Beltran?

[Quakers]

No that we all have the benefit of hindsight, I want to know the boards opinion.

 

A few years ago we had a chance for Beltran, but the Mutts paid dearly for him. At the time the board consensus was that he was paid too much and Hendry was smart to let him go. But now the Mutts are the star team in the NL and the Cubs well...., doesn't the thought of Beltran roaming center seem nice. Especially when you think that that would mean no Pierre and we would still have Nolasco and Pinto.

 

Well what do you think?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The Mets are good for many more reasons.

[rawaction]

I probably would have paid Beltran the money in the first place and took my chances. As I said when he was signed last January.

 

The Cubs are one of the largest market teams in the league. They missed out on Beltran and Drew because they didn't want to spend the money with Sosa on the books in the OF. They missed out on Tejada because they had Alex Gonzalez on the books at SS. They missed out on Vlad because they had Alou on the books in the OF. NOT SAYING THE CUBS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ANY OF THOSE 4 PLAYERS! But a team with the Cubs' resources should have at least taken a shot. There's really no reason that when every free agent comes up the name Chicago Cubs should follow New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, and Los Angeles Dodgers in the likely destination discussion.

[Quakers]

The Mets are good for many more reasons.

 

True, one reason Beltran is having a good year is that the Mets now have Delgado to back him up.

[Quakers]

I probably would have paid Beltran the money in the first place and took my chances. As I said when he was signed last January.

 

The Cubs are one of the largest market teams in the league. They missed out on Beltran and Drew because they didn't want to spend the money with Sosa on the books in the OF. They missed out on Tejada because they had Alex Gonzalez on the books at SS. They missed out on Vlad because they had Alou on the books in the OF. NOT SAYING THE CUBS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ANY OF THOSE 4 PLAYERS! But a team with the Cubs' resources should have at least taken a shot. There's really no reason that when every free agent comes up the name Chicago Cubs should follow New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, and Los Angeles Dodgers in the likely destination discussion.

 

I tend to sympathize with this position. Why do we pay top dollar for mediocre talent.

[rawaction]

The Mets are good for many more reasons.

 

True, one reason Beltran is having a good year is that the Mets now have Delgado to back him up.

 

Beltran, Reyes, and Wright have been the best players at their positions in the NL this year. Possibly in all of baseball. Add Delgado and Loduca who have been top 3-4 at 1B and C respectively, and there you go.

[KaiserCesar]

Umm, maybe you didn't get the news, but we already have a Carlos Beltran coming back from the DL.

 

Just in time to save the pennant race.

[goonys evil twin]

I really wanted Beltran, but understood the concern over finances.

 

 

My theory is, however, that if you are going to overspend on players, overspend on players who have a chance to be great. Overspend on guys who can make a difference. I'd rather overspend by $5m/year on a star than $1.5-2m/year on multipe crap players.

[soapy]

Goony and raw are right. It's okay to overspend when it's for someone like Beltran (Vlad, Arod, etc.). Those are players that can make a difference. That also allows you to work in some younger (i.e. cheaper) players to develop.

 

Last year would have been painful, but this year they would be (and the Mets are) reaping the benefits of that "gamble".

[Lefty]

Count me as one of those on record as saying we should have paid Beltran the $$. Look at all the money we spend on garbage. Beltran's bucks could have prevented a whole lot of mischief if Hendry was truly on a budget. Firing Hendry is more important than firing Baker (though firing Baker is important too).

[soccer10k]

I wanted Beltran as well and thought they should have given him the money he wanted. They would have only had Sosa and Beltran on the books for one year and then Sosa would have been gone.

[cheapseats]

The Mets are good for many more reasons.

 

True, one reason Beltran is having a good year is that the Mets now have Delgado to back him up.

 

Beltran, Reyes, and Wright have been the best players at their positions in the NL this year. Possibly in all of baseball. Add Delgado and Loduca who have been top 3-4 at 1B and C respectively, and there you go.

