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Posted
I'm not saying he would need to sit against all RHP, just the tough ones and ones he has had little success against, like Baker does with Walker.

 

Baker doesn't just sit Walker vs LHP he can't handle. He's unjustifiably sat him on numerous occasions.

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Posted
I'm not saying he would need to sit against all RHP, just the tough ones and ones he has had little success against, like Baker does with Walker.

 

Baker doesn't just sit Walker vs LHP he can't handle. He's unjustifiably sat him on numerous occasions.

Like the times when Maddux pitches. You gotta have Neifi's glove in there. Nevermid that Maddux has a 5+ ERA and they need all the extra help they can get.

Posted

I'm not saying he would need to sit against all RHP, just the tough ones and ones he has had little success against, like Baker does with Walker. Just glancing at RetroSheet.com, I saw Soriano has sub .200BA/.250OBP against the following pitchers who were in the AL West (with at least 20AB against) - Bartolo Colon, John Lackey, Jarrod Washburn, Joe Kennedy, and Rich Harden. Take those AB away, and I bet Soriano's OBP increases significantly.

 

Perhaps that's why the Rangers dealt him. They couldn't justify paying several million dollars to a guy who can't hit half the pitchers in his own division.

Posted
If Soriano only played about 2/3 of the Ranger's games in 04 and 05 and was sat against tough right handers on a regular basis, maybe his numbers would be a little more impressive.

 

Right or wrong, Walker has been used sparingly against lefties during his run as a Cub, and Walker's career numbers would indicate this has been beneficial to his Cubs numbers. This is a guess based on observation and Dusty's tendencies, but the only lefties Walker gets to face are either lefties Walker has had prior success against, or against lefties with an unimpressive resume.

 

Todd Walker:

2002 vs LHP 158AB .278 .315 .373

2003 vs LHP 158AB .234 .282 .373

2004 vs LHP 41AB .268 .423 .317

2005 vs LHP 91AB .352 .398 .582

2006 vs. Left 86AB .209 .324 .314

 

Except Soriano's R/L OPS split was only .060 in '04 and his OPS was .110 better against righties (in other words - reverse split) in '05. If he had sat against RHP in '05, his numbers would have been worse.

 

I'm not saying he would need to sit against all RHP, just the tough ones and ones he has had little success against, like Baker does with Walker. Just glancing at RetroSheet.com, I saw Soriano has sub .200BA/.250OBP against the following pitchers who were in the AL West (with at least 20AB against) - Bartolo Colon, John Lackey, Jarrod Washburn, Joe Kennedy, and Rich Harden. Take those AB away, and I bet Soriano's OBP increases significantly.

 

First of all, if you take away all of Walker's ABs against guys he hasn't done well against, his OBP will increase significantly too. I'm sorry, but that's just an insane argument. You don't get to remove all of Soriano's bad ABs and use that as support for a claim that he's better than Walker.

 

Second, I'm confused by your post. I think you're saying that the list you supplied is a group of RHP against whom Soriano has struggled - so remove them to compensate for Baker sitting Walker against select LHPs. Problem being, 2 of those guys listed are LHPs.

 

So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

Posted
If Soriano only played about 2/3 of the Ranger's games in 04 and 05 and was sat against tough right handers on a regular basis, maybe his numbers would be a little more impressive.

 

Right or wrong, Walker has been used sparingly against lefties during his run as a Cub, and Walker's career numbers would indicate this has been beneficial to his Cubs numbers. This is a guess based on observation and Dusty's tendencies, but the only lefties Walker gets to face are either lefties Walker has had prior success against, or against lefties with an unimpressive resume.

 

Todd Walker:

2002 vs LHP 158AB .278 .315 .373

2003 vs LHP 158AB .234 .282 .373

2004 vs LHP 41AB .268 .423 .317

2005 vs LHP 91AB .352 .398 .582

2006 vs. Left 86AB .209 .324 .314

 

Except Soriano's R/L OPS split was only .060 in '04 and his OPS was .110 better against righties (in other words - reverse split) in '05. If he had sat against RHP in '05, his numbers would have been worse.

