Aram or Jacque to the Angels?

[ltb]

I believe Mora is a free agent. He's just as good an overall player as Aramis and may be cheaper.

 

ummmmmmm no he is not a free agent, and "just as good an overall player" is arguable.

even if he was going to be a FA, he is 34.

[BigbadB]

Then what do the Cubs do at 3rd base next year and beyond? Theriot and Moore don't seem like longterm solutions to fill the void.

 

Thank you.

 

Jered Weaver under control for six years or possibly losing Aramis for nothing at season's end? hmmm....

 

If we are going to analyze it like this, shouldn't we assume that the Angels would need to look at it like that also?

 

Why would they trade Weaver for a guy who could opt out of his contract at the end of this year?

[bhogg]

Then what do the Cubs do at 3rd base next year and beyond? Theriot and Moore don't seem like longterm solutions to fill the void.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Anything is possible with Trades.

 

Who knew DLee was a possibility back in the 03-04 off season?

 

 

If I'm the GM, I may not advertise who is available, but let's be honest --- everyone should have a price.

 

It's just like in our own lives. I may not advertise my house is for sale, but if the right deal were to come along, it's gone. Same with players. . . . Zambrano included.

 

 

Anyway, what team would trade position for position? If one player is better than the other, why trade? If they are equal, why trade?

 

 

Also, we can just have one of our secondbasemen play third. . . we'll just tell 'em to throw the ball harder ;)

[Mark_R]

Then what do the Cubs do at 3rd base next year and beyond? Theriot and Moore don't seem like longterm solutions to fill the void.

 

Thank you.

 

Jered Weaver under control for six years or possibly losing Aramis for nothing at season's end? hmmm....

 

If we are going to analyze it like this, shouldn't we assume that the Angels would need to look at it like that also?

 

Why would they trade Weaver for a guy who could opt out of his contract at the end of this year?

 

I'm looking at it from the same standpoint you were initially. Your comment was referencing the trade would be wrong because we'd be losing our third baseman. In no way did you make any mention of the Angels giving up Weaver.

 

And I believe they'd never go for it. If it was on the table, I'd be pissed at Hendry if he didn't bite.

[mhuber92211]

The Angels would be happy to give up on McPherson. He has worn out his welcome at the beginning of the year and is just starting to earn some of it back. I think that McPherson would be a throw in ala Murton in many a trade. The Angels need pen help as well as offense.

 

I think that the need for starting pitching on this team is not as great as better hitters. I would imagine that some of our starters would intrigue some clubs (Maddux would fit well with the Angels/Padres) and I think that we could have some nice building trades pretty soon.

 

I think that the Angels are NOT going to buyers but more likely to be sellers. It would not suprise me to see a Colon trade or a Garrett Anderson to the Yanks trade. I would imagine that the recent meetings between Owner/GM and manager were a discussion for how much do they want to fight this season and how much do they want to see the kids play.

[Guest]

1) Ramirez + Jones for Santana + Kendrick.

 

2) Trade the farm for Cabrera

 

3) Go after Abreu, JD Drew or other lefty hitting RF with decent power and great OBP in a trade

 

4) Sign Carlos Lee this offseason

 

5) Sign Zito

 

6) find a warm body for CF

 

----------------

 

Kendrick

Cabrera

Lee

Abreu

C. Lee

Barrett

Cedeno

CF

 

 

Z

Prior

Santana

Zito

whoever is left of Marshall/Marmol/Hill/Guzman/etc.

 

 

 

Naa...not realistic. But fun. :)

[Flames24Rulz]

If the Cubs would trade Ramirez to the Angels they better be getting John Lackey in return

 

Don't you think Weaver is better?

 

I like Lackey more than Weaver. Lackey did pick up the win in game 7 of the World Series as a rookie. He is a big game pitcher and he is still pretty young at the age of 27.

 

For some reason, I think you are talking about Jeff Weaver instead of Jered.

[RockTheIvy]

Unless Jered Weaver has a rubber arm like Carlos, the Cubs will break him too.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Then what do the Cubs do at 3rd base next year and beyond? Theriot and Moore don't seem like longterm solutions to fill the void.

 

Thank you.

 

Jered Weaver under control for six years or possibly losing Aramis for nothing at season's end? hmmm....

 

If we are going to analyze it like this, shouldn't we assume that the Angels would need to look at it like that also?

 

Why would they trade Weaver for a guy who could opt out of his contract at the end of this year?

 

Thank you for adding some sanity. =D>

 

To the proponents of a Weaver/Ramirez deal, how can any of you believe the Angels WOULD even consider offering Weaver for Ramirez?

 

Best guess...the Angels would prolly offer Saunders and perhaps MacPherson (who the Cubs don't need) instead of Weaver. In other words...Jered is a PIPEDREAM.

[RockTheIvy]

Then what do the Cubs do at 3rd base next year and beyond? Theriot and Moore don't seem like longterm solutions to fill the void.

 

Thank you.

