Getting sick of Juan Pierre.

[RynoRules]

That fact that this thread got started during a winning streak and a good start to a season where we are missing three of our five best players is telling. It tells me that some amongst us will never be happy.

 

Yes, Pierre has been bad. No, I am not particularly happy with his start at the plate. No, I am not going to panic or start basing him yet -its April.

[soapy]

That fact that this thread got started during a winning streak and a good start to a season where we are missing three of our five best players is telling. It tells me that some amongst us will never be happy.

 

Yes, Pierre has been bad. No, I am not particularly happy with his start at the plate. No, I am not going to panic or start basing him yet -its April.

 

Are people panicing? I'm very glad the Cubs are having a winning streak, but it doesn't alleviate all concerns about the offense. Pierre has clearly struggled to date (as he did last year). I really hope he breaks out of it (and I think he can), but if he doesn't, the Cubs offense will struggle to be productive. Same could be said for Ramirez, though I have a little less concern about him.

[Warpticon]

Something else to think about too for all of you stat geeks out there....

 

do you guys really think it is an accident that the Cubs lead the league in average with runners on and with runners in scoring position?

 

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers? Just look at TWalks numbers that have decreased over the last week since he was put in the #3 spot and Cedeno getting hot in the #2? Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it.

 

Um, you do know Cedeno's average has dropped 47 points since moving to #2, right?

[RynoRules]

That fact that this thread got started during a winning streak and a good start to a season where we are missing three of our five best players is telling. It tells me that some amongst us will never be happy.

 

Yes, Pierre has been bad. No, I am not particularly happy with his start at the plate. No, I am not going to panic or start basing him yet -its April.

 

Are people panicing? I'm very glad the Cubs are having a winning streak, but it doesn't alleviate all concerns about the offense. Pierre has clearly struggled to date (as he did last year). I really hope he breaks out of it (and I think he can), but if he doesn't, the Cubs offense will struggle to be productive. Same could be said for Ramirez, though I have a little less concern about him.

 

That's a very fair point, actually. The team OBP through Monday was an alarming .316 (not counting Lee). That is something to be concerend about. I just don't think Pierre is solely to blame, and I am willing to wait a liitle while longer before I take him, Ramirez and the other struggling components out behind the woodshed. Moreover, it should be noted that almost no one on the team (excepting Walker, Lee and Murton) has been taking walks with any regularity.

 

I am rooting for Pierre to turn it around. And I think its stupid to refer to him as a "girl". You want to do that, put this in "rants".

[cheapseats]

That fact that this thread got started during a winning streak and a good start to a season where we are missing three of our five best players is telling. It tells me that some amongst us will never be happy.

 

Not necessarily.

 

When I was in school, I played on a very successful basketball team. In my last season, we only lost four games. We lost those four games by a total of six points (two 2-point losses and two 1-point losses). Our coach didn't yell at us after any of the four losses. We executed well. Sometimes our shots just didn't fall, but that happens. The coach actually took the blame for one loss (rightfully so) because he called some bad plays down the stretch.

 

He did criticize us after many of our wins. I remember him being especially angry after we won a game by 30+ points. We were much more talented than the other team, but we didn't execute our offense properly, and we didn't position ourselves correctly on defense.

 

His point was that the outcome of a game doesn't always reflect how well the teams played. Therefore, the outcome of a game is not the best predictor for the outcome of future games.

 

Calling a moratorium on critical thought because a team is winning is short-sighted. This is especially true in April. Several teams that made the playoffs had losing records at this point last year.

 

Yes, Pierre has been bad. No, I am not particularly happy with his start at the plate. No, I am not going to panic or start basing him yet -its April.

 

I'm not crazy about the Juan Pierre trade, and I wasn't when it was announced. I don't dislike Pierre personally, and it's true that we needed a centerfielder, but I wish Hendry had gotten someone else.

 

I'm not upset with Pierre for his OBP; it's not as if he is trying to make outs. He probably will raise his OBP to the .340 to .350 range as the season progresses.

 

I'm not upset with Pierre when baserunners take an extra base on him because of his arm. Hendry knew he had a weak arm when he signed him, and there's nothing that Pierre can do about his noodle arm.

 

I will get upset with Pierre when he makes bad baserunning decisions. He was caught so often in 2004 that he actually hurt the Marlins' ability to score runs. So far he's been perfect in basestealing opportunities. I know that won't hold up over the year, but I hope he chooses his spots to run carefully. His baserunning can be an asset without attempting 80 steals, and there's data that proves it.

[sunnydoo]

How do you really quantify the effect that Pierre has on the basepaths when the pitcher starts paying more attention to him than the hitter at the plate with your silly little numbers?

 

This brings up a question I have ....

 

In a game earlier this season, I can't remember the exact one ... Pierre led off the game bunting for a single. Walker makes a quick out without advancing Pierre. DLee comes up to bat and quickly gets behind 1-2 in the count. The pitcher starts throwing over to first every other pitch to hold Pierre on, knowing that Pierre is expecting a breaking ball on a 1-2 count. Result? DLee comes back from a 1-2 count for a walk, with the pitcher obviously distracted by Pierre.