 

I'm not saying he would need to sit against all RHP, just the tough ones and ones he has had little success against, like Baker does with Walker. Just glancing at RetroSheet.com, I saw Soriano has sub .200BA/.250OBP against the following pitchers who were in the AL West (with at least 20AB against) - Bartolo Colon, John Lackey, Jarrod Washburn, Joe Kennedy, and Rich Harden. Take those AB away, and I bet Soriano's OBP increases significantly.

 

First of all, if you take away all of Walker's ABs against guys he hasn't done well against, his OBP will increase significantly too. I'm sorry, but that's just an insane argument. You don't get to remove all of Soriano's bad ABs and use that as support for a claim that he's better than Walker.

 

Second, I'm confused by your post. I think you're saying that the list you supplied is a group of RHP against whom Soriano has struggled - so remove them to compensate for Baker sitting Walker against select LHPs. Problem being, 2 of those guys listed are LHPs.

 

So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

 

Sorry about the LHP thing :oops: I thought I knew my RHP/LHP better than I do.

 

My point is that if Soriano was sat regularly against like handed pitchers like Walker is, his OBP would look better. Or conversely, if Walker was started against tough lefties and pitchers he doesn't hit well, his OBP would drop. Comparing Walkers 430 avg. PA/yr in 04-05 to Soriano's 670 avg. PA/yr in 04-05 isn't comparing apples to apples.

Posted
First, No I don't troll at all. I have no problem looking at stats, but saying Walker was the better player over Soriano during 2004 & 2005 is something that a stats geek would say. I'm not arrogant enough to say I know more than baseball scouts, coaches, and managers who have spent their lives in baseball. Obviously, Soriano was considered a top player and an All Star while Walker has been offered around the league and rejected in trade proposals. There's a reason Soriano is making $10 million and Walker makes $2.5 million. Not every manager and GM is an idiot (excluding Baker & Hendry). To sum it up, Soriano brings more to a team than Walker and we all know it's not his defense. Do you think that Texas would have traded Soriano for Walker even up at the end of last year?

 

Well, if your comment about stat geeks wasn't intended to attack other posters on this board, I don't understand the point, but whatever.

 

As for Walker and Soriano, this year, Soriano has been better. The 2 previous years, Walker was. The 2 years before that? Soriano was better - he had 2 really good years in '02 and '03 (esp 02). But, as others have said, Soriano's contract is based on hype & potential, which he is matching with performance this year. He wasn't doing that in '04 and '05.

 

As for whether Texas would have traded Soriano for Walker last year, I don't know. Do you?

 

Since Hendry worked overtime trying to deal Walker and he really wanted Soriano, I would think that the Rangers would have laughed in Hendry's face at an offer of only Walker. Again the knowledgable people in baseball have traded away Walker and have trouble finding a full time position for him while Soriano has been desired by many of the same people over the years. Can't all be based on hype and potential, but mediocre production.

Posted

 

While the Cubs are struggling, Cub fans are going to criticize or attack any move or rumor that involves Hendry. If the Cubs acquired ARod or Miggy, people would complain that they're over the hill, cost too much in salary, and the Cubs gave up too much for them (Pie, Hill, Cedeno, etc.). I've written more than a few times that while the posters are finding fault with every rumored trade, the Cubs are going to lose 100 games this season. I like Walker, but for goodness sake, there's a thread going on now comparing Walker (favorably) to Soriano (and that's without the salary). Sometimes stat geeks need to take their noses out of a book and watch some baseball.

 

I've probably watched as much baseball this year as anyone on the board.

