Even with Lee, this team isn't half the team they were in 04

[ToThePain]

Compare these lineups - how does Hendry get away with letting this happen and still get an extension?

 

2004 Lineup

• Corey Patterson
  Todd Walker
  Sammy Sosa
  Moises Alou
  Nomar Garciaparra
  Derrek Lee
  Aramis Rameriez
  Michael Barrett

 

2006 Lineup

• Juan Pierre
  Ronny Cedeno
  Todd Walker
  Derrek Lee
  Aramis Rameriez
  Michael Barrett
  Matt Murton
  Jaque Jones

 

That 2004 lineup was murderers row... even with Lee, it seems pretty clear that this 2006 team isn't even a shade of what it once was. Sure players move on, retire, get injured.. but Hendry hasn't maintained this team, hasn't gotten replacements on par with those who have left.

[sunnydoo]

And thank god for it....that 2004 team embarrassed me to be part of Cub fandom- the only time i can recall that in 30+ years of following the Cubbies.

 

You also left off many salient points.

 

Garciaparra only played 30 games for the Cubs that year. Our starting SS was a platoon of Martinez/Perez/Macias- depending on who was hurt.

 

Sosa only played in 126 games. TWalk platooned with Grudz and only started 129.

 

Players who hit more than .300 and played 130: ARam at .318

Players who hit 40 HRs: Zero

Players with .900 OPS: ARam and Alou

Players who had more than 100 RBIs: ARam 103 and Alou 106

Players with .350 OBP and more than 130 games played: Lee ARam and Alou

 

Not much has changed in 2 years.

[A New Era]

Plus Derreck Lee and Ramirez weren't the calibur players in 2004 that they are now. They are more like the new Sammy Sosa and Mouises Alou.

 

But I do agree that this team is weaker. We are probably missing 1 big bat. Remember Lee and Ram were still pretty good in 2004 and we are lacking someone else of their calibur to go along with the 2 big boppers. .

[UMFan83]

Embarassment off the field maybe, but at least they could hit better then this bunch.

 

Look at their lineup though:

 

Corey - Not a leadoff hitter, cant get on base, sucked badly, don't blame them for getting rid of him (just WHEN they got rid of him)

Walker - Still on team

Sosa - Post steroids Sosa started to show, was cranky and a team distraction, don't blame them for getting rid of him

Alou - Sucked for 2 years of his contract then randomly got good, history of injuries and 2 straight healthy years made it a bad gamble to resign, aging and likely to decline (although he didn't), don't blame them for getting rid of him

Nomar - Injured all the time, no longer a viable SS defensively, very streaky, would have liked to have had him for LF or RF, might have a point here

Lee - Still on team

Ramirez - Still on team

Barrett - Still on team

 

Now think of all the players that we could have gotten to replace them? Not many. I think the biggest mistake was not trading Sosa for Floyd when the trade was on the table.

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Floyd

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Walker

[SouthSideRyan]

Who cares about them relative to the '04 team. The '04 Cubs would be the best team in the NL this year.

 

The point is this team sucks relative to the other teams in '06.

[EricG]

Corey Patterson- should they have kept him around? He's been turning it on lately but he was horrible in 2005.

Todd Walker- Grudz was the starting 2B in 2004 some say Walker is better than Grudz

Sammy- walked out of last game, begged for a trade

Alou- old and has spent time on the DL the last 2 years

Nomar- Started the season with Alex Gonzalez at SS. Ramon Martinez played a lot of SS. Picked up Neifi because Nomar couldn't play everyday. Did get Murton in the trade. But he is the reason we signed Neifi.

Lee, Ramirez and Barrett are the 3 constants.

 

Pierre- I wasn't a fan of the trade. They went with speed and stolen bases at leadoff but forgot about OBP.

Jones- I wasn't a fan of the signing. Would have been better off with Corey in RF.

Murton and Cedeno- I say let the kids play they don't suck.

[ToThePain]

And thank god for it....that 2004 team embarrassed me to be part of Cub fandom- the only time i can recall that in 30+ years of following the Cubbies.

 

Well, if you're not embarassed now you must be a hard man to shame.

 

 

You also left off many salient points.

 

Garciaparra only played 30 games for the Cubs that year. Our starting SS was a platoon of Martinez/Perez/Macias- depending on who was hurt.

 

Sosa only played in 126 games. TWalk platooned with Grudz and only started 129.

 

Players who hit more than .300 and played 130: ARam at .318

Players who hit 40 HRs: Zero

Players with .900 OPS: ARam and Alou

Players who had more than 100 RBIs: ARam 103 and Alou 106

Players with .350 OBP and more than 130 games played: Lee ARam and Alou

 

Not much has changed in 2 years.

