Ramirez did not look good last night

[TheDude]

I think it was sixth inning, when the Cubs were losing 1-0. Pierre was on 3rd, Lee on 1st with one out. Ramirez at the plate. The best opportunity all game to climb back into it.

 

Lowe did not throw Ramirez a single pitch in the strike zone the entire at bat and Ramirez struck out. The situation dictated a fly ball to the outfield, because a ground ball was likely a double play to end the inning. Everything Lowe threw started at the knees and dove down and out of the zone before it got to plate - never mind the fact that none of the pitches were strikes, Ramirez wasn't going to hit a fly ball on any of those pitches. But he was swinging away anyway.

 

I know he has always been an aggressive hitter, but I can't recall him ever completely diregarding the situation like that before. He had to know that making contact with any of those shoe-top sinkers was more likely to end the inning than score the run.

 

He really needs to wake up.

[rjchapma]

His last swing looked pathetic. The ball wasnt even close to the strike zone and he didnt even make a good atempt at trying to make contact.

[goonys evil twin]

Unfortunately that's nothing new for Aramis. He's incredibly talented, but he's just got an awful approach at the plate. And being on the Cubs, nobody is there to tell him otherwise. He epitomizes the over aggressive hitter who gets by on skills alone. I still think he'll have a fine season, and probably a very good next several years. But as he gets older, if he fails to improve his approach, he will start to stumble.

[USSoccer]

Aramis started last season with similar stuggles. He'll be okay.

[Wilson A2000]

Lowe had a great sinker working last night. Mabry looked dumbfounded. That was not a good at bat. But aren't the Cub pinch hitters leading the league or close to it?

[goonys evil twin]

Lowe had a great sinker working last night. Mabry looked dumbfounded. That was not a good at bat. But aren't the Cub pinch hitters leading the league or close to it?

 

Cubs pinch hitters are putting up a .389/.421/.722 line right now, good for third in the league. But that's only 18 at bats. Overall they are 12th in the NL in OPS.

 

Although it's still way too early to make much of these numbers.

[JonnyRed]

I'm not worried about A-Ram. Once he gets zoned it, his numbers will come up in a hurry.

[jyoung55]

He's just flailing at any ball tossed up there. Its the kind of swing your high school coach would yell at you for to keep your head on the ball, not that I would know anything about that :wink: . Hopefully, its mostly just a timing issue.

[Jon]

I think it was sixth inning, when the Cubs were losing 1-0. Pierre was on 3rd, Lee on 1st with one out. Ramirez at the plate. The best opportunity all game to climb back into it.

 

Lowe did not throw Ramirez a single pitch in the strike zone the entire at bat and Ramirez struck out. The situation dictated a fly ball to the outfield, because a ground ball was likely a double play to end the inning. Everything Lowe threw started at the knees and dove down and out of the zone before it got to plate - never mind the fact that none of the pitches were strikes, Ramirez wasn't going to hit a fly ball on any of those pitches. But he was swinging away anyway.

 

I know he has always been an aggressive hitter, but I can't recall him ever completely diregarding the situation like that before. He had to know that making contact with any of those shoe-top sinkers was more likely to end the inning than score the run.

 

He really needs to wake up.

That could be said for a lot of hitters last night, including Lee, Barrett, Walker, and Murton. Nobody looked good at all.

[TheDude]

I'm not worried about Ramirez's eventual numbers. I'm sure they will approach his 3 year averages. What bothers me is his seeming lack of hitting knowledge.

 

In a 1-0 game, Pierre did what he is supposed to do - use his speed to get into scoring position with less than 2 outs. He scores on any reasonable fly ball. So it's baffling to me that Ramirez would swing at 3 sinking pitches at his ankles that have zero chance in hell of being fly balls.

 

That's more than aggression, that's lack of hitting knowledge.

[goonys evil twin]

That's more than aggression, that's lack of hitting knowledge.

 

But they go hand in hand. Smart hitting is not aggressive hitting at all times. Yet the Cubs teach aggressive at all times. They talk about being aggressive and downplay the value of walks, but then they act surprised when a guy looks silly in an at-bat like that. They really do go hand in hand. Smart hitters are patient. They've had a swing early and swing often mantra up and down the ranks of the organization, and it can't surprise anybody when guys fail in sitautions like this. It's the price you pay when you rely on talent and skills and ignore approach.

[Wilson A2000]

I think it was sixth inning, when the Cubs were losing 1-0. Pierre was on 3rd, Lee on 1st with one out. Ramirez at the plate. The best opportunity all game to climb back into it.

 

Lowe did not throw Ramirez a single pitch in the strike zone the entire at bat and Ramirez struck out. The situation dictated a fly ball to the outfield, because a ground ball was likely a double play to end the inning. Everything Lowe threw started at the knees and dove down and out of the zone before it got to plate - never mind the fact that none of the pitches were strikes, Ramirez wasn't going to hit a fly ball on any of those pitches. But he was swinging away anyway.