Posted
First, No I don't troll at all. I have no problem looking at stats, but saying Walker was the better player over Soriano during 2004 & 2005 is something that a stats geek would say. I'm not arrogant enough to say I know more than baseball scouts, coaches, and managers who have spent their lives in baseball. Obviously, Soriano was considered a top player and an All Star while Walker has been offered around the league and rejected in trade proposals. There's a reason Soriano is making $10 million and Walker makes $2.5 million. Not every manager and GM is an idiot (excluding Baker & Hendry). To sum it up, Soriano brings more to a team than Walker and we all know it's not his defense. Do you think that Texas would have traded Soriano for Walker even up at the end of last year?

 

Well, if your comment about stat geeks wasn't intended to attack other posters on this board, I don't understand the point, but whatever.

 

As for Walker and Soriano, this year, Soriano has been better. The 2 previous years, Walker was. The 2 years before that? Soriano was better - he had 2 really good years in '02 and '03 (esp 02). But, as others have said, Soriano's contract is based on hype & potential, which he is matching with performance this year. He wasn't doing that in '04 and '05.

 

As for whether Texas would have traded Soriano for Walker last year, I don't know. Do you?

 

Since Hendry worked overtime trying to deal Walker and he really wanted Soriano, I would think that the Rangers would have laughed in Hendry's face at an offer of only Walker. Again the knowledgable people in baseball have traded away Walker and have trouble finding a full time position for him while Soriano has been desired by many of the same people over the years. Can't all be based on hype and potential, but mediocre production.

 

I guess you and the baseball world just don't understand what a great player Todd Walker really is. This argument is beyond funny, trying to ignore xbase hits, RBI's, SB's. You are correct, but yet people actually have the insane idea that during a career that Walker is a better player. This is the same insane argument over the winter when people actually tried to say that Walker's numbers were better than Tejada's. Most teams feel the total offensive player is more important than the all mighty OBP>

Posted
So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

 

I think the point was that Walker's stats in 2004 and 2005 were artificially inflated by keeping him on the bench against tough lefties. Put another way, do you think Walker's OPS+ in those years would have been just as high if he played every day?

 

Who are "tough lefties"? As noises pointed out, Soriano's struggled against some good pitchers (Harden, etc) and also some average to bad pitchers (Washburn, Kennedy). So if you hand pick the guys that a player struggles against and remove those ABs, yes, his #s will go up. But how do you know that the guys Walker didn't face are guys he would struggle against? Dusty sat him almost randomly last year, more often against LHP, but it's not like there are a ton of dominant LHP in the NL anyway. So no, I don't think his OPS+ would have been significantly different and you have nothing but speculation to support your claim that it would be.

 

And oh, as far as sitting Walker against LHP - his OPS against lefties last year was .980, so that doesn't really help you. Walker was having a very solid year last year and Soriano was struggling. In '05 (and 04) Walker was just the better player.

Posted
So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

 

I think the point was that Walker's stats in 2004 and 2005 were artificially inflated by keeping him on the bench against tough lefties. Put another way, do you think Walker's OPS+ in those years would have been just as high if he played every day?

 

Who are "tough lefties"? As noises pointed out, Soriano's struggled against some good pitchers (Harden, etc) and also some average to bad pitchers (Washburn, Kennedy). So if you hand pick the guys that a player struggles against and remove those ABs, yes, his #s will go up. But how do you know that the guys Walker didn't face are guys he would struggle against? Dusty sat him almost randomly last year, more often against LHP, but it's not like there are a ton of dominant LHP in the NL anyway. So no, I don't think his OPS+ would have been significantly different and you have nothing but speculation to support your claim that it would be.

 

And oh, as far as sitting Walker against LHP - his OPS against lefties last year was .980, so that doesn't really help you. Walker was having a very solid year last year and Soriano was struggling. In '05 (and 04) Walker was just the better player.

 

I'll look for his plaque in Cooperstown in a few years.

Posted
So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

 

I think the point was that Walker's stats in 2004 and 2005 were artificially inflated by keeping him on the bench against tough lefties. Put another way, do you think Walker's OPS+ in those years would have been just as high if he played every day?

