Jim: Please ignore Mike Kiley

[Derwood]

Why stop at Carlos Lee? Let's get all the Lees!

 

Cliff Lee

Travis Lee

Derrek Lee

Carlos Lee.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Why stop at Carlos Lee? Let's get all the Lees!

 

Cliff Lee

Travis Lee

Derrek Lee

Carlos Lee.

 

[really bad joke] How about Ugg? [/really bad joke]

[daske17]

Why stop at Carlos Lee? Let's get all the Lees!

 

Cliff Lee

Travis Lee

Derrek Lee

Carlos Lee.

 

[really bad joke] How about Ugg? [/really bad joke]

 

I think most certain-lee. Oh, I need to lie down.

[Yestheydo]

Totally agree - we should bring in a legitimate power source to play LF, and platoon Murton/Jones. That platoon would actually provide pretty nice production from RF, and it would give Murton time to develop as a hitter at a cheap salary.

 

As far as LF, obviously Carlos Lee is a free agent and would be a big pick-up. I also believe that Geoff Jenkins is a free agent after the season, and I don't see the Brewers re-signing both. For a guy who seems like he's been around forever, Jenkins is only 31 and his offensive production has been very comparable to Carlos Lee's.

 

I'd prefer Jenkins over Lee -- his day splits are really good -- but he's signed through 07 with an option for 08.

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Hendry likes his current outfield just fine; they just haven't "got going yet".

[CubfaninCA]

trade pierre & hill for craig wilson & put jones in cf. the cubs gain 300 points in ops right there.

 

i hate giving up murton, who's an ideal 2 hitter. i don't think taking walks is real important, but you can't be dead last either. i'd much rather give up cedeno, but i have a feeling they want thim to lead off. he's a perfect baker leadoff man. no patience, but fast.

[BigbadB]

Milwaukee has been negotiating an extension with Carlos. Seems they want him back and he isn't opposed to coming back. If that deal gets done, that's one less FA outfielder on the market this coming offseason.

 

I'm really not all that excited about the prospects of Carlos Lee. Miguel Cabrera? You bet. I'd be on the phone asking what they want for him.

 

Pie, Hill, Guzman, Marshall, Gallagher, Moore, Murton, Cedeno, Patterson, etc... Whatever they want, they can have. Miguel is one of those players you can trade the farm for. Assuming you can sign him beyond his free agent years.

 

Miguel is a year and a half younger than Murton.

 

I would agree with Vance that moving Jones to CF makes his production adequate. I've also said all along that Jones isn't going anywhere. That would be admitting that they made a mistake in signing him, and I don't see this management team doing that.

 

But, I also don't expect them to attempt to go after Cabrera. That it would make sense to go after Cabrera doesn't seem to register with this management team. Hendry will play hardball with the Marlins for Cabrera, without any realization that you can't play hardball with a team that doesn't have to trade Cabrera to anyone.

[FergieJ31]

Totally agree - we should bring in a legitimate power source to play LF, and platoon Murton/Jones. That platoon would actually provide pretty nice production from RF, and it would give Murton time to develop as a hitter at a cheap salary.

 

As far as LF, obviously Carlos Lee is a free agent and would be a big pick-up. I also believe that Geoff Jenkins is a free agent after the season, and I don't see the Brewers re-signing both. For a guy who seems like he's been around forever, Jenkins is only 31 and his offensive production has been very comparable to Carlos Lee's.

 

I'd prefer Jenkins over Lee -- his day splits are really good -- but he's signed through 07 with an option for 08.

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Hendry likes his current outfield just fine; they just haven't "got going yet".

 

I really believe you're right. Hendry et al are in denial.

 

Bruce Miles wrote that this is an organization that values the wrong stats, which is an apt observation. I'd take it one step further: this is an organization that values scouting reports much more than stats, and Moneyball showed how fallable scouts can be.

[BigbadB]

i don't think taking walks is real important

 

You're partially right. Walks aren't important if your whole baseball team hits .330+ AVG.

[FergieJ31]

Milwaukee has been negotiating an extension with Carlos. Seems they want him back and he isn't opposed to coming back. If that deal gets done, that's one less FA outfielder on the market this coming offseason.

 

I'm really not all that excited about the prospects of Carlos Lee. Miguel Cabrera? You bet. I'd be on the phone asking what they want for him.

 

Pie, Hill, Guzman, Marshall, Gallagher, Moore, Murton, Cedeno, Patterson, etc... Whatever they want, they can have. Miguel is one of those players you can trade the farm for. Assuming you can sign him beyond his free agent years.

 

Miguel is a year and a half younger than Murton.