 

Everything has changed in 2 years - I also included Lee on the 2006 list even though he's missing 8-10 weeks with a broken wrist. Players get hurt but the potential of that 04 offense was infinitely better than what the Cubs started 06 with.

[ToThePain]

Now think of all the players that we could have gotten to replace them? Not many. I think the biggest mistake was not trading Sosa for Floyd when the trade was on the table.

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Floyd

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Walker

 

Last I checked, Floyd was hitting about .186 and he absolutely can NOT hit left handed pitching. I don't think he's the answer. The Cubs need every day offense.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

TWalk platooned with Grudz and only started 129.

Still not over that one yet? Grudz still out played him. :P

[CubfaninCA]

hmmmm

 

lee 04 v. lee 06. even tho he's hurt, lee 06 is much better now

walker/grudz 04 v. walker 06. walker 06 is off to a hot start.

gonzo/nomar v. cedeno. considering nomar played 30 games or so. cedeno

aram 04 v. aram 06. aram's off to a slow start, but give me aram 06.

alou v. murton. alou was a superior slugger, so alou,

patterson v. pierre. both suk.

sosa v. jones. obviously sosa

barrett 04 v. barrett 06. give me barrett 06.

[ToThePain]

Corey Patterson- should they have kept him around? He's been turning it on lately but he was horrible in 2005.

Todd Walker- Grudz was the starting 2B in 2004 some say Walker is better than Grudz

Sammy- walked out of last game, begged for a trade

Alou- old and has spent time on the DL the last 2 years

Nomar- Started the season with Alex Gonzalez at SS. Ramon Martinez played a lot of SS. Picked up Neifi because Nomar couldn't play everyday. Did get Murton in the trade. But he is the reason we signed Neifi.

Lee, Ramirez and Barrett are the 3 constants.

 

I never suggested they should have kept all those guys around - I'm merely suggesting that their replacements aren't of the same offensive caliber.

[UMFan83]

Now think of all the players that we could have gotten to replace them? Not many. I think the biggest mistake was not trading Sosa for Floyd when the trade was on the table.

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Floyd

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Walker

 

Last I checked, Floyd was hitting about .186 and he absolutely can NOT hit left handed pitching. I don't think he's the answer. The Cubs need every day offense.

 

My bad, I didn't look at his splits, I just remembered that he had a pretty good year last year.

[CubfaninCA]

the big difference between the two teams is that the 04 team had a few more sluggers. the 06 team will probably get a lot more singles.

[ToThePain]

the big difference between the two teams is that the 04 team had a few more sluggers. the 06 team will probably get a lot more singles.

 

That 04 outfield combined for about 100 HRs - I'd be stunned if the 06 outfield combined for 50. I understand that this is a different kind of team, but that's still a lot of offensive production tossed to the winds.

[CubfaninCA]

the big difference between the two teams is that the 04 team had a few more sluggers. the 06 team will probably get a lot more singles.

 

That 04 outfield combined for about 100 HRs - I'd be stunned if the 06 outfield combined for 50. I understand that this is a different kind of team, but that's still a lot of offensive production tossed to the winds.

 

no doubt they lost slugging, but everyone wants guys who take walks.

[David]

Man, I, unlike many others here, it seems, really liked that 04 team.

 

They would've won well over 90 games if not for that terrible late collapse. All season was fun to watch and they played well most of the year. I was so looking forward to a potential Cubs/Cards NLCS.

 

Plus, there was the Nomar trade. Who wasn't unbelievably excited that day? Man, what a fun season.

 

 

BTW, to whoever said otherwise (I think it was GilesBros), Aramis had his best season as a Cub in 2004.

[Outshined_One]

I'm still convinced that team would have made the playoffs if Baker hadn't screwed up so many times with his idiotic lineups and terrible bullpen management.

 

Ugh, just thinking of the last 10 games of that season makes me feel ill.

[Soul]

Man, I, unlike many others here, it seems, really liked that 04 team.

 

They would've won well over 90 games if not for that terrible late collapse. All season was fun to watch and they played well most of the year. I was so looking forward to a potential Cubs/Cards NLCS.

 

Plus, there was the Nomar trade. Who wasn't unbelievably excited that day? Man, what a fun season.

 

 

BTW, to whoever said otherwise (I think it was GilesBros), Aramis had his best season as a Cub in 2004.

 

Agreed. And regardless of what actually happened in '04, the point is which team was a better assembled ballclub?

 

The '04 Cubs were, when they were put together, a contending ballclub. This year's Cub team was a 3rd place club from the beginning. Part of that is because we didn't know Prior & Wood would be D/L junkies in '04. But no matter. We do now, so we knew they wouldn't be here in '06----and big suprise they aren't.