 

Who are "tough lefties"? As noises pointed out, Soriano's struggled against some good pitchers (Harden, etc) and also some average to bad pitchers (Washburn, Kennedy). So if you hand pick the guys that a player struggles against and remove those ABs, yes, his #s will go up. But how do you know that the guys Walker didn't face are guys he would struggle against? Dusty sat him almost randomly last year, more often against LHP, but it's not like there are a ton of dominant LHP in the NL anyway. So no, I don't think his OPS+ would have been significantly different and you have nothing but speculation to support your claim that it would be.

 

And oh, as far as sitting Walker against LHP - his OPS against lefties last year was .980, so that doesn't really help you. Walker was having a very solid year last year and Soriano was struggling. In '05 (and 04) Walker was just the better player.

 

I'll look for his plaque in Cooperstown in a few years.

 

It'll be right next to Soriano's.

Posted
I guess you and the baseball world just don't understand what a great player Todd Walker really is. This argument is beyond funny, trying to ignore xbase hits, RBI's, SB's. You are correct, but yet people actually have the insane idea that during a career that Walker is a better player. This is the same insane argument over the winter when people actually tried to say that Walker's numbers were better than Tejada's. Most teams feel the total offensive player is more important than the all mighty OBP>

 

The best part about arguing w/you is seeing how you'll twist other people's posts. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.

 

And I don't recall seeing anyone say that Walker has had a better career. Soriano had 2 really good seasons in NY and 1 this year. Walker has had 2 solid seasons in '04 and '05, and a good year in '98. But Soriano, esp given that he's 3-4 years younger, is the more valuable player going forward. The arguments have been this:

 

1. Soriano is not a superstar, based on production; he's only a "superstar" b/c of his big salary and hype, and

 

2. Walker was the better player in '04 and '05.

 

If you want to present any evidence or arguments to refute either of those claims, great. But I imagine, like always, you'll twist this post to say I'm campaiging to put Walker in the HOF or something.

Posted
So you're really just removing Soriano's stats against a small group of pitchers that he's performed poorly against. Of course his stats are better if you remove 100 bad ABs. That doesn't really prove anything though, does it?

 

I think the point was that Walker's stats in 2004 and 2005 were artificially inflated by keeping him on the bench against tough lefties. Put another way, do you think Walker's OPS+ in those years would have been just as high if he played every day?

 

Who are "tough lefties"? As noises pointed out, Soriano's struggled against some good pitchers (Harden, etc) and also some average to bad pitchers (Washburn, Kennedy). So if you hand pick the guys that a player struggles against and remove those ABs, yes, his #s will go up. But how do you know that the guys Walker didn't face are guys he would struggle against? Dusty sat him almost randomly last year, more often against LHP, but it's not like there are a ton of dominant LHP in the NL anyway. So no, I don't think his OPS+ would have been significantly different and you have nothing but speculation to support your claim that it would be.

 

And oh, as far as sitting Walker against LHP - his OPS against lefties last year was .980, so that doesn't really help you. Walker was having a very solid year last year and Soriano was struggling. In '05 (and 04) Walker was just the better player.

 

I'll look for his plaque in Cooperstown in a few years.

 

No one will ever believe me, but I hadn't read this when I was typing my last post. This is simply hysterical to me.

 

I said "Walker was a better player than a guy who was league average for 2 years."

 

You read" Walker belongs in the HOF"

Posted
. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.

 

.

That is the most hysterical thing I have ever read. According to who? Just ignore the 30 hr vs 10, just ignore the rest of the numbers all you wish, but nobody in the whole baseball world will ever tell you Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Soriano. Twist your numbers all you wish, but the fact doesn't change-Todd Walker is, has been and will always be a lesser player than Soriano, except maybe in your fantasy league.

If Walker is so good at things, why hasn't anyone traded for him when he has been available for almost two years? Hendry overvaluing him, I certainly doubt it.

Posted
. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.
That is the most hysterical thing I have ever read. According to who? Just ignore the 30 hr vs 10, just ignore the rest of the numbers all you wish, but nobody in the whole baseball world will ever tell you Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Soriano. Twist your numbers all you wish, but the fact doesn't change-Todd Walker is, has been and will always be a lesser player than Soriano, except maybe in your fantasy league.