 

I know he has always been an aggressive hitter, but I can't recall him ever completely diregarding the situation like that before. He had to know that making contact with any of those shoe-top sinkers was more likely to end the inning than score the run.

 

He really needs to wake up.

That could be said for a lot of hitters last night, including Lee, Barrett, Walker, and Murton. Nobody looked good at all.

 

Jones did. But he was taken out.

[BigbadB]

I'm not worried about Ramirez's eventual numbers. I'm sure they will approach his 3 year averages. What bothers me is his seeming lack of hitting knowledge.

 

In a 1-0 game, Pierre did what he is supposed to do - use his speed to get into scoring position with less than 2 outs. He scores on any reasonable fly ball. So it's baffling to me that Ramirez would swing at 3 sinking pitches at his ankles that have zero chance in hell of being fly balls.

 

That's more than aggression, that's lack of hitting knowledge.

 

Those sinking pitches aren't so easy to recognize. Derek Lowe has made a career out of those sinking pitches.

 

Is it possible that Aramis was guessing one of those pitches would be a 4 seem fastball that wouldn't sink? Is it possible he was making such bad swings because he was trying to get some lift on his swing on those sinkers, nnowing that if he couldn't get the ball in the air he was looking at a double play grounder?

 

I don't know. I'm just asking. He did look bad, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Lowe had his good sinker working last night.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Was it a case of Aramis not knowing the pitcher? Any good hitter can lift any pitch, if they have an idea of where the location would be. Anyone seen Vlad homer off a pitch at his shoelaces? It can be done.

[DesMoinesCub]

I think it was more of a case of Lowe being on rather then anything else. Could Cubs hitters have been more patient? Probably, but sometimes you just get out played, and I think this is what happened last night.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Ramirez may be struggling at the plate, but he's been solid in the field. Everyone goes through slumps in 162 games. He just started out in one. I'd be more worried if his D was in the toilet and he was hitting .300. You know he has the offense and it will eventually work itself out.

[Soul]

Lowe made all our hitters look bad last night. Why are we singling out Ramirez again? It was a one-run lead. Every at bat offers a chance to get back into it. D-Lee looked pretty sorry last night too. Shall we single him out for a thrashing?

[TheDude]

Lowe made all our hitters look bad last night. Why are we singling out Ramirez again? It was a one-run lead. Every at bat offers a chance to get back into it. D-Lee looked pretty sorry last night too. Shall we single him out for a thrashing?

 

Missed the point. It doesn't matter who looked bad against Lowe and who didn't throughout the game. Ramirez was the hitter in the situation to tie the game, and it was the only such situation of the game to that point. If there was nobody on base for that at bat, then you are correct, isolating him would be harsh.

 

But it was Ramirez's fundamental approach to the situation that raised my brow. Nobody else was in that situation, so bringing up other hitters is irrelevant.

 

From my perspective, the one-run pitchers' duels are the games the Cubs need to win if they want to make any noise this year. A team built on pitching and with good team speed should be suited to win these games. And the Cubs had the exact situation they wanted and prepared for in the offseason - the new leadoff hitter reaching and creating a run opportunity with speed so that the power in the lineup comes up with RBI opportunities in a close game situation.

 

I know it's one game, one situation, so in the long run no big deal. I'm not in panic mode. But the approach to hitting shown in that situation is a hitting strategy issue that will continue to pop-up throughout the season, so it's a concern worth discussing.

 

I would have much rather had Murton or Walker up in that situation than Ramirez (and in future such situations), because they know situational hitting and Ramirez apparently doesn't.

[bhogg]

So when the opposition hits our pitchers, it's due to sucky pitching.

 

 

When we fail to execute at the plate, it's due to our sucky hitting.

 

 

ARam will be fine. He has a decent enough eye, makes good contact, etc. He's slumping. It happens.

 

 

Not to sound dusty-esque, but last night was one of those "tip your hat" kind of performances.

[goonys evil twin]

Not to sound dusty-esque, but last night was one of those "tip your hat" kind of performances.

 

 

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I'm sick of that line. A lot of these "tip your cap" games are really just a perfect example of the Cubs stupid approach at the plate.

 

If you're facing Pedro and he's on and shreds your lineup, then you tip your cap. But when you look foolish against the highly mediocre Derek Lowe, you've got problems. It's pretty amazing how many entirely unimpressive pitchers can have such dominant performances against the Cubs year after year. A swing at everything approach is the reason why so many guys can look great against the Cubs.

 

Hopefully the semi-new look lineup can at least partially change that problem the rest of the season.

[BigbadB]

I agree and disagree. Derek Lowe lives and dies by his sinker. When it's on, he's very tough to hit. When it's on, most of the contact will be ground balls, just like we all saw last night.