 

Beltran and Reyes have definitely been the best in the NL. Wright should probably get the nod over Cabrera because his defense is better.

 

Loduca, though, hasn't had a season to write home about. There are a dozen catchers in the NL alone that are having better years offensively, and he's been below average defensively.

 

As for Delgado, he might not even be in the top half of NL firstbasemen. Pujols, Berkman, Garciaparra, Nick Johnson, Howard, Helton, and Fielder have all been better thus far. And Derrek Lee can reasonably be expected to put up better numbers now that he's back. One could even argue that Delgado hasn't played significantly better than Mike Jacobs, whom the Mets traded to Florida for Delgado.

 

Anyway, these 5 players for the Cubs make $13,575,000 this year:

 

Juan Pierre

Neifi Perez

John Mabry

Henry Blanco

Glendon Rusch

 

Each one of those players has performed BELOW replacement level, meaning we could expect the same performance or better had we brought up minor league players instead.

 

Carlos Beltran makes $13,571,000 this year. So he would have cost us a little less than Pierre, Perez, Mabry, Blanco, and Rusch.

[NCCubFan]

Just imagine if we had Lee, Ramirez, and Beltran in the lineup. This year would have been entirely different than the reality we're being tormented with. And if they also had the brains to re-sign Nomar on top of that,..... =P~

 

But no. Who needs players like Beltran and Nomar, when we have studs like Neifi, Pierre, Mabry, and Bynum?

[TheDude]

I wanted Beltran several years ago when he was with KC. I thought the Cubs could have dealt Corey Patterson for him the year before he was traded to Houston.

 

But back then folks questioned the move, stating that CP was going to equal or better Beltran's production [shrug].

[Tracer Bullet]

I wanted Beltran several years ago when he was with KC. I thought the Cubs could have dealt Corey Patterson for him the year before he was traded to Houston.

 

But back then folks questioned the move, stating that CP was going to equal or better Beltran's production [shrug].

 

If Beltran was subjected to Baker, Clines, etc for the last few years, there's no telling how bad he'd be now.

[YearofDaCubs]

With MacPhail's philosophy we will never sign the top free agent available and that bothers me. I simply do not see the Cubs being successful until the 3 stooges are gone.

[NewUserName]

I am not a big fan of building a team through free agency. However I am a fan of enhancing a team through free agency. I think it would have been fairly easy for the Cubs last off season to pick up Beltran. Than if they(Dusty) would have been smart enough to just bat TWalker lead-off and let CPatt play rf and bat 7th. Than having Dubois out in Left wouldnt have hurt nearly as much and he may have developed, with Hollandsworth as a fourth outfielder. When garciaparra got hurt playing Cedeno instead of Perez. Somehow I think we would be coming into this season with a lot better of an outlook. We probably would have come to the conclusion that Dubois isnt a everyday player but a good rh power hitter on the bench. Make decision to keep Garciaparra as a super sub at 1st, 2nd 3rd ss and lf where he would get 5 starts a week and we could be looking at a roster more like this.

 

Twalker 2b

Cedeno ss

DLee 1b

Beltran cf

Aram 3b

JJones rf

Barrett c

Patterson lf

 

bench

 

Garciaparra Dubois Murton Blanco and Theriot or Fontenot

 

Add a solid starter with what we added to the bullpen. Could mix Murton and Dubois in against Lhers. We would have better depth in case of injury(like lees). Still not perfect but how much better we would be with just a couple of good decisions. Murton could have even stayed at AAA and had Theriot and Fontenot on the team. Yes the payroll would have to increase but some of that would be offset by having players like Dubois, Murton, Cedeno, Theriot and Fontenot as role players and not expecting them to carry team. Also would still have value in our system if we needed to improve at the deadline.

 

So basically picking up Beltran with the current manager and staff would probably have just been a disaster that we would be talking about who we could get for in a trade at the deadline for. Only to be paying most of his contract next year while he was playing MVP level ball somewhere else

[soccer10k]

I wanted Beltran several years ago when he was with KC. I thought the Cubs could have dealt Corey Patterson for him the year before he was traded to Houston.

