You cannot underestimate the importance of speed

[anemic offense]

It played a HUGE factor in today's game, and its presence should be prevalent throughout the season. Stats can be a great measure of one's performance, but it doesn't do many facets a great deal of justice. It's not just the ability to score with speed that's important, its being able to use it in certain situations thereby manipulating runs (in close games) which is. IMO, it will win us a substantial amount of games this season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

[Chocolate Milk]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

It depends on how fast he gets around the bases on that homerun.

[anemic offense]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

Not by me.

 

I just find it unbelievable how many try to diminish the importance of non-Moneyball facets of the game. That's not to say speed in and of itself will win games, however when watching today's game it was pretty easy to see it will be a determining factor in many. I thought it was importnat, that's all.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wednesday, that is, not tomorrow.

[goonys evil twin]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

It depends on how fast he gets around the bases on that homerun.

 

I think that thread should focus more on the harnessing of time travel, but that's just me.

[anemic offense]

Wednesday, that is, not tomorrow.

 

Everybody knew wht you meant.

 

Besides, there SHOULD be a game tommorrow anyway, but that's a whole other issue.

[Rob]

It played a HUGE factor in today's game, and its presence should be prevalent throughout the season. Stats can be a great measure of one's performance, but it doesn't do many facets a great deal of justice. It's not just the ability to score with speed that's important, its being able to use it in certain situations thereby manipulating runs (in close games) which is. IMO, it will win us a substantial amount of games this season.

 

Actually, scoring speed is extremely easy. Just grab a stopwatch.

 

And scoring the use of said speed isn't too difficult either.

 

So I don't see at all how saying speed is important somehow implies it matters more than stats, especially considering said stats include that speed.

[goonys evil twin]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

Not by me.

 

I just find it unbelievable how many try to diminish the importance of non-Moneyball facets of the game. That's not to say speed in and of itself will win games, however when watching today's game it was pretty easy to see it will be a determining factor in many. I thought it was importnat, that's all.

 

I find it unbelievable that people still use phrases like "moneyball facets of the game."

 

Some people choose not to glorify speed as the greatest thing in the game of baseball. If you want to call that "diminishing the importance" go right ahead.

[UMFan83]

I was going to start a similar thread titled "I LOVE SPEED" As I sorta eluded to in the game thread, I think speed will be a big factor in the success of our offense. Fast players cause defenders to make more hurried rushes to the ball on grounders, and cause them to potentially make bad rushed throws because they know they have to be perfect to get the runner out.

 

Obviously, it also affects how they run on the bases too, as we saw when Pagan (or was it Cedeno) made it in easily on that single through the left side by Walker. It is also a big deal to the pitcher, as he must spend time concentrating on the runner at first, and lose a bit of concentration on the batter.

 

I don't think the speed will affect the offense as much as it did today, but you'd be suprised how much of a dimension it adds to the team this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

It depends on how fast he gets around the bases on that homerun.

 

I think that thread should focus more on the harnessing of time travel, but that's just me.

 

I got it in. Suck it Trebek.

[anemic offense]

It played a HUGE factor in today's game, and its presence should be prevalent throughout the season. Stats can be a great measure of one's performance, but it doesn't do many facets a great deal of justice. It's not just the ability to score with speed that's important, its being able to use it in certain situations thereby manipulating runs (in close games) which is. IMO, it will win us a substantial amount of games this season.

 

Actually, scoring speed is extremely easy. Just grab a stopwatch.

 

And scoring the use of said speed isn't too difficult either.

 

So I don't see at all how saying speed is important somehow implies it matters more than stats, especially considering said stats include that speed.

 

Here we go again :roll: .

 

The point of this thread IS NOT that speed is more important than stats, or other facets of the game. Its' just that it gets SICKENING how some (not all) can discredit its importance because its not next to OBP and HRs in the statbook.

 

Look, I'll be the first to admit OBP and other things are much more important than speed. However as we saw today, our increase in overall team speed will be an asset which will put us over the top in more than a few games.

