Pujols Implicated in the Grimsley deal

[jaydee]

I have found it funny that no one thinks Pujols is cheating. This year he was on pace to hit what 70+ HRs? He has gained considerable size since he entered the league. Sosa/Big Mac/Bonds are all assumed guilty though the evidence isn't that concrete (except in Bonds' case) basically b/c they put up unrealistic numbers. But for some reason if Pujols had not been injured and had put up unreal numbers this year, the guy would of been assumed innocent. It just doesn't make sense.

 

People assume Pujols is innocent because most people don't know anything about him. It took a while for people to find stuff about Sammy, I'm guessing it will be the same with Pujols.

[CubRock2]

Agreed, guilt by association doesn't work.

 

I don't like this climate..., I don't like it at all.

 

Well said, Gus.

 

People have rights, and I don't think we should be assuming people are guilty without much evidence. Sadly, baseball players haven't been honest in the past, which shows a pattern of rumor, then denial, then spin, then actual evidence, and finally a "conviction" in the court of public opinion. As much as I want to abide by that pattern, as logic suggests what will happen next, I can't jump to conclusions here, as lots of people (including myself) due when it comes to steriods.

 

I may have blinders on. I was hoping Lee-Pujols was going to become the "Sandberg-Smith" of the 2000's. Our rivalry seems so much better with big name players. :cry:

[ManCrushOnNomar]

Mihlfeld was the Royals strength and conditioning coach in 2003 and 2004. He was a minor league strength and conditioning coach for five years. And he's also Mike Sweeney's trainer. That means he's associated with a lot of major league players. It's simply absurd to think that he referred all of these players to a supplier of performance enhancing substances.

 

Pujols shouldn't be implicated any more than anyone else who's trained with Mihlfeld.

 

Agreed, guilt by association doesn't work. If my co-worker is a druggie, but nobody found out until after he left, does that mean I am too? I mean, I worked with him on many projects, sometimes quite a bit of overtime.....

 

You see, sometimes, a working relationship never goes deeper than professionals working together.

 

Burn him..., burn the witch!!!

 

 

I don't like this climate..., I don't like it at all.

That's a little different. Working with someone and having someone as your personal trainer/Stregnth and conditioning coach are two totally different things.

[jaydee]

Mihlfeld was the Royals strength and conditioning coach in 2003 and 2004. He was a minor league strength and conditioning coach for five years. And he's also Mike Sweeney's trainer. That means he's associated with a lot of major league players. It's simply absurd to think that he referred all of these players to a supplier of performance enhancing substances.

 

Pujols shouldn't be implicated any more than anyone else who's trained with Mihlfeld.

 

 

Here is a nice quote from an article about Albert and Mihlfeld

 

"Consequently, a frustrated Albert Pujols -- after spending a year at Kansas City's Maple Woods Community College, where he met strength and conditioning guru Chris Mihlfeld and started the process of building an Adonis-like upper body-- waited 13 rounds before getting the call from the Cardinals."

 

http://www.810whb.com/scripts/archives/getstory.asp?article=12344&string=noSearch

 

I think its just naive that we all trash the last decades premier power hitteres and their records, but then hail the new guys who could break those records too.

[CubRock2]

People assume Pujols is innocent because most people don't know anything about him. It took a while for people to find stuff about Sammy, I'm guessing it will be the same with Pujols.

 

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. Conversely, I think the more information we have about somebody, the more easliy information can be manipulated to support any story. Dig enough, and a little fragment story can be an overblown "ah-ha." I think we did that with Sammy. Then his bat blew up. :oops:

 

Pujols was on a Bonds-HR pace for the first 7 weeks of the season. He's cooled off since then, and has obviously been injured. I'd be shocked if he hit 70+ if healthy. However, his HR totals have been steadily climbing, and he's entering his prime now. It doesn't seem far fetched that he could be a truly great hitter and actually be doing it cleanly.

[windows]

Mihlfeld was the Royals strength and conditioning coach in 2003 and 2004. He was a minor league strength and conditioning coach for five years. And he's also Mike Sweeney's trainer. That means he's associated with a lot of major league players. It's simply absurd to think that he referred all of these players to a supplier of performance enhancing substances.