 

 

The result of the walk leaves Pierre at 2nd, Lee at 1st with Barret up (Aram was out) with 1 out .... Pierre steals third the very next pitch off a great jump (which advances Lee to 2nd), and the catcher makes an errant, rushed throw to third. As the ball trickles into the outfield, Pierre easily trots in home and Lee advances to 3rd with 1 out. Lee later scored on a lazy Barret sac fly.

 

In essence, Pierre "manufactured" TWO runs in that inning ... both his and Lee's. I would like to know if there is a stat out there that would accredit Pierre in any way for Lee's. If not, then there really is a lot of weight to the fact that our current stats do not entirely take into account or reflect the impact of speed on the game.

 

I totally agree with this post, and the earlier liink doesn't take this scenario into account because Lee's BB isnt an official AB. Therefore it doesnt count his run.

 

I am just not buying the kool-aid Saber is selling in this dept.

[goonys evil twin]

Man, he's really sucked this year.

[Geech]

How about that pathetic throw he lobbed in from center today?

[Chocolate Milk]

Juan Pierre so far:

OPS: 620

 

Corey Patterson last year:

OPS: 602

[don_kessinger_was_good]

DO NOT EXTEND SLAPPY PIERRE. Let him walk after the season. Give the job to Pie for 07, and look for a middle infielder to bat leadoff.

 

I agree with an earlier post, Pierre really does play like a girl. Can he even hit the ball 300 feet?

[sethuel1]

DO NOT EXTEND SLAPPY PIERRE. Let him walk after the season. Give the job to Pie for 07, and look for a middle infielder to bat leadoff.

 

I agree with an earlier post, Pierre really does play like a girl. Can he even hit the ball 300 feet?

 

Finding a leadoff hitter is overrated anyway.

 

let Pierre walk, bring up Pie, re-sign Walker, and spend the additional budget on finding a good offensive right fielder.

[KatJ]

DO NOT EXTEND SLAPPY PIERRE. Let him walk after the season. Give the job to Pie for 07, and look for a middle infielder to bat leadoff.

 

Okay, I almost agree with you this time. Slap Crappy does not deserve an extension - keep Pie in the minors this year, and tell Crappy and the arbitrator (or would he be FA?) to take a hike.

 

I don't know what the market is for 2B in the offseason, but Walker wouldn't be the worst option for that position or leadoff. Unfortunately, Luis Castillo has an option with the Twins for 2007.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

[Geech]

E-Pat should be ready by 2007. I would like to see the Cobs give him a shot at second.

[sethuel1]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

 

Isn't ~180 games a larger sample size?

[RyCubsFan]

I'm not sure I can handle Jones and Pierre in the outfield all year. I'm ready for Pie to come and take one of the spots. Only problem is, I can't tell who is worse of the two.

[goonys evil twin]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

 

Yep, if you're trying to predict the rest of the season. But no matter how small the sample size, it doesn't change the fact that he's sucked this year.

 

 

Last season combined with the first 20 games does, however, provide a pretty significant sample size.

[sethuel1]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

Last season combined with the first 20 games does, however, provide a pretty significant sample size.

beat you to it

[UMFan83]

10 K's and 3 BB for Pierre this year. That is a 0.30 BB/K rate. His previous low BB/K rate was 0.60 in 2003. Last year it was 0.91.

 

He projects to strike out 84 times in 667 ABs (his average over the last 3 seasons). His previous career high in K's was 52 in 2002 (617 ABs)

 

He projects to walk 25 times in 667 AB. His previous career low in BB's was 31 in 2002.

 

He also projects to get 17 RBI (obvious his low), 119 R (actually his career high), 60 SB (close to his high of 65), etc. etc.

 

Bottom line, he has been terrible, a bust right now. Yes yes its a short sample size. He can't hit like this all year....can he?......CAN HE?

[goonys evil twin]

Bottom line, he has been terrible, a bust right now. Yes yes its a short sample size. He can't hit like this all year....can he?......CAN HE?

 

No, he can't. He will improve. Problem is, he could improve significantly and still be disappointing.

[TruffleShuffle]

E-Pat should be ready by 2007. I would like to see the Cobs give him a shot at second.

 

I agree. Only problem is, I like Todd Walker and think he's undervalued and a bargain. Plus, he's hardly the problem with the Cubs offense. The real problem is having a CF who can't get on base and a RF who can't hit.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

 

Yep, if you're trying to predict the rest of the season. But no matter how small the sample size, it doesn't change the fact that he's sucked this year.

 

 

Last season combined with the first 20 games does, however, provide a pretty significant sample size.

Shouldn't you worry more about the White Sox?

[sethuel1]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

 

Yep, if you're trying to predict the rest of the season. But no matter how small the sample size, it doesn't change the fact that he's sucked this year.

 

 

Last season combined with the first 20 games does, however, provide a pretty significant sample size.

Shouldn't you worry more about the White Sox?

i am unsure of what this even means, but I doubt it should be taken as anything other than an insult.

[goonys evil twin]

Isn't 20 games a small sample size?

 

Yep, if you're trying to predict the rest of the season. But no matter how small the sample size, it doesn't change the fact that he's sucked this year.

 

 

Last season combined with the first 20 games does, however, provide a pretty significant sample size.

Shouldn't you worry more about the White Sox?

 

I don't think the Cubs face the White Sox for a couple months, right?

[bhogg]

if Pierre scores 119 runs and steals 60 bags, I don't give a rat's butt what his OPSLAKDKAHGO + / - VORP is.