Pierre?

[CubColtPacer]

i think in Hendry's eye's Juan's recent resurgence will justify an extension-he gave up 3 arms for this guy, and he wants to stay in Chicago- re-sign him and move on- We arent going to be creative enough to get a lead-off/ tablesetter type player via trade so just sign him and Carlos Lee and then get the pitching shored up-

 

That's not nearly enough to make this team contend.

 

Really? Assuming that we pick up a player somewhat like Walker to play short (I'll use his name here, even though I don't expect him to be here next season), that would give us a lineup of:

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Lee

Barrett

Jones/Murton

Cedeno

 

That's a pretty nice lineup. Cedeno if he plays like he has this year is mostly a hole down in the 8 spot, but his stats are probably only going to go up from this year, not down. A Jones and Murton platoon is going to give you good production out of right field to go with Lee's good production out of left (not great like this year-but good). If we shored up the pitching like the person said by signing a starter or two, that team could certainly contend.

yes.. but thats also asuming the we get Carlos to come here.

 

Of course-and I don't expect Carlos Lee to come here. I do dispute the contention though that if we got Lee along with some pitching help that we wouldn't be a contending team though. To be around 10th in offense, you need on average between a .760 and a .785 OPS for your team. At least 5 of the 9 spots in the lineup would have that OPS or better in that lineup, and some of them have enough more than that to make up for Cedeno and the pitcher at the bottom of the lineup.

[A New Era]

i think in Hendry's eye's Juan's recent resurgence will justify an extension-he gave up 3 arms for this guy, and he wants to stay in Chicago- re-sign him and move on- We arent going to be creative enough to get a lead-off/ tablesetter type player via trade so just sign him and Carlos Lee and then get the pitching shored up-

 

That's not nearly enough to make this team contend.

 

In THIS division? I think it does. But I agree on a personal level, I wan't more to really put us over the top.

[Monco]

My guess is....Pierre stays and signs a 2 yr deal for roughly the amount he made this yr. Pierre stays, because there really is no other STRONG candidate to replace in CF.

 

Pierre stays.

 

 

Are you thinking 2 years and $12M with a mutual (includes vesting) option for the 3rd year?

 

Probably higher .The Cubs usually overpay.

[dvdd127]

Yes. The Cubs usually overpay. But in this case the have to do whatever they can to keep Pierre.

 

And as for that being enough to content. Well, I will say I know its not.. but we still need to have a leadoff man that is at least average.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd rather spend to sign Matthews than retain Pierre.

[dvdd127]

I'd rather spend to sign Matthews than retain Pierre.

I wouldnt... Pierre is 3 years younger.

[KaiserCesar]

I'd rather spend to sign Matthews than retain Pierre.

I wouldnt... Pierre is 3 years younger.

 

I'm not on board with signing either Mattews or Pierre. Matthews career numbers aren't too awe-inspring, he's getting into his 30's and he's having a career year that's going to cost a lot. Pie likely won't be ready at the start of next year, but I think he's close enough where you could plan on him in 08 with a good degree of certainty. Dave Roberts could be a cheap, 1 year option, with possibilities of Chris Walker or another minor leaguer. I'd prefer to go cheap in some way and leave money for a corner OF via trade of free agency and also a good front 3 starter.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd take Roberts over Pierre as well. I'd advoacte using Jones in CF over Pierre too.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I'd take Roberts over Pierre as well. I'd advoacte using Jones in CF over Pierre too.

 

Imo, Dave Roberts wouldn't be a bad choice for a year until Pie is ready. He would probably cost about half the price of Pierre and provide essentially the same in production.

[baseball7897]

I'd take Roberts over Pierre as well. I'd advoacte using Jones in CF over Pierre too.

 

Imo, Dave Roberts wouldn't be a bad choice for a year until Pie is ready. He would probably cost about half the price of Pierre and provide essentially the same in production.

 

Pierre and Roberts seem to be the same kind of player.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I'd take Roberts over Pierre as well. I'd advoacte using Jones in CF over Pierre too.

 

Imo, Dave Roberts wouldn't be a bad choice for a year until Pie is ready. He would probably cost about half the price of Pierre and provide essentially the same in production.

 

Pierre and Roberts seem to be the same kind of player.

 

True....Roberts has better arm, however. But then again who doesn't?

[Fred Hornkohl]

probably a terrible example, but last year, DLee hit 99 points worse in avg, 72 points worse in obp, and 152 points worse in SLG in the second half.

 

Crap happens. . . .season is long. . . blah blah blah.

 

 

No doubt Pierre was terrible to start out, but sometimes that happens when switching teams (sometimes it doesn't). Still, you gotta give the guy credit for picking it up lately.

 

What drives me nuts is that even with Pierre's surge, we're not scoring runs much better than before.