 

Pujols shouldn't be implicated any more than anyone else who's trained with Mihlfeld.

 

 

Here is a nice quote from an article about Albert and Mihlfeld

 

"Consequently, a frustrated Albert Pujols -- after spending a year at Kansas City's Maple Woods Community College, where he met strength and conditioning guru Chris Mihlfeld and started the process of building an Adonis-like upper body-- waited 13 rounds before getting the call from the Cardinals."

 

http://www.810whb.com/scripts/archives/getstory.asp?article=12344&string=noSearch

 

I think its just naive that we all trash the last decades premier power hitteres and their records, but then hail the new guys who could break those records too.

 

If Mihlfeld's name is really on that affidavit, then I'll pay a little more attention to this. Eventually the names on the affidavit will be leaked to the press, no doubt, and we'll have a much better idea if Mihlfeld has a role in this.

 

If it is indeed Mihlfeld's name, I'll be suspicious of Mike Sweeney as well as Pujols. And I really hate to say that because I'm a Royals fan and Sweeney is one of my favorite players.

 

I just think right now there's too many things uncertain to make any conclusion from this.

 

Don't think I'm saying Pujols and Sweeney are innocent. I'm not. I'm just not convinced there's a fire to go along with all the smoke yet.

[gus_dog]

I'm not sayin' that Pujols is innocent, but I am not ready to bust out the torches like they did for Frankenstein's monster based on the thin evidence (if you want to call it that) being made available.

 

And yes, the trainer is a co-worker that you work closely with. The analogy is valid. Just because the trainer might use 'roids, or even suggest that you use them, does not automatically translate into you using them. He may or may not have ever suggest them to pujols, and if he did, Pujols may have told him to bugger off. We don't have enough information to convict Pujols.

 

I hate the Cardinals as much as anyone, maybe more than anyone else, but I will not readily bash this guy until some evidence more substantive than this is made available.

 

This is just me, but that's how I feel.

[SoonerCubFan]

I got to tell you, all of this on top of the frustrations of being a lifelong Cub fan seeing the promise of the early 2000s continue to get more distant with each ever-more-lame season has me about 1 millimeter from abandoning baseball altogether. And looking around at all of MLB, there can't be more than a couple of teams whose fans could be enjoying the 2006 season much at all.

 

The only way I salvage my interest this year in any way is if Hendry gets off his dead rear and gets Miguel Cabrera (my vote for the game's best pure hitter) for something to watch for the next decade. Of course, since the Cubs aren't "in contention" he won't even lift a finger in that direction.

[CubsBullsBears]

Unlike Bonds, he is not a prick. Even though he is a Cardinal, I will believe him until a test proves otherswise.

[woodchip2153]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

[Drew Doughty]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

because the level of competition in football has not been severed by a few people through brute strength yet.

 

they might be, and probably are, just as prevalent in other sports, but the playing-field was leveled by McGwire and Sosa and Bonds and even now, Pujols.

[scs_paradise]

Unlike Bonds, he is not a prick. Even though he is a Cardinal, I will believe him until a test proves otherswise.

 

there are other things that can prove someone's guilt besides a test. Especially since the faithful of whatever player tests positive will just claim the test was wrong/tampered/inaccurate/poorly handled. This era where people outside the legal world need to actually SEE the wrong doing is getting old. Unless I'm on a jury I live by the saying "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck"

 

And to the person who said "people have rights" BS they have no rights that prevent me from thinking they are a cheat, the only right they have is that I have to prove they are a cheat before I send them to jail. In the mean time I don't have to 'wait' for all the evidence to come out, I'm free to change my mind as more evidence comes forward, I'm not a legal body. (much to most people's delight!)

[windows]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

Unlike MLB, the NFL has actually done a very good job of policing themselves and taking a strong stand against performance enhancing substances. They have tough penalties and have done random testing for a long time. Additionally, they not only test for the drugs but for masking agents as well. The union and the owners both agree that performance enhancing substances have no place in the NFL and have worked together to try to keep them out of the league.

