Jacque Jones: Can We Trade him for Corey Patterson?

[srbin84]

My first reaction was that this is something that happened would happen on the South side, not Wrigley. No excuses can be made for this person's actions.

 

That being said, Jones' baserunning deserves to be booed. That is it. Not a ball thrown at them, not being verbally abused, booed. Unfortunately, the fan in this case is taking away from the attention that should be directed at Jones' poor baserunning. However, because some idiot threw a ball at him, we are spending more time talking about the fan and the incident then what we should be talking about...baseball on the field.

 

I am not making excuses for Jones, but how does this reflect on the fans of the Cubs. Are people going to want to come and play for a team whose fans throw things at them when they do poorly?

 

Good points. I take pride in knowing Cubs fans are generally civilized people whereas Sox fans obviously have a faction of human scum. I guess we are closer to them than I thought.

[hrowengartner]

Did any one see this quote from Baker about jones base running last night

"He keeps trying to score on balls that aren't scorable," Baker said. "He's trying -- really over-trying, if there is such a thing. It's the second or third time. He's a good baserunner. He's just trying to do everything, everybody's trying to do everything."

[soapy]

Did any one see this quote from Baker about jones base running last night

"He keeps trying to score on balls that aren't scorable," Baker said. "He's trying -- really over-trying, if there is such a thing. It's the second or third time. He's a good baserunner. He's just trying to do everything, everybody's trying to do everything."

 

Poor Jones. He's just trying too hard. What a gamer.

[DesMoinesCub]

Maybe poor players won't want to play?

 

Maybe good players won't want to come and struggle and put up with all of the crap Jones has gone through.

 

Gooney- I agree that it is unfortunate that no attention is being directed at Jones' baserunning. But more attention would be directed had this person not thrown a ball at him.

 

I just think the more of this that happens, the more Cubs fans are going to be turned into Piston fans, or Sox fans. Both of who took a big hit after the umpire/coach attack, and the Pacers brawl.

[LuvChicagoSports]

OK.......The baserunning has clearly been awful, but since his 0-13 start at the beginning of the season Jones is .301/.333/.538. He clearly has not been AWFUL if you take that out. I seem to also remember D Lee getting doubled up twice on fly balls in a relatively short period of time. Alou was a much, much worse baserunner than Jones, and his defense wasn't even remotley close to as good as Jones. That being said, there is no excuse for the basesunning mental mistakes. The problem with the whole thing is that it's not like he has been alone in the mess. It has been a recurring theme under this coaching staff and I think that is where the significance lies. Fundamental baseball is simply something that Dusty Baker refuses to keep players accountable to. Jones is the player who made the mistake, so he is at fault, but the coaching staff allowing these things to repeatedly happen without any consequence is disheartening to watch as a loyal fan.

 

The fans need to take it easy on Jones. The boo-birds at Wrigley this season have been flat embarassing. Some friends of mine were at the game on Saturday when Dempster blew the save and were appalled that he was getting booed. One of the happens to be a White Sox fan and just couldn't comprehend. The quote from Todd Walker earlier in this thread wasn't just about the fans booing Jones tonight. He said prior to that that plays where the guys hit the ball hard and get out are setting the boo birds off. He is right that the fans (the one's booing constantly) need to learn more about the game. It is getting out of hand. I know we as a collective whole want so badly to win, but I for one don't want to be anything like the Philly fans and we are much closer to being like them than the fans of any other city.

[goonys evil twin]

Some friends of mine were at the game on Saturday when Dempster blew the save and were appalled that he was getting booed. One of the happens to be a White Sox fan and just couldn't comprehend.

 

Couldn't comprehend? Is he a moron? They were in a stretch of historically bad play and a tremendous losing streak. The one time they had a chance to win and they lost. They couldn't understand why fans would boo after a closer blows a save when the team is in a middle of a terrible losing streak.

 

 

It's fine to get in an uproar over a fan who throws a ball at a player.

 

But are we really going down the path when we're criticizing fans for booing a terrible team in the middle of a horrible losing streak? I've been to games in many stadiums, and each and every time home teams booed their own players in one way shape or form. And none of those times were the home time in a middle of a swoon like the Cubs were when Dempster blew that save.

[DesMoinesCub]

Fans are going to boo. That happens everywhere. I just don't want Cub fans to be lumped with the "terrible" fans in all the other sports.

 

Booing Dempster is kind of a tough call. Here is a guy that runs a string of consecutive saves together, so it was bound to happen sooner or later. The problem was it happened in the middle of a losing streak. Had he blown a save during a winning streak, would the same thing happen? I hope not, but am not sure about it. Since the playoffs, many Cub fans have booed a lot more then I can remember. Do they have a reason, absolutely. Has it gotten a little out of hand...maybe.

[LuvChicagoSports]

Some friends of mine were at the game on Saturday when Dempster blew the save and were appalled that he was getting booed. One of the happens to be a White Sox fan and just couldn't comprehend.

