half, Yazstremski, Richie Allen and Banks, too. My list of true 1B:

If you want to discount Anson as a pre-Dead Ball era, 19th century guy, the others move up and I'd put either Stargell or McGwire in at #10.

Look folks, the criteria is the position at which a player had the most action. Harmon Killebrew played more games at 1B than other position, and he was such a good hitter than he has to be rated at some position. If I don't put him at 1B, then he won't be ranked at all, which is unfair to such a great hitter. You can't rank Stargell at 1B because he played fewer games there than in the OF.

Yaz is a LF, Stargell is a LF, Banks is a SS, Richie Allen is a 1B. Bill Terry was on the list.

SoonerCubFan · July 26, 2006

The NOW list would be:

1. Lou Gehrig

2. Jimmie Foxx

3. Hank Greenberg

4. Mark McGwire

5. Johnny Mize

6. Willie McCovey

7. Harmon Killebrew

8. Jeff Bagwell

9. Frank Thomas

10. Dick Allen

I give extra credit to Greenberg and Mize for losing 3 prime years each, and McCovey and Killebrew for dominating in a pitcher's era. Baggy gets the nod over Thomas due to his better all around game. Ultimately, I could see Pujols cracking the Top 3 and possibly end up #2 unless he pulls a Frank Thomas fade, and Thome moving ahead of McCovey and possibly ahead of Mize if he can get to 600 HR.

jjgman21 · July 26, 2006

<<>>

TruffleShuffle · July 26, 2006

I give extra credit to Greenberg and Mize for losing 3 prime years each

That's fair... I plan on giving that consideration to all good players who missed time serving during WWII or Korea.

Outshined_One · July 26, 2006

<<>>

Sandberg > Morgan

TruffleShuffle · July 26, 2006

Yeah I'll be interested to see if people can separate Morgan the great second baseman from Morgan the terrible announcer.

jjgman21 · July 26, 2006

<<>>

Sandberg > Morgan

neither of which could sniff the jock of the best ever, but let's save it for that time. the thought just occurred to me when I saw the new thread.

as for the best first baseman, again I have trouble doing rankings like this. too much to consider to complile a list, but as for the best, hands down, the Iron Horse. the guy is top 5 OPS+ ever. the only first basemen even close are Pujols and Foxx/McGwire. supposedly he had some other things going for him as well. if not for his pursuit of an education and the disease that bears his name, he'd be mentioned in the same breath as Aaron, Ruth, Williams, and he very much deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as those guys anyway.

Andy · July 26, 2006

If Gehrig had not been cut down by ALS, the top spot would not be debatable IMO

TruffleShuffle · July 26, 2006

If Gehrig had not been cut down by ALS, the top spot would not be debatable IMO

Yeah no question, as it is, many (most?) baseball people still think he's the best of all-time at first base.

SoonerCubFan · July 27, 2006

I give extra credit to Greenberg and Mize for losing 3 prime years each

That's fair... I plan on giving that consideration to all good players who missed time serving during WWII or Korea.

In retrospect, Greenberg actually missed almost 5 full seasons, not just the 3 I quickly glanced over. He could have been virtually identical in career numbers with Foxx if he'd had a full career.

RonnieWooWooSanto · July 27, 2006

Is Rod Carew going to be considered 2b since he started his career there?

He played 54 more games at 1b, but I just want to make sure before I comprise my list.

TruffleShuffle · July 27, 2006

Is Rod Carew going to be considered 2b since he started his career there?

He played 54 more games at 1b, but I just want to make sure before I comprise my list.

I'm going by James' list, and he has Carew there, so that's what I'm going with. If you want, you can take into account the fact that he played half his games at 1B when you rank him as a 2B.

soccer10k · July 27, 2006

If Gehrig had not been cut down by ALS, the top spot would not be debatable IMO

I read a Gehrig biography "Luckiest Man" by Jonathan Eig. In the book there is something regarding where Gehrig could have ended up in the all time record books.

If Gehrig had played on until the age of forty-two, he quite possibly could have rewritten the game's record books, according to Bill James, the baseball statistician and writer. James calculates that Gehrig would have finished his career with 689 home runs (more than anyone but Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and Barry Bonds); 3928 hits (third after Pete Rose and Ty Cobb); 2879 runs batted in (almost 600 more than today's record, held by Aaron); 2475 walks (a number no one has ever reached, though Barry Bonds is fast approaching) and a lifetime batting average of .330.

I realize that these statistics are rough estimates but they show the heights Gehrig could have reached had he not been struck down with ALS. This goes for Ted Williams as well since he missed 3 full years in his prime due to WWII and missed almost 2 full years due to the Korean War.

To add to the other stats, Gehrig has a career line of .340/.442/.632/1.074 which is good enough for 12th/4th/3rd/3rd all time. Unbelievable player. I'll give my list in a bit.

"Today, I consider myself, the luckiest man on the face of the earth."

Oh, and it's a very good book for anyone interested.

soccer10k · July 27, 2006

1. Gehrig

2. Foxx

3. Greenberg

4. Killebrew

5. Cepeda

6. Musial

7. Thomas

8. Allen

9. Ansen

10. Mize

EDIT: I listed Greenberg twice.

Edited July 27, 2006 by soccer10k

RonnieWooWooSanto · July 27, 2006

1. Gehrig

2. Foxx

3. Greenberg

4. Mize

5. McCovey

6. Anson

7. E. Murray

8. Sisler

9. Cepeda

10. Chance

Note: I never realized Gil Hodges wasn't in the hall of fame. I Dick Allen wasn't, but just assumed Hodges had been put in.

RonnieWooWooSanto · July 27, 2006

1. Gehrig
2. Foxx
3. Greenberg
4. Killebrew
5. Cepeda
6. Greenberg
7. Musial
8. Thomas
9. Allen
10. Ansen

You have Greenberg twice on your list.

soccer10k · July 27, 2006

1. Gehrig
2. Foxx
3. Greenberg
4. Killebrew
5. Cepeda
6. Greenberg
7. Musial
8. Thomas
9. Allen
10. Ansen

You have Greenberg twice on your list.

Oops. Fixed that one. I must have thought being ranked third wasn't good enough so I figured ranking him sixth as well would mean a little more.

Wolverineman · July 30, 2006

Lists are fun.

1. Lou Gehrig

2. Jimmie Foxx

3. Frank Thomas

4. Jeff Bagwell

5. Dick Allen

6. Harmon Killebrew

7. Dan Brouthers

8. Hank Greenberg

9. Johnny Mize

10. Albert Pujols

I really wanted to include Sisler, who is probably my favorite player ever(its between him and Max Bishop), but couldn't. I realize ranking Pujols that high this early is a bit risky too.. but he's just been too good and I don't really see him slowing down.

All-Time Rankings: First Base

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