 

This is totally different from MLB where the owners were more than willing to sweep this under the rug (until Congress got involved) and the union opposed drug testing.

 

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

[Drew Doughty]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

Unlike MLB, the NFL has actually done a very good job of policing themselves and taking a strong stand against performance enhancing substances. They have tough penalties and have done random testing for a long time. Additionally, they not only test for the drugs but for masking agents as well. The union and the owners both agree that performance enhancing substances have no place in the NFL and have worked together to try to keep them out of the league.

 

This is totally different from MLB where the owners were more than willing to sweep this under the rug (until Congress got involved) and the union opposed drug testing.

 

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

 

huh. never knew that. ignore whatever I said.

[Sammy Sofa]

I got to tell you, all of this on top of the frustrations of being a lifelong Cub fan seeing the promise of the early 2000s continue to get more distant with each ever-more-lame season has me about 1 millimeter from abandoning baseball altogether. And looking around at all of MLB, there can't be more than a couple of teams whose fans could be enjoying the 2006 season much at all.

 

The only way I salvage my interest this year in any way is if Hendry gets off his dead rear and gets Miguel Cabrera (my vote for the game's best pure hitter) for something to watch for the next decade. Of course, since the Cubs aren't "in contention" he won't even lift a finger in that direction.

 

Cabrera's significantly bigger this year, too. Hmmmmmmmmm...

[1908]

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

The average size of lineman has jumped significantly over the past 20 years. The fridge was huge in 1985 at 305 lbs. How many NFL players tip the scales at over 300 lbs these days? Heck, how many college kids do? Players don't get that much bigger that quickly without some help. It's the white elephant in the room for the NFL, and nobody cares because few lineman are in the spotlight.

[windows]

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

The average size of lineman has jumped significantly over the past 20 years. The fridge was huge in 1985 at 305 lbs. How many NFL players tip the scales at over 300 lbs these days? Heck, how many college kids do? Players don't get that much bigger that quickly without some help. It's the white elephant in the room for the NFL, and nobody cares because few lineman are in the spotlight.

 

Just a thought but there isn't a test for HGH. Even the IOC which is typically very strict about banning substances doesn't test for HGH. We're kidding ourselves if we don't think HGH is a big problem. I have nothing to back this up, but it wouldn't surprise me if HGH is rampant in the NFL.

 

I do think the NFL drug testing could be a lot tougher. But relative to other leagues, the NFL testing has been very good.

[1908]

Just a thought but there isn't a test for HGH. Even the IOC which is typically very strict about banning substances doesn't test for HGH. We're kidding ourselves if we don't think HGH is a big problem. I have nothing to back this up, but it wouldn't surprise me if HGH is rampant in the NFL.

 

I do think the NFL drug testing could be a lot tougher. But relative to other leagues, the NFL testing has been very good.

I thought there was a blood test for HGH now. Anyway, I agree that HGH is likely at the root of the size increase in NFL players. I'd be surprised if steroids still weren't widely used as well.

[CubfaninCA]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

tagliabue >>>>> selig???

[windows]

Just a thought but there isn't a test for HGH. Even the IOC which is typically very strict about banning substances doesn't test for HGH. We're kidding ourselves if we don't think HGH is a big problem. I have nothing to back this up, but it wouldn't surprise me if HGH is rampant in the NFL.

 

I do think the NFL drug testing could be a lot tougher. But relative to other leagues, the NFL testing has been very good.

I thought there was a blood test for HGH now. Anyway, I agree that HGH is likely at the root of the size increase in NFL players. I'd be surprised if steroids still weren't widely used as well.

 

There seems to be some conflicting reports on this. I've found one link -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5538709/ -- which claims that there's effective tests for HGH. On the other hand, if you believe Jayson Stark -- http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2474247 -- there is no effective test for HGH right now. Rob Manfred of MLB -- http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/07/sports/baseball/07cnd-drug.html?hp&ex=1149739200&en=3b93c1643fd82d05&ei=5094&partner=homepage -- also denies that there's a reliable test for HGH. So take that for what it's worth.

