Walker for Soriano straight up?

[Blueheart05]

This is an interesting quote from theWashington Post

 

The Chicago Cubs have a hole at second, where Todd Walker is penciled in, but Soriano's new stance has only slightly changed their interest. The Nationals would take talented right-hander Carlos Zambrano or prized outfield prospect Felix Pie, but the Cubs won't part with either, and one baseball executive characterized the chances Chicago would trade for Soriano as remote -- unless the conflict between the Nationals and the player drives the price down considerably.

 

I don't see the Cubs getting into this mess at all...

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

This is an interesting quote from theWashington Post

 

The Chicago Cubs have a hole at second, where Todd Walker is penciled in, but Soriano's new stance has only slightly changed their interest. The Nationals would take talented right-hander Carlos Zambrano or prized outfield prospect Felix Pie, but the Cubs won't part with either, and one baseball executive characterized the chances Chicago would trade for Soriano as remote -- unless the conflict between the Nationals and the player drives the price down considerably.

 

I don't see the Cubs getting into this mess at all...

 

lmfao. Pie or Z? Give me a freaking break. That writer needs to lay off the crack.

 

Would anyone trade Pie (much less Z) for Wilkerson (and Sledge) - the two players who netted Soriano before this drama? Bowden is border line [expletive].

[Geech]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

I'd rather have Wilkerson than Pierre in CF any day, but you don't deal your top position player prospect for a 29 year old OF coming off a down year who's about to hit FA (with injury concerns).

[Outshined_One]

Pie for Wilkerson and Sledge would give me pause. There are plenty of five tool flameouts that happen in baseball and Pie could well be one of them. However, when one of those five tool guys manages to put it all together...well, yeah.

 

I can probably count the number of guys I'd trade Zambrano straight up for without hesitation on one hand. With hesitation, two hands.

[Andy]

Bowden has stated that he will field offers for Soriano but he isn't going to give him away. I'm guessing dealing for a guy who the Cubs can't get an Orioles player who can't beat out Patterson for a CF spot, at a position they already have filled, would fall under that category.

[srbin84]

I'd rather have Soriano at second than Walker, so if there is a way to get Soriano at somewhat of a discount price now, while getting rid of Walker for a prospect or something, I'm all for it. Soriano makes errors, but he does have pretty decent range and a good arm. He's like Ramriez when he was on the Pirates. The guy just puts up offensive numbers so far superior to the league average at second that I could live with the defensive lapses. Soriano would give us three 30 HR/100 RBI guys and a second 30-40 steal guy to go along with Pierre. Soriano actually has a career 80% success rate on steals, with his best year being last year: 30 out of 32.

[Geech]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

I'd rather have Wilkerson than Pierre in CF any day, but you don't deal your top position player prospect for a 29 year old OF coming off a down year who's about to hit FA (with injury concerns).

 

I don't think Wilkerson's concerns are necessarily greater than Pie's concerns. If Pie doesn't improve his discipline -- and it's extremely doubtful that he will -- he may not ever manage to be a real impact bat. His number one PECOTA comparable is still Corey Patterson.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Pie or Zambrano....rotfloll.

 

If I needed any more reasons to confirm that Bowden is delusional and likely mentally unstable, I just found it.

[RynoRules]

I'd trade him Pie, Walker and Hill for Cordero and Soriano. What do you think, Mr. Bowden? :wink:

[rawaction]

I'd trade him Pie, Walker and Hill for Cordero and Soriano. What do you think, Mr. Bowden? :wink:

 

I wouldn't. Cordero's a great closer, but far from a need right now. The Cubs would be getting ripped off, simply because Soriano isn't that much better than Walker (if at all), and will likely walk after this year. So, it's Pie and Hill for a closer....that's not a good deal.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

I'd rather have Wilkerson than Pierre in CF any day, but you don't deal your top position player prospect for a 29 year old OF coming off a down year who's about to hit FA (with injury concerns).

 

I don't think Wilkerson's concerns are necessarily greater than Pie's concerns. If Pie doesn't improve his discipline -- and it's extremely doubtful that he will -- he may not ever manage to be a real impact bat. His number one PECOTA comparable is still Corey Patterson.

 

Pie had one injury and is making under 500k per season with no ML service time. Wilkerson (3+ years service time) is making 4M this season after avoiding arbitration, and that's going to go up.

 

There are always going to be doubts about a prospect. That's why they're prospects and not everyday ML starters. You can trade the unproven commodity for a proven one, it just costs more. I'd rather have guys like Murton and Pie taking up 2/3 of the OF with a ton of cash to burn on a stud to go with Ramirez and Lee. That's what cheap talent allows you to do - afford that big impact player. Burning cash on good players (Wilkerson) and a bunch of crappy vets (see Neifi, Rusch, etc) just wastes payroll. I'd rather have one or two studs and cheap young talent around them.

 

I'm never big on Pie until I see him play. Then I get excited again. I look at the K/BB number and cool down. Then I see him again. Maybe I'm too emotionally attached to what he can become.

 

I think a big part of Pie's problem is the language barrier (he's requested extra English classes). That should help his "rawness." Plate discipline may not be teachable. He may just be one of those guys with a low OBP and good SLG. It's just a tradeoff.

[Danny82]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

Really?

 

From Ken Rosenthal on FoxSports.com:

 

A rival general manager says of Cubs center-field prospect Felix Pie: "He's going to be a superstar. He's really fun to watch. He's just got electric tools. He can fly. He's got power. He plays the heck out of center field. He just needs some experience."

[CubinNY]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

Really?