 

I would agree with Vance that moving Jones to CF makes his production adequate. I've also said all along that Jones isn't going anywhere. That would be admitting that they made a mistake in signing him, and I don't see this management team doing that.

 

But, I also don't expect them to attempt to go after Cabrera. That it would make sense to go after Cabrera doesn't seem to register with this management team. Hendry will play hardball with the Marlins for Cabrera, without any realization that you can't play hardball with a team that doesn't have to trade Cabrera to anyone.

 

Totally agree - this is the point I was trying to make previously re dealing for Miggy.

 

Assuming the Marlins do shop him, they will string teams along until the deadline for maximum value, hoping some team bids TOP prospects + ML-proven talent. If Hendry doesn't throw Z into the aforementioned mix of Gallagher, Pie, Gooz + Murt (and he'd be run out of town on a rail if he did offer Z), Beinfest will say "thanks Jim we'll get back to you".

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Assuming the Marlins do shop him, they will string teams along until the deadline for maximum value, hoping some team bids TOP prospects + ML-proven talent. If Hendry doesn't throw Z into the aforementioned mix of Gallagher, Pie, Gooz + Murt (and he'd be run out of town on a rail if he did offer Z), Beinfest will say "thanks Jim we'll get back to you".

 

Florida will not want to take any big salaries back, and that's exactly what Zambrano will be sooner rather than later. The right package will make 99% of all players available in a hurry, there's no reason for Jim to sit back and wait for the Marlins to shop him. His pricetag goes up with the number of serious players. Be proactive and give Larry a deal that he can't refuse.

[FergieJ31]

Be proactive and give Larry a deal that he can't refuse.

 

Hendry = Ned Beatty, Beinfest = Mountain Man. That sort of scenario would get a deal done before the end of July. I agree that Miggy is one player you trade the farm for, and it behooves the Cubs to be proactive, but the Marlins are not in any hurry.

[TXCubsFan]

My feeling in writing the story I did was that the Cubs need an Adam Dunn-type player (even though they can't get the real thing). You're stuck with Jones. Pie will play center. You need some power from left. Nobody likes Murton more than I do, but I don't know if it's going to happen for him here the way we'd like it to happen. As I wrote (and I haven't seen Kiley's story), he'd pan out for somebody else, given the Cubs' luck.

 

Bruce,

 

Why don't the Cubs consider a Murton / Jones platoon in LF in 2007? The splits indicate that Murton looks like a stud against LHP, and Jones is a stud against RHP.

 

Cost can't be an issue, given Murton is earning minimum. If Murton does get it together against RHP in 2007, then Hendry would have some attractive trade bait in either Jones or Murton.

[Backtobanks]

Am I missing something? Why does everyone insist that the Cubs are stuck with Jones for 3 years? Does he have a no-trade contract? I've read this at least 3 dozen times and I've reponded many times. Trading Jones should not be a problem with 2 years and $10 million owed on his contract, especially if the Cubs eat $1 -2 million per year. I can't believe that teams wouldn't be interested in Jones for 2 years @ say $7 million. Of course, that's assuming the Cubs want to trade him. Moving him to CF and ditching Pierre or getting a big bat and having a platoon of Murton/Jones are looking like possibilities.

 

You keep saying that, and you keep ignoring the replies.

 

Jim Hendry wanted Jones. He's exactly the type of player Hendry looks for. Hendry is signed through 2008.

The Cubs are stuck with Jones.

If they were smart enough to clean house, then a new GM might be able to come in and move him. But that's not likely, so the slim chance of dealing Jones is practically zero.

 

People say the Cubs are stuck with Jones because people realize how the Cubs work.

 

I still don't agree. I think Hendry looked at the hole in RF, looked at what other teams were asking in trade, and looked at the free agent market and decided that Jones was the best fit. I'm sure if he offered Pie, Zambrano, Prior, etc. during the off season he could have had a better RF, but the cost was too much.

[goonys evil twin]

Am I missing something? Why does everyone insist that the Cubs are stuck with Jones for 3 years? Does he have a no-trade contract? I've read this at least 3 dozen times and I've reponded many times. Trading Jones should not be a problem with 2 years and $10 million owed on his contract, especially if the Cubs eat $1 -2 million per year. I can't believe that teams wouldn't be interested in Jones for 2 years @ say $7 million. Of course, that's assuming the Cubs want to trade him. Moving him to CF and ditching Pierre or getting a big bat and having a platoon of Murton/Jones are looking like possibilities.

 

You keep saying that, and you keep ignoring the replies.

 

Jim Hendry wanted Jones. He's exactly the type of player Hendry looks for. Hendry is signed through 2008.

The Cubs are stuck with Jones.