 

Couldn't comprehend? Is he a moron? They were in a stretch of historically bad play and a tremendous losing streak. The one time they had a chance to win and they lost. They couldn't understand why fans would boo after a closer blows a save when the team is in a middle of a terrible losing streak.

 

 

It's fine to get in an uproar over a fan who throws a ball at a player.

 

But are we really going down the path when we're criticizing fans for booing a terrible team in the middle of a horrible losing streak? I've been to games in many stadiums, and each and every time home teams booed their own players in one way shape or form. And none of those times were the home time in a middle of a swoon like the Cubs were when Dempster blew that save.

 

Look Dempster had set the Cubs record for the most consecutive saves. The guy isn't perfect nobody is. Sure we are and were in a bad stretch, but it's not like Dempster has ever done anything to show that he doesn't care about winning. He works his a** off and was clearly distraught at the outcome of the game. I would have even been ok with a little booing, but for the fans to incessantly boo him just doesn't make sense, even given the current state of the team.

[LuvChicagoSports]

Fans are going to boo. That happens everywhere. I just don't want Cub fans to be lumped with the "terrible" fans in all the other sports.

 

Booing Dempster is kind of a tough call. Here is a guy that runs a string of consecutive saves together, so it was bound to happen sooner or later. The problem was it happened in the middle of a losing streak. Had he blown a save during a winning streak, would the same thing happen? I hope not, but am not sure about it. Since the playoffs, many Cub fans have booed a lot more then I can remember. Do they have a reason, absolutely. Has it gotten a little out of hand...maybe.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Many of us have taken notice that since 2003 the fans have become almost abusive to players in our own park. I would never say fans don't have the right to boo and that they shouldn't boo, but I think certain things shouldn't be booed, and I also feel Cubs fans are increasingly becoming a group that could be thrown in with the collection of fan bases that are often referred to as poor because of the way players are treated.

I think the club, to an extent, is really exacerbating the whole problem. The whole Jacque Jones/bleacher love affair is not really helped by Carrie Muskat scolding and chiding the Cubs fanbase for booing in every single column on the site. It's like having your mother as the beat writer.

[Danny82]

Dempster should not be bood after blowing that save.

 

I don't care what kind of logic for it anyone wants to throw my way.

[LoneStarCubFan]

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game.

 

Give me a freaking break.

 

 

Seriously, this is absurd.

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I give you Moises Alou who, I believe, was making a hell of a lot more money at the time than Jones is now.

 

So you're excuse for Jones getting picked off 3 times in 2 weeks is that Alou ran poorly when he was a Cub? Like I said, absurd.

 

This pathetic excuse making for Jones is absolutely absurd.

 

Umm... no. I was responding to you asking to find somebody else who had done this. Took me about five seconds. But hey, if you want to change the subject since I made you look like an idiot, go right ahead.

[goonys evil twin]

Dempster should not be bood after blowing that save.

 

I don't care what kind of logic for it anyone wants to throw my way.

 

Was Dempster being booed or was the entire team and situation being booed, including Dempster?

 

It's easy to say you shouldn't boo a closer for blowing his first save in 26 chances, but it's absurd to say you can't comprehend why fans would boo after losing that game.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I generally have no issues with booing a player who sucks or does stupid things. Dempster's blown save was about the equivalent of Lee going 0-4 with an error that led to a couple of unearned runs. His overall body of work has proven him to be better and that his next game will be better. I understand the frustration, but Dempster is one of the very few players on this team that should get a free pass after one bad performance.

[LuvChicagoSports]

I think the club, to an extent, is really exacerbating the whole problem. The whole Jacque Jones/bleacher love affair is not really helped by Carrie Muskat scolding and chiding the Cubs fanbase for booing in every single column on the site. It's like having your mother as the beat writer.

 

I agree with you, in the sense that the booing has gotten worse since the players have complained and the organization has gone out of it's way to make a point that it isn't helping and isn't a good thing. However, in the end it makes us look bad and not the organization.

[goonys evil twin]

Umm... no. I was responding to you asking to find somebody else who had done this. Took me about five seconds. But hey, if you want to change the subject since I made you look like an idiot, go right ahead.

 

He did it 3 times in 2 weeks?

 

How did you make me look like an idiot? Is that your goal, to make other posters look like idiots? You are defending Jacque Jones by saying he wasn't the first guy to get picked off a base. The point is he's the only idiot on this team of idiots to get picked off from 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks. That's what makes him an idiot.

[goonys evil twin]

I generally have no issues with booing a player who sucks or does stupid things. Dempster's blown save was about the equivalent of Lee going 0-4 with an error that led to a couple of unearned runs. His overall body of work has proven him to be better and that his next game will be better. I understand the frustration, but Dempster is one of the very few players on this team that should get a free pass after one bad performance.

 

But in the middle of a disastrous stretch of games, you can't expect anybody to get a free pass. And you can't seriously say you have no idea why fans would boo.