 

HGH can be administered in a number ways. One of these ways is by extracting HGH from cadavers, as disgusting as that is. However, there are also many synthetic HGH products available now including Humatrope and Nutropin. Another method of increasing HGH production is by ingesting precursors of HGH.

 

As for steroids, there are ways to get around the testing for testosterone. I don't remember exactly what the test is, but it's done by comparing the ratio of testosterone to another substance. If the amount of testosterone is too high compared to the other substance, the it's considered a positive test. As long as you don't exceed that amount, though, you can take testosterone and not fail drug tests.

[srbin84]

These days, anytime a really big guy is hitting a lot of homers, I take it with a grain of salt until he takes a blood test for HGH (which will never be a part of baseball IMO). I think we should all admire and praise Soriano for his home run total this year, as he certainly doesn't have the look of a body builder.

 

 

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/267a2026-a50c-45c2-aa1b-14183e4df1e3.jpg

[SouthSideRyan]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

Because Paul Tagliabue is smarter than Bud Selig. Steroids are a far bigger problem in football than they are in baseball.

[CubbieRich]

Mighty Poolie--There seems to be some question about your physical development. Even though the Cardinals newspaper has put it's head in the sand and won't even mention your name this morning. Please put an end to this madness. Take the WADA-approved HGH test(and to Cards apologists-there is a reliable HGH test) in Downers Grove. It's a little pricey but not to worry-I will pay for it. Not surprised third-rate St. Louis lackey Bernie M. of the PD hasn't offered the same.

 

Poolie--You have time on your hands now because of your injury. By the way, how'd did Larussa know you'd be out for a month without an MRI test to actually see what was wrong with you? That Tony is a special guy when it comes to things legal and medical. I know you won't make yourself available to the media during these trying times. Someone, not from St. Louis, may ask a question you won't like.

 

So Poolie, come take the test. Don't hide behind your religion, your kids, your wife, your manager or anyone else. Be the Mighty Poolie and be a man. Imagine what a thrill it will be for Cards fans to have you come out of the clinic and then point to the sky-because you're clean. I'll even buy you a beer at Uncle Bub's Bar-B-Q when you're done.

 

Let me know when you think that will happen.

[woodchip2153]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

Unlike MLB, the NFL has actually done a very good job of policing themselves and taking a strong stand against performance enhancing substances. They have tough penalties and have done random testing for a long time. Additionally, they not only test for the drugs but for masking agents as well. The union and the owners both agree that performance enhancing substances have no place in the NFL and have worked together to try to keep them out of the league.

 

This is totally different from MLB where the owners were more than willing to sweep this under the rug (until Congress got involved) and the union opposed drug testing.

 

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

 

Didn't several members of the Carolina Panthers admit to using steroids a couple of years ago? I think Todd Sauerbrun (sp?) was one of them, and if a punter is juicing, who isn't?

 

I could be making this up, but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing something like this a couple of years ago.

 

It just makes no sense to me why football gets a free pass, while it's a witch hunt in baseball.

[JDE]

Mighty Poolie--There seems to be some question about your physical development. Even though the Cardinals newspaper has put it's head in the sand and won't even mention your name this morning. Please put an end to this madness. Take the WADA-approved HGH test(and to Cards apologists-there is a reliable HGH test) in Downers Grove. It's a little pricey but not to worry-I will pay for it. Not surprised third-rate St. Louis lackey Bernie M. of the PD hasn't offered the same.

 

Poolie--You have time on your hands now because of your injury. By the way, how'd did Larussa know you'd be out for a month without an MRI test to actually see what was wrong with you? That Tony is a special guy when it comes to things legal and medical. I know you won't make yourself available to the media during these trying times. Someone, not from St. Louis, may ask a question you won't like.

 

So Poolie, come take the test. Don't hide behind your religion, your kids, your wife, your manager or anyone else. Be the Mighty Poolie and be a man. Imagine what a thrill it will be for Cards fans to have you come out of the clinic and then point to the sky-because you're clean. I'll even buy you a beer at Uncle Bub's Bar-B-Q when you're done.

 

Let me know when you think that will happen.

 

If he were a Cub, would you feel the same?