If they were smart enough to clean house, then a new GM might be able to come in and move him. But that's not likely, so the slim chance of dealing Jones is practically zero.

 

People say the Cubs are stuck with Jones because people realize how the Cubs work.

 

I still don't agree. I think Hendry looked at the hole in RF, looked at what other teams were asking in trade, and looked at the free agent market and decided that Jones was the best fit. I'm sure if he offered Pie, Zambrano, Prior, etc. during the off season he could have had a better RF, but the cost was too much.

 

There isn't a single sign out there that points to Jim Hendry not completely liking what Jones offers. It's exactly the type of player Hendry has coveted since he's been here. I predicted Jones, or a player like Jones, would be in the Cubs OF years ago. Hendry is very happy with Jones, and the Cubs are stuck with them both unless they clean house from the top.

[BigbadB]

My feeling in writing the story I did was that the Cubs need an Adam Dunn-type player (even though they can't get the real thing). You're stuck with Jones. Pie will play center. You need some power from left. Nobody likes Murton more than I do, but I don't know if it's going to happen for him here the way we'd like it to happen. As I wrote (and I haven't seen Kiley's story), he'd pan out for somebody else, given the Cubs' luck.

 

Bruce,

 

Why don't the Cubs consider a Murton / Jones platoon in LF in 2007? The splits indicate that Murton looks like a stud against LHP, and Jones is a stud against RHP.

 

Cost can't be an issue, given Murton is earning minimum. If Murton does get it together against RHP in 2007, then Hendry would have some attractive trade bait in either Jones or Murton.

 

I would imagine the thought process is one that would include Murton in a deal to improve the LF position, like Dunn or Cabrera. If the Cubs could get one of those guys without moving Murton, more power to the Cubs. But, if I'm trading a stud outfielder, I'd probably want Murton as part of the deal.

[BigbadB]

I still don't agree. I think Hendry looked at the hole in RF, looked at what other teams were asking in trade, and looked at the free agent market and decided that Jones was the best fit. I'm sure if he offered Pie, Zambrano, Prior, etc. during the off season he could have had a better RF, but the cost was too much.

 

1. He can catch the ball.

2. He's fast

3. He's toolsy

4. He hits left handed for power, something the team has a shortage of.

5. They gave him a 3 year deal

6. He's aggressive

7. He can handle grueling day games in the heat of Summer

8. He can play CF if needed

9. His 6m contract is not viewed as a liability by the guys who signed him

10. If they were to consider trading him, they don't have anyone in the minor leagues to take his place.

 

I've only got 10 reasons. But, that's probably enough. You can disagree if you want. But, you can no longer ask for reasons he won't be traded. :D

[CubfaninCA]

so now hendry "covets" jones-type players. :shock:

 

perhaps a slim free agency market forced his hand?

 

jones has proven so far to be a better option than sanders, encanarcion & burnitz.

 

hendry messed up by not signing jermaine dye a few years ago. btw, who had dye pegged as a good pickup besides the alleged dummy, kenny williams??

[CubfaninCA]

watch hendry trade murton for soriano.

 

i'm going into hiding if that happens. :D

[minnesotacubsfan]

so now hendry "covets" jones-type players. :shock:

 

perhaps a slim free agency market forced his hand?

 

 

 

3 year deal

 

how did a slim free agency market force his hand for 3 years?

[Derwood]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

[Soul]

so now hendry "covets" jones-type players. :shock:

 

perhaps a slim free agency market forced his hand?

 

 

 

3 year deal

 

how did a slim free agency market force his hand for 3 years?

 

Because there wasn't much else to choose from at the time, and Jones' agent knew that. 3 years, Mr. Hendry, or suffer with whatever slop you have in the minors @ RF.

 

Not that I'm excusing Hendry. Especially when it comes to RF. He knew when he took the job that Sosa wasn't long for this league. Yet he did nothing. He's done nothing but stop-gap crap in RF since Sosa left. Players have been available for teams who possess enough desire to win to go out and get 'em. But not Hendry, not the Cubs. Now we're in a bottomless hole. And there's no way out.

[CubfaninCA]

so now hendry "covets" jones-type players. :shock:

 

perhaps a slim free agency market forced his hand?

 

 

 

3 year deal

 

how did a slim free agency market force his hand for 3 years?

 

so you wanted encanarcion for 2? burnitz for 1? 50 yr. old reggie sanders for 2? (iirc sander was for 2. maybe not tho...)

[CubfaninCA]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

[abuck1220]

watch hendry trade murton for soriano.

 

i'm going into hiding if that happens. :D

 

you know, if soriano was under contract for a couple more years, i probably wouldn't care if they did that.

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.