 

Even if Ramirez made contact, there was no guarantee that he wouldn't have grounded into a double play. That's how good Lowe's sinker was working last night. It was working so well, he basically relied on it most of the night. When his sinker is not working as well as it was last night, he has to rely more heavily on his other pitches, which in turn get crushed. The same argument can be made for just about any other pitcher in the league. The better pitchers just have their good stuff working better more often. Maddux is no stranger to this. Of course, some of his blow ups come at the expense of the umpire not giving him the close ones, but when he doesn't have his "good" stuff, he can get hit pretty hard.

 

Now, with that said.....

 

When a pitcher clearly has their good stuff working, you have to make adjustments. One of those adjustments is showing more patience at the plate. Watching Neifi hit in his last at bat of the game, I felt he actually did make an adjustment. He ended up grounding out, but he took some pitches to work the count in hopes of drawing a walk.

 

The one thing about Lowe when his good stuff is working, most of those pitches aren't going to be strikes by the time they hit the catcher's mitt. Cub hitters could not lay off his sinker, which allowed Lowe to continue using it. If they laid off, Lowe likely would have been behind in counts and forced to throw something other than his sinker. But, as Goony says, the Cubs do preach an aggressive approach at the plate. And those sinkers do look like they are coming down broadway at the exact moment you have to make the decision of whether to swing at the pitch or not.

 

I don't know. It was a tough game to watch offensively. But, I can't single out any particular hitter. Aramis typically doesn't strike out all that much. Murton looked more foolish in his at bat against Saito than any other Cub hitter on this particular evening.

[soccer10k]

I think it was sixth inning, when the Cubs were losing 1-0. Pierre was on 3rd, Lee on 1st with one out. Ramirez at the plate. The best opportunity all game to climb back into it.

 

Lowe did not throw Ramirez a single pitch in the strike zone the entire at bat and Ramirez struck out. The situation dictated a fly ball to the outfield, because a ground ball was likely a double play to end the inning. Everything Lowe threw started at the knees and dove down and out of the zone before it got to plate - never mind the fact that none of the pitches were strikes, Ramirez wasn't going to hit a fly ball on any of those pitches. But he was swinging away anyway.

 

I know he has always been an aggressive hitter, but I can't recall him ever completely diregarding the situation like that before. He had to know that making contact with any of those shoe-top sinkers was more likely to end the inning than score the run.

 

He really needs to wake up.

That could be said for a lot of hitters last night, including Lee, Barrett, Walker, and Murton. Nobody looked good at all.

 

Jones did. But he was taken out.

 

Yeah, the one day that Jones actually hits well, Dusty takes him out early.

[BigbadB]

That was actually a good call on Dusty's part. It also led to the 1 run that scored. Jones has been missing games due to an injury that affects his ability to run. Putting him in a position to have to attempt to go 1st to 3rd or even score on a double was not in the best interests of the team. I can't blame Dusty for that move. In fact, I applaud it.

[Soul]

Lowe made all our hitters look bad last night. Why are we singling out Ramirez again? It was a one-run lead. Every at bat offers a chance to get back into it. D-Lee looked pretty sorry last night too. Shall we single him out for a thrashing?

 

Missed the point. It doesn't matter who looked bad against Lowe and who didn't throughout the game. Ramirez was the hitter in the situation to tie the game, and it was the only such situation of the game to that point. If there was nobody on base for that at bat, then you are correct, isolating him would be harsh.

 

But it was Ramirez's fundamental approach to the situation that raised my brow. Nobody else was in that situation, so bringing up other hitters is irrelevant.

 

From my perspective, the one-run pitchers' duels are the games the Cubs need to win if they want to make any noise this year. A team built on pitching and with good team speed should be suited to win these games. And the Cubs had the exact situation they wanted and prepared for in the offseason - the new leadoff hitter reaching and creating a run opportunity with speed so that the power in the lineup comes up with RBI opportunities in a close game situation.

 

I know it's one game, one situation, so in the long run no big deal. I'm not in panic mode. But the approach to hitting shown in that situation is a hitting strategy issue that will continue to pop-up throughout the season, so it's a concern worth discussing.

 

I would have much rather had Murton or Walker up in that situation than Ramirez (and in future such situations), because they know situational hitting and Ramirez apparently doesn't.

 

With all due respect, it is you who missed the point. In a one run game, EVERY AT BAT is a chance to tie the game. Ramirez had a shot at tying the game and failed. So did just about everyone else. You are singling him out because that's the spot where you were hoping the game would be tied, and it didn't happen.

 

Ramirez's approach to hitting isn't going to change very much from AB to AB, because the manager, GM, owner, and everyone else who has Ramirez's ear are telling him to be a power-hitting run producer. That's his role on this team. We better fire Dusty & Hendry and bring in new guidance for this ballclub if we want a different approach from Ramirez. Maybe that should happen. Thrashing Ramirez for it though is unfair.

 

To say you'd rather have Walker or Murton up in that situation is fair. I might, too. What isn't fair is expecting Ramirez to *BE* Matt Murton when nobody in ARam's life is asking him to do that.