Grace: Sammy PROBABLY used roids

[snoodmonger]

Not a surprising accusation, as they never got along. Didn't see this posted anywhere else.

 

Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-sosa24.html

Edited March 24, 2006 by snoodmonger

[kente777]

Not a surprising accusation, as they never got along. Didn't see this posted anywhere else.

 

Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-sosa24.html

 

Actually, the title of your thread is wrong. Grace never said Sammy used steroids.

 

Ken

[USSoccer]

Not a surprising accusation, as they never got along. Didn't see this posted anywhere else.

 

Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-sosa24.html

 

The title of this thread should be "Clubhouse lawyer piles on speculation train".

[badgercub]

Not a surprising accusation, as they never got along. Didn't see this posted anywhere else.

 

Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-sosa24.html

 

I also liked how Grace said we would have to wait and see about those guys getting into the HOF and he said Palmeiro definitely not because he had tested positive but the others he wasn't sure about, except for Sammy, Grace said he wouldn't put Sosa in. So if you read between the lines he is basically saying he knew Sosa used steroids, is he not?

[rawaction]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

[snoodmonger]

Not a surprising accusation, as they never got along. Didn't see this posted anywhere else.

 

Those are the red-flag guys, the guys that just made the sudden big, big jumps. Guys that showed up at the beginning of their career at 170 pounds and left at the end of their career at 235 pounds. A body can't get that way naturally; it has to be enhanced with something. Sammy's just one of the guys of many that are red-flag guys. Do we have proof? Nope. But you certainly have suspicions.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-sosa24.html

 

Actually, the title of your thread is wrong. Grace never said Sammy used steroids.

 

Ken

 

Not in so many words. But I'm not sure how else we're supposed to interpret Grace's statements. Do you have a more accurate title in mind?

[USSoccer]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

IIRC the only evidence against Sosa was his size and the fact that Manny Alexander was caught with steroids in his glove box. Grace is probably still bitter about his departure from Chicago, the fact that he was always second fiddle to Sammy, and is just piling on the speculation.

[TheDude]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

Correct. Grace is flat out wrong. A guy most certainly can gain 30-40 pounds of bulk if he works at it.

[OleMissCub]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

I dunno man, Sammy with the Rangers looked like around 170. He was pretty scrawny.

[UBlink]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

Correct. Grace is flat out wrong. A guy most certainly can gain 30-40 pounds of bulk if he works at it.

 

And its easy to add 30-40 pounds of non-bulk without working at it. :oops:

[snoodmonger]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

Correct. Grace is flat out wrong. A guy most certainly can gain 30-40 pounds of bulk if he works at it.

 

And its easy to add 30-40 pounds of non-bulk without working at it. :oops:

 

Ahhh, I believe you're referring to the Rod Beck program.

[UBlink]

And its easy to add 30-40 pounds of non-bulk without working at it. :oops:

 

Ahhh, I believe you're referring to the Rod Beck program.

 

Uh, actually it was the UBlink program.

[Soul]

Please be careful when you title a thread that it isn't a lie.

 

Thank you.

[snoodmonger]

Please be careful when you title a thread that it isn't a lie.

 

Thank you.

 

You're welcome, Semantics Police.

 

Edit:

 

For the record, the Sun-Times article title is "Grace says Sosa's bulk had to be artificial"

 

Is that any different than what I wrote. It clearly states Grace accused Sosa of artifcial enhancement.

[CubinNY]

Grace is a moron. First off, he exaggerated Sammy's weight. He probably went from 185 to 225-230. Secondly, that can happen naturally, it usually happens at a much younger age, but it definitely happens all the time. Thirdly, again no proof. Everyone else linked to the HR steroid era has had someone come out and say they witnessed the person using or know for a fact that the person has had possession of steroids.

 

I dunno man, Sammy with the Rangers looked like around 170. He was pretty scrawny.

 

He was also like 20 years old too.

 

There will always be suspicion about Sammy. I don't want to believe he used. But the suspcion is there.

[VicCub]

I still give Sammy the benefit of the doubt. I remember when he was with the White Sox, the Hawk and Wimparoo called him the 'Panther' because of his body type. To me, this was just the body type able to put on bulk and muscle.

 

I remember opening day '94 (the Tuffy 3 HR day) and my friend and I were talking about how good Sammy was gonna be. He said, 'Sammy could steal 50 bases this year.' To which I replied, 'He could hit 50 HRs one of these years.'