[anemic offense]

Will there be a similar thread if we win 1-0 on a solo home run tomorrow?

 

Not by me.

 

I just find it unbelievable how many try to diminish the importance of non-Moneyball facets of the game. That's not to say speed in and of itself will win games, however when watching today's game it was pretty easy to see it will be a determining factor in many. I thought it was importnat, that's all.

 

I find it unbelievable that people still use phrases like "moneyball facets of the game."

 

Some people choose not to glorify speed as the greatest thing in the game of baseball. If you want to call that "diminishing the importance" go right ahead.

 

I never said it was THE greatest thing. You sure are good at putting words in my mouth.

[cubweiser03]

Its nice when a guy comes up with guys in scoring position and you know they wont roll into the DP. Pierre coming up with the basesloaded you know he wont get doubled up and at least you will scratch in a run because he makes contact and can run. Never did i feel that with Corey. Same with Pagan. Cubs put the ball in play today and thus were able to utilize there speed. Cedeno beating out a sacrifice bunt too.

7BB

4ks

Good things can happen if you do that and add speed.

[Rob]

It played a HUGE factor in today's game, and its presence should be prevalent throughout the season. Stats can be a great measure of one's performance, but it doesn't do many facets a great deal of justice. It's not just the ability to score with speed that's important, its being able to use it in certain situations thereby manipulating runs (in close games) which is. IMO, it will win us a substantial amount of games this season.

 

Actually, scoring speed is extremely easy. Just grab a stopwatch.

 

And scoring the use of said speed isn't too difficult either.

 

So I don't see at all how saying speed is important somehow implies it matters more than stats, especially considering said stats include that speed.

 

Here we go again :roll: .

 

The point of this thread IS NOT that speed is more important than stats, or other facets of the game. Its' just that it gets SICKENING how some (not all) can discredit its importance because its not next to OBP and HRs in the statbook.

 

Look, I'll be the first to admit OBP and other things are much more important than speed. However as we saw today, our increase in overall team speed will be an asset which will put us over the top in more than a few games.

 

I wont debate that the speed will put us over the top in a few games. And I even recognize it's importance in keeping us from being so streaky as we've been the last few years. But what I could debate is that the cost of that speed might keep us from winning an equal number.

 

Yeah, given two guys with roughly equal abilities, where one is much faster than the other, it's obvious what to do.

 

But if you give me the option of Juan Pierre or Grady Sizemore, I'll pick Sizemore everytime. Sizemore's better Slug% more than makes up for the difference in speed.

 

Speed certainly is an asset. It's just not as much of a valuable asset to a large-market team like the Cubs. We can afford better talent than a guy like Juan Pierre, no matter how fast he is.

 

Now I certainly don't mean to discredit speed as being unimportant by any means, but I think it is important to keep things in perspective.

 

That all being said, I looooooved watching Pagan burning today.

[goonys evil twin]

The point of this thread IS NOT that speed is more important than stats, or other facets of the game. Its' just that it gets SICKENING how some (not all) can discredit its importance because its not next to OBP and HRs in the statbook.

 

Look, I'll be the first to admit OBP and other things are much more important than speed. However as we saw today, our increase in overall team speed will be an asset which will put us over the top in more than a few games.

 

So you admit that speed is not as important as OBP, but then you claim it's sickeninig that people don't think it's as important as OBP?

 

A fast player with no OBP isn't as good as a slow player with lots of OBP. If two guys have the same OBP, it's better to have the faster guy. But speed is already partly factored into OBP, because if a guy is fast he should be beating out more balls than others, which helps his OBP.

 

Is it really necessary to critique people who aren't as enamored of speed as you when you praise the speed of this team? I don't see the point. I don't think anybody is wishing for a slow team, or slower players. I think a lot of people put speed down the list of definitions of a good player. Speed is neither necessary to be good, nor does it guarantee you will be good. It's a small part of the package, but it can still be impactful.