 

Jered Weaver under control for six years or possibly losing Aramis for nothing at season's end? hmmm....

 

If we are going to analyze it like this, shouldn't we assume that the Angels would need to look at it like that also?

 

Why would they trade Weaver for a guy who could opt out of his contract at the end of this year?

 

Thank you for adding some sanity. =D>

 

To the proponents of a Weaver/Ramirez deal, how can any of you believe the Angels WOULD even consider offering Weaver for Ramirez?

 

Best guess...the Angels would prolly offer Saunders and perhaps MacPherson (who the Cubs don't need) instead of Weaver. In other words...Jered is a PIPEDREAM.

 

Even if we were to get Jered, the league's least potent offense would be losing it's main power threat. Which is why BBB's question about 3B is so important. Plus I know we would find a way to get Jered 140 pitches per game so he can do his Karen Wood impersonations for the rest of his shortened career.

[BigbadB]

Who knew DLee was a possibility back in the 03-04 off season?

 

Derrek Lee was a possibility back in the 03-04 offseason. Florida was trying to move him for pennies on the dollar. A few teams showed some interest, but not enough to take on his entire contract.

 

Derrek Lee was an average offensive 1b prior to his 2005 season with the Cubs.

 

When the Cubs traded Choi and Nannini for Lee prior to the '04 season, I don't think anyone here could visualize Lee putting up the '05 season that he did. It was a total salary dump from the Marlins side of this deal. Hendry got a steal of a deal, as Lee not only made it a totally lopsided trade, but he went from an overpaid, mediocre 1b to an underpaid all star 1b in 2005.

[jmajew]

Who knew DLee was a possibility back in the 03-04 off season?

 

Derrek Lee was a possibility back in the 03-04 offseason. Florida was trying to move him for pennies on the dollar. A few teams showed some interest, but not enough to take on his entire contract.

 

Derrek Lee was an average offensive 1b prior to his 2005 season with the Cubs.

 

When the Cubs traded Choi and Nannini for Lee prior to the '04 season, I don't think anyone here could visualize Lee putting up the '05 season that he did. It was a total salary dump from the Marlins side of this deal. Hendry got a steal of a deal, as Lee not only made it a totally lopsided trade, but he went from an overpaid, mediocre 1b to an underpaid all star 1b in 2005.

 

Do you consider a player with an OPS over 860 a bad player. Because in only one year since 2000 has Lee been below that and that was 2001. He always had a high OBP, always had atleast decnet power (since 2000 only one year below 28 homers), and you have to add in the facts he is great defensively and he is a great baserunner.

 

DLee was always a very good player. He was just always under appreciated.

 

Your example of the DLee trade is the perfect reason not to trade Aram for a prospect. You never trade a proven potential all star commodity for prospects, unless it is a complete salary dump. You could end up getting the shaft. Especially when the proven commodity is just turning 28. Yes, Aramis has his flaws but so does every player. That is what makes building a team so difficult. You need to find players who help to minimize their teamates flaws.

 

You know Aramis has minimal range at third so you get a shortstop that has a lot. You don't put three sub standard defensive outfielders all in the same outfield. It can only lead to problems. You can live with one bad defensive corner outfielder if you have a great centerfielder.

 

I know this gets annoying but i'm going to show you my perfect team for next year...that is reasonably possible for the Cubs to achieve. This is just to show how you need to build a team of players that compliment one another.

 

2b Walker

C Barrett

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Hunter

LF Jones/Murton

SS Cedeno

RF Pie

 

You can count on Walker and Barrett both to have OBP around 350 or better. Then you can expect DLees to be around 400 and Arams aroudn 350 and then Hunter aroudn 330. Jones/Murton will be about 360 when they are platooned. This Cubs team really doesn't need a lot of work on the offensive end. They just need to sign the right player. By the way Barrett is the perfect 2 hitter. HE doesn't strike out much and he has a high OBP so he knows how to take pitches.

 

Pitching it woudl be great to sign Zito and then go with Zambrano, Prior, Zito, Marshall, Maddux.

 

The outfield will be much better defensively with Hunter and Pie that it shoudl help the pitching staff quite a bit. We may not have the speed that Pierre brings this year but Pie, Hunter, Lee, Cedeno, and Jones all have decent speed.

[Neuby]

Who knew DLee was a possibility back in the 03-04 off season?

 

Derrek Lee was a possibility back in the 03-04 offseason. Florida was trying to move him for pennies on the dollar. A few teams showed some interest, but not enough to take on his entire contract.

 

Derrek Lee was an average offensive 1b prior to his 2005 season with the Cubs.

 

When the Cubs traded Choi and Nannini for Lee prior to the '04 season, I don't think anyone here could visualize Lee putting up the '05 season that he did. It was a total salary dump from the Marlins side of this deal. Hendry got a steal of a deal, as Lee not only made it a totally lopsided trade, but he went from an overpaid, mediocre 1b to an underpaid all star 1b in 2005.