If Walker is so good at things, why hasn't anyone traded for him when he has been available for almost two years? Hendry overvaluing him, I certainly doubt it.

 

Walker was the better player in '05. I just don't know how to make it any clearer.

 

Walker's .355 OBP and .829 OPS > Soriano's .309 OBP, .821 OPS, and 30/30 year.

Posted
It is interesting that no one has offered enough to JH to get him to pull the trigger on Walk. He makes a lot of sense for a small mkt team that puts a value on metrics, as his production at the plate is good relative to his salary. An AL team like Oakland or Toronto could let him play some 2B and DH and make good use of him. I still don't get why no has wanted him for two years. Something is up there.
Posted
It is interesting that no one has offered enough to JH to get him to pull the trigger on Walk. He makes a lot of sense for a small mkt team that puts a value on metrics, as his production at the plate is good relative to his salary. An AL team like Oakland or Toronto could let him play some 2B and DH and make good use of him. I still don't get why no has wanted him for two years. Something is up there.

 

A combination of a bad defensive reputation and a suspect attitude (not my feelings, just a hunch based on baseball cliche-driven GM's) is probably partly to blame. Also, he just hasn't been that productive for us this season.

Posted
. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.
That is the most hysterical thing I have ever read. According to who? Just ignore the 30 hr vs 10, just ignore the rest of the numbers all you wish, but nobody in the whole baseball world will ever tell you Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Soriano. Twist your numbers all you wish, but the fact doesn't change-Todd Walker is, has been and will always be a lesser player than Soriano, except maybe in your fantasy league.

If Walker is so good at things, why hasn't anyone traded for him when he has been available for almost two years? Hendry overvaluing him, I certainly doubt it.

 

Walker was the better player in '05. I just don't know how to make it any clearer.

 

Walker's .355 OBP and .829 OPS > Soriano's .309 OBP, .821 OPS, and 30/30 year.

 

Todd Walker has had 5 years with at least 581 plate appearances - his OPS in those years:

1998 -.845 (buoyed by a career high .316BA, which he has never come close to duplicating)

1999 - .740

2001 - .814 (buoyed by half a year in Colorado where he posted a .497 SLG; his 2nd half in CIN posted a .418 SLG)

2002 - .785

2003 - .760

 

This tells me that if Walker was given 600PA in 05, his OPS would likely have been worse than Soriano's. Walker has only put up an OPS over .821 once in his career while playing full-time, and he was 25 when he did it.

 

I do think Walker has been a tremendous value for the Cubs, but he brings nothing special to the table. He gets on base at a respectable clip - but he's nothing special in terms of SLG or tools. Soriano at least gives you corner OF caliber SLG from second base, and has speed to steal bases and take extra bases. Given the choice at any time over the course of their careers, I'd take Soriano over Walker in a heartbeat. Even in 05.

Old-Timey Member
Posted

I have little to add, but someone said earlier that KW doesn't like trading major league level players. I then find it interesting that he shipped Carlos Lee - a pretty solid outfielder with two years left before hitting FA - for Scott Podsednik, who had been up to then decidedly mediocre - heck, he had a sub 320 OBP in 2004, which is just plain bad - and isn't even a very good fielder. I would also mention trading away a decent CF in Aaron Rowand for Thome, but even an idiot could see he was making out like a bandit in that deal.

 

Re: Walker's 2005 - he was doing very well when Carlos Lee went spikes up into him in April that season, and did very well after he came back. Maybe it was just an aberration, but somehow it seems to me that Walker was having a solid 2005 no matter how many AB's he got.

Posted
Todd Walker has had 5 years with at least 581 plate appearances - his OPS in those years:

1998 -.845 (buoyed by a career high .316BA, which he has never come close to duplicating)

1999 - .740

2001 - .814 (buoyed by half a year in Colorado where he posted a .497 SLG; his 2nd half in CIN posted a .418 SLG)

2002 - .785

2003 - .760

 

This tells me that if Walker was given 600PA in 05, his OPS would likely have been worse than Soriano's. Walker has only put up an OPS over .821 once in his career while playing full-time, and he was 25 when he did it.