 

Using the same time split as I had for Pierre's production......

 

Dates               R     R/G
04/03 - 05/18     151    3.78
05/19 - 07/23     245    4.30

[CubsBullsBears]

How about getting a lead-off hitter who can hit in April and May?? If Pierre can't I want him out. He sucks on defense and his arm is a noodle.

[A New Era]

How about getting a lead-off hitter who can hit in April and May?? If Pierre can't I want him out. He sucks on defense and his arm is a noodle.

 

Don't be so quick to want him gone. His replacement could be much much worse. And won't beable to steal 50 bases either.

 

I'd rather have a hitter who is hot in sept-oct to be honest. As long as it all evens out to around a .290 BA and a .340 OBP I am happy. If peirre can get it up to that for the year, I'm all for having him back. And working on the other positions for improvement. SP, SP, LF, SS, 2B.

[Outshined_One]

My problem with Pierre is that his production is so heavily average-driven...which is troubling considering how few line drives he hits. I believe he leads the league in IF hits, meaning the majority of his game is based on defensive mistakes, pitch placement, and other factors that can heavily contribute to inconsistency. Couple that with the fact that he's getting older and will start losing a step or two, I question the value of re-signing him, especially as a leadoff hitter.

 

The minors don't currently have guys who could take over immediately. Pie likely won't be ready on Opening Day 2007. Walker is really fast, but I question how ready he is, as well. I'm really leery of Miguel Negron.

 

Best option would be to shift Jock to CF and acquire a RF, imo. The Cubs will lose some range, but I think it would be better for the offense to pick up a guy like Abreu, Lee, or whomever for RF.

 

Let some one else convince themselves of Pierre's worth and overpay for him.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I'd take Roberts over Pierre as well. I'd advoacte using Jones in CF over Pierre too.

 

Roberts, I MIGHT be interested in depending the $$$. But I do NOT adovcate Jones in CF. I know he can play it, but considering Jones ahs played like Moises Alou in right, I don't want to see him having to cover CF. Personally, I would like the Cubs to move Jacque to LEFT field, and get a LEGITIMATE RFer.

[bhogg]

probably a terrible example, but last year, DLee hit 99 points worse in avg, 72 points worse in obp, and 152 points worse in SLG in the second half.

 

Crap happens. . . .season is long. . . blah blah blah.

 

 

No doubt Pierre was terrible to start out, but sometimes that happens when switching teams (sometimes it doesn't). Still, you gotta give the guy credit for picking it up lately.

 

What drives me nuts is that even with Pierre's surge, we're not scoring runs much better than before.

 

Using the same time split as I had for Pierre's production......

 

Dates               R     R/G
04/03 - 05/18     151    3.78
05/19 - 07/23     245    4.30

 

 

 

Wow, it sure seemed as though we weren't doing much better. Were the Cubs' W/L figures better or worse in those stretches?

[Fred Hornkohl]

probably a terrible example, but last year, DLee hit 99 points worse in avg, 72 points worse in obp, and 152 points worse in SLG in the second half.

 

Crap happens. . . .season is long. . . blah blah blah.

 

 

No doubt Pierre was terrible to start out, but sometimes that happens when switching teams (sometimes it doesn't). Still, you gotta give the guy credit for picking it up lately.

 

What drives me nuts is that even with Pierre's surge, we're not scoring runs much better than before.

 

Using the same time split as I had for Pierre's production......

 

Dates               R     R/G
04/03 - 05/18     151    3.78
05/19 - 07/23     245    4.30

 

 

 

Wow, it sure seemed as though we weren't doing much better. Were the Cubs' W/L figures better or worse in those stretches?

 

Dates                W     L     Pct
04/03 - 05/18       17    23    .425
05/19 - 07/23       20    37    .351

 

One good reason for this disparity is.......

 

CUBS                 IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR    PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
04/03 - 05/18     351.0  313  193  179  173  305   48  5923  4.44  7.82  1.23  1.38  4.59
05/19 - 07/23     499.7  515  308  280  231  419   82  8552  4.16  7.55  1.48  1.49  5.04

04/03 - 07/23     850.7  828  501  459  404  724  130 14475  4.27  7.66  1.38  1.45  4.86

[CubbieRich]

Wait, wasn't the idea to get *better* in some way? Izturis is a younger Neifi without the pop. WE ALREADY HAVE NEIFI. Josh Fields is a 3B prospect who hasn't OPS'd over .780 since being drafted and doesn't look to be any more of a solution in the immediate than the Cubs' own Scott Moore (I assume the glove is better, but still). Besides salary dumping, how does this improve the cubs at all? And why Sweeney? He doesn't look that impressive, and if he was that ready to play everyday, wouldn't the Sox use him to fix their apparent CF problem anyway?