[JC]

And people need to lay the hell off of Jones and stop acting like he's the only guy who has ever been doubled off base in a game.

 

Give me a freaking break.

 

 

Seriously, this is absurd.

 

 

Name me another guy who got picked off 2nd 3 times in 2 weeks on the same exact freaking play. Quit making freaking excuses, this is ridiculous.

 

I give you Moises Alou who, I believe, was making a hell of a lot more money at the time than Jones is now.

 

So you're excuse for Jones getting picked off 3 times in 2 weeks is that Alou ran poorly when he was a Cub? Like I said, absurd.

 

This pathetic excuse making for Jones is absolutely absurd.

 

Umm... no. I was responding to you asking to find somebody else who had done this. Took me about five seconds. But hey, if you want to change the subject since I made you look like an idiot, go right ahead.

 

If you think comparing Jones to Alou (and only Alou) on the basepaths either absolves him from criticism or supports your position, you are casting the idiot moniker at the wrong person.

Edited May 17, 2006 by JC

I think the club, to an extent, is really exacerbating the whole problem. The whole Jacque Jones/bleacher love affair is not really helped by Carrie Muskat scolding and chiding the Cubs fanbase for booing in every single column on the site. It's like having your mother as the beat writer.

 

I agree with you, in the sense that the booing has gotten worse since the players have complained and the organization has gone out of it's way to make a point that it isn't helping and isn't a good thing. However, in the end it makes us look bad and not the organization.

Still, come on. What do you do when your mom wags her finger in your face and yells at you for doing something? You do it some more. That's the case here.

 

Getting inundated almost daily with "the club and its players do not condone this booing! Stop this booing! Stop now! Stop! Right Dusty? 'Hey, dude, don't boo.' See? Now stop!" just makes me want to boo them because I resent being scolded so damn much.

[goonys evil twin]

I think the club, to an extent, is really exacerbating the whole problem. The whole Jacque Jones/bleacher love affair is not really helped by Carrie Muskat scolding and chiding the Cubs fanbase for booing in every single column on the site. It's like having your mother as the beat writer.

 

I agree with you, in the sense that the booing has gotten worse since the players have complained and the organization has gone out of it's way to make a point that it isn't helping and isn't a good thing. However, in the end it makes us look bad and not the organization.

Still, come on. What do you do when your mom wags her finger in your face and yells at you for doing something? You do it some more. That's the case here.

 

Getting inundated almost daily with "the club and its players do not condone this booing! Stop this booing! Stop now! Stop! Right Dusty? 'Hey, dude, don't boo.' See? Now stop!" just makes me want to boo them because I resent being scolded so damn much.

 

Stop complaining about the Cubs.

[1908]

Play nice.

[YearofDaCubs]

While I agree that throwing a ball at one of the players is never justified, Jones has been terrible running the bases. How many times did he have blunders like this while he was playing for the Twins? Are the lack of fundamentals and blunders attributed to the coaching staff because this is getting ridiculous. Baker doesn't hold anybody accounted for and I think that's the biggest problem. JJones should be benched today. Give him time to think about his mistakes, punish these guys, do something damn it!! And then they wonder why we boo them. The booing is well deserved IMO. Phillies have no problem signing free agents and their fans are the worst so I don't want to hear that crap that free agents won't sign here. That's exactly the same BS Baker said a couple years ago when he was supposedly getting calls from players asking him if Wrigley was that bad.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I generally have no issues with booing a player who sucks or does stupid things. Dempster's blown save was about the equivalent of Lee going 0-4 with an error that led to a couple of unearned runs. His overall body of work has proven him to be better and that his next game will be better. I understand the frustration, but Dempster is one of the very few players on this team that should get a free pass after one bad performance.

 

But in the middle of a disastrous stretch of games, you can't expect anybody to get a free pass. And you can't seriously say you have no idea why fans would boo.

 

I actually said I understand the frustrations, and yes I can expect someone to get a free pass. Dempster has been one of the best closers in all of baseball since he was put in the role. He had more consecutive saves than any other reliever in team history, and didn't he also set the record for consecutive scoreless innings as well? Regardless, he has performed at an extremely high level this season and had 1 bad outing. I used Lee as an example in my last post. In the midst of a losing streak last season, when Lee was dominating the league, would an 0-4 performance with a 3-run error resulting in a 4-3 loss mean he should get booed? No, he should also get a free pass because his overall body of work was amazing. Everyone has a bad day. With this team, you shouldn't boo the ones who only have 1.

[JC]

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/teamwork.jpg

[LoneStarCubFan]

Heaping the blame for the Cubs' failures on Jacque Jones is beyond ridiculous. Acting like he done the equivalent of go on a tri-state killing spree by getting doubled off base a few times is childish at best.

 

Especially when he's currently out performing ARam, who is making a hell of a lot more money and seems to be getting a pass on this.

 

Direct your anger at the guy who gave him a three-year deal. And the guy who isn't smart enough to platoon him.