 

My point is that plenty of people believed that Sammy would become a big time power hitter.

[Bruno7481]

Take the Cub glasses off for a bit here. I think the likelihood that Sammy used roids is very high. I don't have proof so I'm not going to say that he did. Sosa just completely balooned up starting around 97-98. True, he could put on some of that weight naturally, but how do you explain his head expanding so much. I use to think the head size theory was a joke, but just compare some photos, it is easy to see.

 

Having said all that, Sammy was a great player. Just looking at things objectively though, I think its more likely than not that he was on something.

[Soul]

Please be careful when you title a thread that it isn't a lie.

 

Thank you.

 

You're welcome, Semantics Police.

 

Edit:

 

For the record, the Sun-Times article title is "Grace says Sosa's bulk had to be artificial"

 

Is that any different than what I wrote. It clearly states Grace accused Sosa of artifcial enhancement.

 

Sorry--not trying to single out anyone, this should apply to me as well and everyone else.

 

It's too bad the Sun-Times feels the need to sensationalize their reporting by misrepresenting the article contents in the title line.

 

We don't need to fall into that same trap.

 

This particular article is extremely bad. How can they say Grace is saying Sosa HAD to have used steroids, when the article couches everything in the "speculation" category? That's ridiculous.

 

If the Sun-Times wants to lie to its readers, that's their business. We shouldn't follow suit.

[rocket]

Sosa: Grace probably a huge jealous douche, still.

[fallingpieces]

I have an idea! We can figure out if Sammy, or any other player used steroids. It's a fool proof sure fire method. I've actually seen this work in the past too! It was a very popular technique, and it's something that has been handed down for generations. Okay here's what we do...

 

Step 1. Tie an anvil around the suspected steroid users ankle.

Step 2. Take the user out to the middle of a preferably 20 or so feet deep.

Step 3. Throw the roid raged addict into the lake.

Step 4. Wait to see if he can swim to the surface.

Step 5. If he swims to the surface he's a user, and burn said player at a stake.

 

Like I said this has been used for generations, and my familly has always been able to find the steroid user in the crowd this way.

[Soul]

Sosa: Grace probably a huge jealous douche, still.

 

:lol:

 

Priceless

[USSoccer]

Sosa: Grace probably a huge jealous douche, still.

 

:lol:

 

Priceless

 

Rocket should write for the Onion.

[Fro]

So how did all these guys have veins bulging out of their arms during the steroid era and they suddenly get flabby and go out of the game when they start testing?

 

I can understand Sosa gaining weight naturally, but the guy was jacked up. He looked like a pro wrestler on steroids say around 2001 or so.

 

You don't look like that after a full season of baseball naturally... there's just not enough time to eat right and lift for 2 hours a day, beyond traveling, practice, playing a 3 hour game each day, etc etc.

 

Compare how Sosa looked during his "peak" versus how flabby he was with the Orioles.

[Careless]

Please be careful when you title a thread that it isn't a lie.

 

Thank you.

 

You're welcome, Semantics Police.

 

Edit:

 

For the record, the Sun-Times article title is "Grace says Sosa's bulk had to be artificial"

 

Is that any different than what I wrote. It clearly states Grace accused Sosa of artifcial enhancement.

 

Sorry--not trying to single out anyone, this should apply to me as well and everyone else.

 

It's too bad the Sun-Times feels the need to sensationalize their reporting by misrepresenting the article contents in the title line.

 

We don't need to fall into that same trap.

 

This particular article is extremely bad. How can they say Grace is saying Sosa HAD to have used steroids, when the article couches everything in the "speculation" category? That's ridiculous.

 

If the Sun-Times wants to lie to its readers, that's their business. We shouldn't follow suit.

I don't think it's unreasonable to read between the lines when the quote in question is telling you to read between the lines

[CubinNY]

He looked like a pro wrestler on steroids say around 2001 or so.

 

Sammy's HR totals from 1993-2003

93  33
94  25
95  36
96  40
97  36
98  66 (McGuire chase, Maris and Mantle had a similar chase in 61 with each having career years in HRs)
99  63
00  50
01  64
02  49
03  40

 

To me that looks like a typical career arc for a power hitter. 2001 actually markes the down slope of that arc.