 

I do think Walker has been a tremendous value for the Cubs, but he brings nothing special to the table. He gets on base at a respectable clip - but he's nothing special in terms of SLG or tools. Soriano at least gives you corner OF caliber SLG from second base, and has speed to steal bases and take extra bases. Given the choice at any time over the course of their careers, I'd take Soriano over Walker in a heartbeat. Even in 05.

 

Those stats tell me nothing. I don't see how they support your claim that he would have done worse in '05 if he'd played more. Nothing about his '05 stats indicate that he would have been worse if he had had another 150 PAs (esp since he was destroying LHP that year). He was just having a good year last year, for whatever reason.

 

But still, you either aren't understanding the point I'm making or you're just not fully reading my posts. I'm not arguing that someone would take Walker over Soriano ever, even in '05. I'm simply saying Walker was the better player in '05. Soriano has always had more tools and potential (and hype), he's a few years younger, and frankly GMs are enamored with what he does (homers and SBs) and undervalue the things he does poorly (OBP) so they overlook that. But if given the choice to have Soriano or Walker, you'd take Soriano - b/c Soriano has the potential to put up those near-.900 OPS's he had in NY (or to have a career year - like this year). Walker's never been a .900 OPS player. He gets on at a good clip (.350-ish) and he'll give you a little pop most years (he's 34 now, so a rapid decline is not wholly unexpected). No one is saying that at their best, Walker is better than Soriano. We're just saying that in 2005, Walker performed better. Why that's so hard to accept, I don't know.

Posted
It is interesting that no one has offered enough to JH to get him to pull the trigger on Walk. He makes a lot of sense for a small mkt team that puts a value on metrics, as his production at the plate is good relative to his salary. An AL team like Oakland or Toronto could let him play some 2B and DH and make good use of him. I still don't get why no has wanted him for two years. Something is up there.

 

A combination of a bad defensive reputation and a suspect attitude (not my feelings, just a hunch based on baseball cliche-driven GM's) is probably partly to blame. Also, he just hasn't been that productive for us this season.

 

Are you saying Beane and Riccardi subscribe to these so-called "baseball cliches"? Walker makes a heck of a lot of sense for both teams, particularly the A's, who are struggling with their bats this year. Moreover, I would think any GM doing his homework would note that Walker's sporadic playing time has had a lot to do with his relative lack of production.

Posted
. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.

That is the most hysterical thing I have ever read. According to who? Just ignore the 30 hr vs 10, just ignore the rest of the numbers all you wish, but nobody in the whole baseball world will ever tell you Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Soriano. Twist your numbers all you wish, but the fact doesn't change-Todd Walker is, has been and will always be a lesser player than Soriano, except maybe in your fantasy league.

If Walker is so good at things, why hasn't anyone traded for him when he has been available for almost two years? Hendry overvaluing him, I certainly doubt it.

 

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT TODD WALKER IS A BETTER BALLPLAYER THAN SORIANO

Posted
. No one is ignoring XBH, RBI, or SB - though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they did. A guy w/ a .350 OBP is better than a guy with a .300 OBP and 30 steals.

That is the most hysterical thing I have ever read. According to who? Just ignore the 30 hr vs 10, just ignore the rest of the numbers all you wish, but nobody in the whole baseball world will ever tell you Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Soriano. Twist your numbers all you wish, but the fact doesn't change-Todd Walker is, has been and will always be a lesser player than Soriano, except maybe in your fantasy league.

If Walker is so good at things, why hasn't anyone traded for him when he has been available for almost two years? Hendry overvaluing him, I certainly doubt it.

 

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT TODD WALKER IS A BETTER BALLPLAYER THAN SORIANO

 

Thanks. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get my point across - font size. Never made the connection.

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