 

But back then folks questioned the move, stating that CP was going to equal or better Beltran's production [shrug].

 

If Beltran was subjected to Baker, Clines, etc for the last few years, there's no telling how bad he'd be now.

 

But Beltran would still have his speed. And you know what people say about speed...

[bleedcubbieblue]

True, one reason Beltran is having a good year is that the Mets now have Delgado to back him up.

 

So I guess having D Lee behind him would have been a good thing. Same could be said if they had signed Tejada or Vlad when they had the opportunity. The extent at which the Cubune explains fiscal responsibilty to NOT sign a player is one of the main reasons why they currently have this heap called the Cubs this year. Fiscal responsibility means having to overpay for a superior ball player, which down the line will pay dividends. Instead we get scrap heap players signing multi million dollar contracts for multiple years. The way this ball club was put together and how poor a job the front office is doing, is speaking volumes this year.

 

BCB

[soccer10k]

Anyway, these 5 players for the Cubs make $13,575,000 this year:

 

Juan Pierre

Neifi Perez

John Mabry

Henry Blanco

Glendon Rusch

 

Each one of those players has performed BELOW replacement level, meaning we could expect the same performance or better had we brought up minor league players instead.

 

Carlos Beltran makes $13,571,000 this year. So he would have cost us a little less than Pierre, Perez, Mabry, Blanco, and Rusch.

 

Wow. Thanks for the numbers.

[goonys evil twin]

True, one reason Beltran is having a good year is that the Mets now have Delgado to back him up.

 

So I guess having D Lee behind him would have been a good thing. Same could be said if they had signed Tejada or Vlad when they had the opportunity. The extent at which the Cubune explains fiscal responsibilty to NOT sign a player is one of the main reasons why they currently have this heap called the Cubs this year. Fiscal responsibility means having to overpay for a superior ball player, which down the line will pay dividends. Instead we get scrap heap players signing multi million dollar contracts for multiple years. The way this ball club was put together and how poor a job the front office is doing, is speaking volumes this year.

 

BCB

 

The thing is, the money was available to afford these guys, they chose to spread it out, however, on much less valuable guys. Their theory was 5 players costing $15m is better than 1 guy costing $15m, but it's just not true when 4 of those guys can be replaced with guys making the minimum.

[JC]

Raw and I were probably the most vocal proponents of landing Beltran.

 

Of course, Hendry never got serious about Beltran. Its yet another example of his failure to look to the future and available players in future FA markets.

[cheapseats]

Beltran's salary in 2005 was $11.6 million.

 

Todd Hollandsworth was signed as a free agent for $900,000.

Neifi was signed as a free agent for $1 million.

Blanco was signed as a free agent for $1.2 million.

Rusch was given a contract for $2 million.

Burnitz made $4.5 million.

 

Add Hairston's $1.8 million, and that all adds up to $11.4 million.

 

And that doesn't take Nomar's $8 million into account.

 

As Goony says over and over again, the Cubs could afford first tier free agents, but they unwisely overpay for role players and mediocre talent.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was a big proponent of getting Beltran, but when he signed I wasn't upset that Hendry didn't go that high. In hindsight I realize that if you are going to gamble on a big contract, a player like Beltran is exactly who it should be on.

[jtownie]

Beltran's salary in 2005 was $11.6 million.

 

Todd Hollandsworth was signed as a free agent for $900,000.

Neifi was signed as a free agent for $1 million.

Blanco was signed as a free agent for $1.2 million.

Rusch was given a contract for $2 million.

Burnitz made $4.5 million.

 

Add Hairston's $1.8 million, and that all adds up to $11.4 million.

 

And that doesn't take Nomar's $8 million into account.

 

As Goony says over and over again, the Cubs could afford first tier free agents, but they unwisely overpay for role players and mediocre talent.

 

Yeah I guess it's always better to overpay for top-tier talent than it is to overpay for mediocre and less-then-mediocre talent.