 

Medicore? Please the Cubs traded a guy that probably won't be in baseball in two years for a first baseman at the time who was hitting well in a pitchers park and had plus speed and a gold glover. It was a steal then now it's grand larceny.

[BigbadB]

Medicore? Please the Cubs traded a guy that probably won't be in baseball in two years for a first baseman at the time who was hitting well in a pitchers park and had plus speed and a gold glover. It was a steal then now it's grand larceny.

 

I didn't say it wasn't a steal. Derrek Lee was one of the most discussed players available in trade the year prior to the Cubs getting him. Florida was totally dumping his salary, whether you wish to believe it or not.

 

Okay, slightly above average when comparing him to other 1b's in 2002 and 2003. Much closer to mediocre than best of the best.

[BigbadB]

Do you consider a player with an OPS over 860 a bad player.

 

Nope. I didn't say a guy with an .860 OPS was a bad player. But, an .860 OPS from 1b is not top of the line production. It's closer to average production.

[jmajew]

Do you consider a player with an OPS over 860 a bad player.

 

Nope. I didn't say a guy with an .860 OPS was a bad player. But, an .860 OPS from 1b is not top of the line production. It's closer to average production.

 

In 2003 Lee's OPS was 979 away and 790 at home. The werid thing is that in 2002 it was the exact opposite he was 916 at home and 831 away. Just thought that was kind of interesting adn i'd through that out there.

 

When you include how good lee's defense and baserunning were with his 860 OPS the Cubs were still getting a very good player who was just entering his prime. I believe the prime years for athletes is 28-32. As I had stated before I'd always be willing to trade a proven player for prospects.

 

Yes it was a salary dump, I completely understand that.

[Backtobanks]

Who knew DLee was a possibility back in the 03-04 off season?

 

Derrek Lee was a possibility back in the 03-04 offseason. Florida was trying to move him for pennies on the dollar. A few teams showed some interest, but not enough to take on his entire contract.

 

Derrek Lee was an average offensive 1b prior to his 2005 season with the Cubs.

 

When the Cubs traded Choi and Nannini for Lee prior to the '04 season, I don't think anyone here could visualize Lee putting up the '05 season that he did. It was a total salary dump from the Marlins side of this deal. Hendry got a steal of a deal, as Lee not only made it a totally lopsided trade, but he went from an overpaid, mediocre 1b to an underpaid all star 1b in 2005.

 

Do you consider a player with an OPS over 860 a bad player. Because in only one year since 2000 has Lee been below that and that was 2001. He always had a high OBP, always had atleast decnet power (since 2000 only one year below 28 homers), and you have to add in the facts he is great defensively and he is a great baserunner.

 

DLee was always a very good player. He was just always under appreciated.

 

Your example of the DLee trade is the perfect reason not to trade Aram for a prospect. You never trade a proven potential all star commodity for prospects, unless it is a complete salary dump. You could end up getting the shaft. Especially when the proven commodity is just turning 28. Yes, Aramis has his flaws but so does every player. That is what makes building a team so difficult. You need to find players who help to minimize their teamates flaws.

 

You know Aramis has minimal range at third so you get a shortstop that has a lot. You don't put three sub standard defensive outfielders all in the same outfield. It can only lead to problems. You can live with one bad defensive corner outfielder if you have a great centerfielder.

 

I know this gets annoying but i'm going to show you my perfect team for next year...that is reasonably possible for the Cubs to achieve. This is just to show how you need to build a team of players that compliment one another.

 

2b Walker

C Barrett

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

CF Hunter

LF Jones/Murton

SS Cedeno

RF Pie

 

You can count on Walker and Barrett both to have OBP around 350 or better. Then you can expect DLees to be around 400 and Arams aroudn 350 and then Hunter aroudn 330. Jones/Murton will be about 360 when they are platooned. This Cubs team really doesn't need a lot of work on the offensive end. They just need to sign the right player. By the way Barrett is the perfect 2 hitter. HE doesn't strike out much and he has a high OBP so he knows how to take pitches.

 

Pitching it woudl be great to sign Zito and then go with Zambrano, Prior, Zito, Marshall, Maddux.

 

The outfield will be much better defensively with Hunter and Pie that it shoudl help the pitching staff quite a bit. We may not have the speed that Pierre brings this year but Pie, Hunter, Lee, Cedeno, and Jones all have decent speed.

 

I agree that the lineup you mentioned is very attainable for the Cubs, but I think Hendry will have to make a bigger splash in the lineup than adding Hunter and Pie to satisfy the fans. Secondly, he had better hire a manager who might arrange the batting order as you suggested since Dusty has had Walker and Barrett all season and hasn't tried them at the top of the lineup. I'm not a big fan of Zito (especially for the cost), but I guess it would solidify the rotation.

[sethuel1]

 

 

Also, could he just want out of Chicago? It's a depressing situation. If he doesn't see things getting better, he might want out.

 

I want out but they keep pulling me back in.

 

Just when I thought I was out...