 

Yes, it does improve a team that hovers at the 25 games under .500 mark. Hendry must rebuild the team on pitching and defense. Izturis is 6 years younger than your Neifi and was an All-Star SS. You then move Ronnie Cedeno to 2nd. EPatt doesn't appear ready.

 

Josh Fields hustles, which ARam does not. When this club needed ARam to step up and earn his money, he showed he is weak stock. Trade now while the value is high. Fields is stuck in the minors because of Joe Crede and the talk was the White Sox may want him to learn the OF. Sweeney is a corner OF that is a year away. The Sox have played him in CF but he is a corner guy.

 

Hendry will have at least $25 million+ to spend over the winter. I hope it's a big bat and at least a #2-3 pitcher.

[Guest]

Wasn't this guy going to save us when he came back? :D

[Warpticon]

Wait, wasn't the idea to get *better* in some way? Izturis is a younger Neifi without the pop. WE ALREADY HAVE NEIFI. Josh Fields is a 3B prospect who hasn't OPS'd over .780 since being drafted and doesn't look to be any more of a solution in the immediate than the Cubs' own Scott Moore (I assume the glove is better, but still). Besides salary dumping, how does this improve the cubs at all? And why Sweeney? He doesn't look that impressive, and if he was that ready to play everyday, wouldn't the Sox use him to fix their apparent CF problem anyway?

 

Yes, it does improve a team that hovers at the 25 games under .500 mark. Hendry must rebuild the team on pitching and defense. Izturis is 6 years younger than your Neifi and was an All-Star SS. You then move Ronnie Cedeno to 2nd. EPatt doesn't appear ready.

 

Josh Fields hustles, which ARam does not. When this club needed ARam to step up and earn his money, he showed he is weak stock. Trade now while the value is high. Fields is stuck in the minors because of Joe Crede and the talk was the White Sox may want him to learn the OF. Sweeney is a corner OF that is a year away. The Sox have played him in CF but he is a corner guy.

 

Hendry will have at least $25 million+ to spend over the winter. I hope it's a big bat and at least a #2-3 pitcher.

 

Izturis may have been an All-Star, but he's not very good at anything but catching the ball. We already are stuck with neifi, we don't need two of them.

 

if your argument for Fields over Aramis is that Fields hustles and Aramis doesn't, well, then, I guess there's no point of discussing it. Suffice it to say that in this proposal, the Cubs aren't doing anything but dumping salary (and giving away a productive bat in the process) with the hopes of signing a productive bat in the offseason. Makes no sense. "Rebuild the team on pitching and defense" sure won't help the worst offense in the NL, and losing 3-2 instead of 4-2 won't be worth getting excited over.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Wait, wasn't the idea to get *better* in some way? Izturis is a younger Neifi without the pop. WE ALREADY HAVE NEIFI. Josh Fields is a 3B prospect who hasn't OPS'd over .780 since being drafted and doesn't look to be any more of a solution in the immediate than the Cubs' own Scott Moore (I assume the glove is better, but still). Besides salary dumping, how does this improve the cubs at all? And why Sweeney? He doesn't look that impressive, and if he was that ready to play everyday, wouldn't the Sox use him to fix their apparent CF problem anyway?

 

Yes, it does improve a team that hovers at the 25 games under .500 mark. Hendry must rebuild the team on pitching and defense. Izturis is 6 years younger than your Neifi and was an All-Star SS. You then move Ronnie Cedeno to 2nd. EPatt doesn't appear ready.

 

Josh Fields hustles, which ARam does not. When this club needed ARam to step up and earn his money, he showed he is weak stock. Trade now while the value is high. Fields is stuck in the minors because of Joe Crede and the talk was the White Sox may want him to learn the OF. Sweeney is a corner OF that is a year away. The Sox have played him in CF but he is a corner guy.

 

Hendry will have at least $25 million+ to spend over the winter. I hope it's a big bat and at least a #2-3 pitcher.

 

1) Izturis does nothing more than cement the theory that this management team has no clue. He belongs on a team loaded with offense.

 

2) I'd rather have a productive hitter who doesn't hustle.

[dvdd127]

Wasn't this guy going to save us when he came back? :D

According to Dust Man yes..... but I knew he wouldnt do jacksqat for us.

[UMFan83]

Those who say that Pierre will stay....have you considered the fact that Pierre won't want to stay? He hasn't been given a great impression that the Cubs are going to be good anytime soon.

 

*apoligize if this has already been brought up, I only read the first page*

[CubbieRich]

2) I'd rather have a productive hitter who doesn't hustle.

 

When was that productivity exactly? Was that when the club needed him to step up and be a leader, when DLee was out.

 

This guy has a history of not caring, making bad decisions and not hustling. Just like Kerry Wood, I expect the highest paid players on the team to do produce and be a leader. Not too much to ask.