[BigbadB]

I'm not against having good speed throughout the line up, but it wasn't speed that won today's game. It helped create more runs, but the ridiculous OBP in today's game mixed with 7 XBH's is what won this game.

 

What was the team OBP today? .600?

[frostwyrm]

Speed is too expensive, and it got a lot moreso after the Furcal contract. Pierre and others like him are going to be horribly overpaid soon. Smart GM's won't bother with SB because there are better ways to spend money. Edited April 4, 2006 by frostwyrm

[CubinNY]

ability to get on base> fast speed> average speed> slow speed

[Blueheart05]

I'm not against having good speed throughout the line up, but it wasn't speed that won today's game. It helped create more runs, but the ridiculous OBP in today's game mixed with 7 XBH's is what won this game.

 

What was the team OBP today? .600?

 

Yeah, but one could argue that speed played alot into the OBP because a fair number of the important hits were the infield variety. Speed also caused the MI to rush throws which lead to at least one error and a number of dropped balls that couldn't be fielded (which became INF Hits).

 

It was definitely a lot different than recent Cubs offenses. Only 3 of the 16 runs came via a homerun. There were lots of hits and a few sacs.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Blueheart05

[FergieJ31]

The point of this thread IS NOT that speed is more important than stats, or other facets of the game. Its' just that it gets SICKENING how some (not all) can discredit its importance because its not next to OBP and HRs in the statbook.

 

Look, I'll be the first to admit OBP and other things are much more important than speed. However as we saw today, our increase in overall team speed will be an asset which will put us over the top in more than a few games.

 

So you admit that speed is not as important as OBP, but then you claim it's sickeninig that people don't think it's as important as OBP?

 

 

Comparing "speed" vs "OBP" is comparing apples and oranges. You don't want to sacrifice too much team OBP for an increase in team speed, but how much is "too much"? We can take a proxy for team speed (SB maybe) and measure its historical marginal effect on runs created for instance, to attempt to answer that question, but the results would be dubious IMO.

 

In anemic_offense's defense, I interpreted his original post to refer to more qualitative aspects of the game -- things that are difficult or impossible to measure with stats but are apparent when you watch the games. And I would agree with him 100% on that.

[CubinNY]

I interpreted his original post to refer to more qualitative aspects of the game -- things that are difficult or impossible to measure with stats but are apparent when you watch the games. And I would agree with him 100% on that.

 

If said entity has very little measureable effect, how important is it?

 

Edit: Stupid Typos, I curse my fingers.

Edited April 3, 2006 by CubinNY

[badger1679666666]

The point of this thread IS NOT that speed is more important than stats, or other facets of the game. Its' just that it gets SICKENING how some (not all) can discredit its importance because its not next to OBP and HRs in the statbook.

 

Look, I'll be the first to admit OBP and other things are much more important than speed. However as we saw today, our increase in overall team speed will be an asset which will put us over the top in more than a few games.

 

So you admit that speed is not as important as OBP, but then you claim it's sickeninig that people don't think it's as important as OBP?

 

 

Goony, you're putting words in his mouth.

 

Where in his initial post (or any subsequent post) did he claim that it's sickening that people don't thinkit's important as OBP? He merely mentioned that Speed can and will play a huge part in the Cubs team this year - which is accurate.

[Gunned]

And then you have guys like Adam Dunn, with no speed, who look like beached whales in the outfield.

[CubDad4Ever]

Speed, and fielding will increase in importance exponantially in the non steroid era. Money allocation included. They have become undervalued because of The book moneyball and some i repeat some sabermetric viewpoints. Ask Adam Dunn if being able to field is important . He can bring it at the plate. but it kills you to have a Dave Kingman glove in the of .Yeah i lived through that era. The point is scouting oriented teams like Atlanta have seen the value of multi metric evaluations , including a stopwatch. Their success cannot be denied. Coach L