 

From Ken Rosenthal on FoxSports.com:

 

A rival general manager says of Cubs center-field prospect Felix Pie: "He's going to be a superstar. He's really fun to watch. He's just got electric tools. He can fly. He's got power. He plays the heck out of center field. He just needs some experience."

 

So, becuase Ken Rosenthal prints an annonymous qoute that makes Pie a superstar in the making?

 

Pie scares me. I think this season we will see just how good a prospect he is. Right now he has had about 1/2 of a good season above A ball. He was terrible this winter.

 

They have a saying where Pie is from, "you don't walk off the island". I hope he doesn't listen.

[sonofsamiam]

Soriano's clearly in decline, and his offense has been bloated by playing at Arlington.

 

His Road OPS was .038 worse than NEIFI's last year. That's all that really needs to be said.

[Danny82]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

Really?

 

From Ken Rosenthal on FoxSports.com:

 

A rival general manager says of Cubs center-field prospect Felix Pie: "He's going to be a superstar. He's really fun to watch. He's just got electric tools. He can fly. He's got power. He plays the heck out of center field. He just needs some experience."

 

So, becuase Ken Rosenthal prints an annonymous qoute that makes Pie a superstar in the making?

 

I don't see where I said he was a superstar in the making.

 

I was simply pointing to a quote from an NL GM that suggests that Pie is more than just a "big fish in a small pond."

[CubinNY]

I might be willing to do Pie for Wilkerson straight up, myself. Pie isn't even that great of a prospect, he's just a big fish in a small pond.

 

Really?

 

From Ken Rosenthal on FoxSports.com:

 

A rival general manager says of Cubs center-field prospect Felix Pie: "He's going to be a superstar. He's really fun to watch. He's just got electric tools. He can fly. He's got power. He plays the heck out of center field. He just needs some experience."

 

So, becuase Ken Rosenthal prints an annonymous qoute that makes Pie a superstar in the making?

 

I don't see where I said he was a superstar in the making.

 

I was simply pointing to a quote from an NL GM that suggests that Pie is more than just a "big fish in a small pond."

 

Really?

 

I thought you were qouting an article in which Rosenthall reports that a NL GM said that Pie is "going to be a superstar".

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Danny82]

Why take that condescending, smart-alec tone?

 

I was obviously responding to Geech's statement that Pie "wasn't that great of a prospect" by showing a statement from somebody in major league baseball that thought otherwise.

[CubinNY]

Why take that condescending, smart-alec tone?

 

I was obviously responding to Geech's statement that Pie "wasn't that great of a prospect" by showing a statement from somebody in major league baseball that thought otherwise.

 

Sorry. I am not trying to be a smart alec. I was judging your post by what you put in it. You never said MLB people think otherwise. You printed a Rosenthal qoute without commenting yourself.

 

Do you think Pie is a superstar in the making?

 

I think Pie is a good prospect who needs to show better performance before we heap praise on him. I'm not the toolsy sort of guy. Pie looks good in a baseball uniform, but until he can develop some plate discipline or hit like Vlade I think it is a little premature to put that kind of a tag on the kid. He is young and his game needs lots of work.

 

BA ranked him 27 this year. We will see what he can do.

[Danny82]

I really don't know.

 

I know he has tools out of his ears, but that k/bb rate does worry me some.

 

However, each time I have seen him play this spring, I have come away very impressed...especially with his ability to hit the ball to the opposite field with power. I am going to the game tomorrow, so am hoping I can see him in person. I haven't seen him play in person since he was in low A.

[KaiserCesar]

Walker for Soriano doesn't make sense since Walker's defense seems to be the main reason JH wants to trade him. Soriano is only a marginal improvement offensively at best and looking at his road splits is troubling. He just offers more speed, more HR power (which could dropoff significantly outside of Arlington) at the expense of the worst 2B defense in the majors and a whole lot of patience which is what this team really needs to improve.

 

how is joe morgan not in your 'announcers to punch'?

 

Fixed. I don't know how I missed him the first time making it.

[Backtobanks]

Walker for Soriano doesn't make sense since Walker's defense seems to be the main reason JH wants to trade him. Soriano is only a marginal improvement offensively at best and looking at his road splits is troubling. He just offers more speed, more HR power (which could dropoff significantly outside of Arlington) at the expense of the worst 2B defense in the majors and a whole lot of patience which is what this team really needs to improve.

 

People can critcize Soriano for lots of reasons (money, defense, attitude, etc.), but to say that Soriano is only a "marginal improvement offensively" over Walker is ridiculous. I like Walker, but he has to fight for a starting job every year while Soriano is making All-Star teams. Offensively, Soriano is Jeff Kent with speed.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Walker for Soriano doesn't make sense since Walker's defense seems to be the main reason JH wants to trade him. Soriano is only a marginal improvement offensively at best and looking at his road splits is troubling. He just offers more speed, more HR power (which could dropoff significantly outside of Arlington) at the expense of the worst 2B defense in the majors and a whole lot of patience which is what this team really needs to improve.

 

People can critcize Soriano for lots of reasons (money, defense, attitude, etc.), but to say that Soriano is only a "marginal improvement offensively" over Walker is ridiculous. I like Walker, but he has to fight for a starting job every year while Soriano is making All-Star teams. Offensively, Soriano is Jeff Kent with speed.

 

Soriano

2004: 98 OPS+

2005: 110 OPS+

 

 

Walker

2004: 105 OPS+

2005: 115 OPS+

 

Which one is Walker, and which one is Soriano? Highlight to find out

[Geech]

It looks like he's right. Claiming Soriano is a marginal improvement over Todd is completely wrong; Todd is actually a marginal improvement over Soriano.

[Derwood]

NSFW but hilarious