Good Miles article: Decline of African Americans in baseball

[wade]

This one is on the decline of the number of african-americans playing baseball in MLB since the '70's.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=164389

 

I think this is a good article and there are good quotes from Baker as well.

[ThePenguin11]

This one is on the decline of the number of african-americans playing baseball in MLB since the '70's.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=164389

 

I think this is a good article and there are good quotes from Baker as well.

 

It's like an oxymoron. Good Miles article, good Baker quotes. Usually Bruce's best articles are the ones where Johnnie B. says or does something criminally stupid.

 

In all seriousness, that was a teriffic article from Bruce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

((I smell Pulitzer.))

Edited March 10, 2006 by ThePenguin11

[cl smooth]

• Fear by some scouts to go into inner cities to recruit or watch players.

 

fear isn't stopping scouts from basketball and football teams from going into the inner cities and watching kids play. good article, but i'm not feeling that quote too much.

 

i'm surprised by the cost of playing baseball...i was in a little league team in '94 and it didn't cost THAT much. maybe $250-$300 at the most. all we had to do was show up for practice with a bat, glove, cleats and some flexible clothing. the jerseys and gameday clothing were part of the fee you paid at the begining of the season. how much is it to play baseball on a high school or college team? i'm guessing it'll be in the $1000-$2000 range?

[Bruce Miles]

Thanks very much. I put a lot of work into it. Marquiss Grissom and Derrek Lee were very good to talk with. Johnnie B. Baker also was very gracious.

 

On to Tucson this morning!

[badgercub]

• Fear by some scouts to go into inner cities to recruit or watch players.

 

fear isn't stopping scouts from basketball and football teams from going into the inner cities and watching kids play. good article, but i'm not feeling that quote too much.

 

i'm surprised by the cost of playing baseball...i was in a little league team in '94 and it didn't cost THAT much. maybe $250-$300 at the most. all we had to do was show up for practice with a bat, glove, cleats and some flexible clothing. the jerseys and gameday clothing were part of the fee you paid at the begining of the season. how much is it to play baseball on a high school or college team? i'm guessing it'll be in the $1000-$2000 range?

 

My high school team all you needed to buy were cleats and a glove, but that was in the late 80's.

[goonys evil twin]

• Fear by some scouts to go into inner cities to recruit or watch players.

 

fear isn't stopping scouts from basketball and football teams from going into the inner cities and watching kids play. good article, but i'm not feeling that quote too much.

 

i'm surprised by the cost of playing baseball...i was in a little league team in '94 and it didn't cost THAT much. maybe $250-$300 at the most. all we had to do was show up for practice with a bat, glove, cleats and some flexible clothing. the jerseys and gameday clothing were part of the fee you paid at the begining of the season. how much is it to play baseball on a high school or college team? i'm guessing it'll be in the $1000-$2000 range?

 

My high school team all you needed to buy were cleats and a glove, but that was in the late 80's.

 

Personally I think a lot of this is the difference between "have to buy" and "want to buy". In Dusty's quote he referred to the kids all wanting bat bags so they could fit in. You don't have to go all out on baseball equipment. Teams don't need more than 2 or 3 bats and 5 helmets. There's no reason for little league or even high school players to all have their own bat. I went to a relatively well-off school and we had maybe 4 guys with their own bats. I just grabbed one of theirs or the school's.

[Shawon12]

Thanks very much. I put a lot of work into it. Marquiss Grissom and Derrek Lee were very good to talk with. Johnnie B. Baker also was very gracious.

 

On to Tucson this morning!

 

Great article, Bruce.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

• Fear by some scouts to go into inner cities to recruit or watch players.

 

fear isn't stopping scouts from basketball and football teams from going into the inner cities and watching kids play. good article, but i'm not feeling that quote too much.

 

i'm surprised by the cost of playing baseball...i was in a little league team in '94 and it didn't cost THAT much. maybe $250-$300 at the most. all we had to do was show up for practice with a bat, glove, cleats and some flexible clothing. the jerseys and gameday clothing were part of the fee you paid at the begining of the season. how much is it to play baseball on a high school or college team? i'm guessing it'll be in the $1000-$2000 range?

 

My high school team all you needed to buy were cleats and a glove, but that was in the late 80's.

 

Did you have to wear helmets back then? :lol:

[SouthSideRyan]

• Fear by some scouts to go into inner cities to recruit or watch players.

 

fear isn't stopping scouts from basketball and football teams from going into the inner cities and watching kids play. good article, but i'm not feeling that quote too much.

 

i'm surprised by the cost of playing baseball...i was in a little league team in '94 and it didn't cost THAT much. maybe $250-$300 at the most. all we had to do was show up for practice with a bat, glove, cleats and some flexible clothing. the jerseys and gameday clothing were part of the fee you paid at the begining of the season. how much is it to play baseball on a high school or college team? i'm guessing it'll be in the $1000-$2000 range?

 

My high school team all you needed to buy were cleats and a glove, but that was in the late 80's.

 

Personally I think a lot of this is the difference between "have to buy" and "want to buy". In Dusty's quote he referred to the kids all wanting bat bags so they could fit in. You don't have to go all out on baseball equipment. Teams don't need more than 2 or 3 bats and 5 helmets. There's no reason for little league or even high school players to all have their own bat. I went to a relatively well-off school and we had maybe 4 guys with their own bats. I just grabbed one of theirs or the school's.

 

A lot of people are protective of their bats, and don't like other people using them, especially when some people violently throw the bat aside after swinging. My guess on expenses would be on the traveling teams that one must play on to have shot at being recognized by a scout, but basketball is the same way, so I don't see the difference.

[snoodmonger]

That was a good article. Great quotes by Baker and Grissom.

 

I do think part of the problem is baseball not promoting it's players so much. Kids turn on TV and see LeBron and Kobe or Michael Vick, and they want to be like them. Not so much for the big baseball stars.

 

And while its not baseball's fault, the same thing applies to advertising. Those guys [the hoops/football stars] get flashed in our faces every ten seconds, and they are invariably made to look tough, cool, etc. But I can't think of a baseball player--particularly a black one--who appears in a ton of ads. Maybe Jeter?

 

And even when they do, the nature of the ads in which baseball players appear is always much different. Commercials that involve baseball players tend to use humor or appeal to tradition. As a result, they seem softer and, frankly, not nearly as appealing as commercials where Kobe's lifting weights to some rap music or LeBron is throwing down dunks on a court in Rucker.

 

I can see why a young, urban black wouldn't find baseball and its star players as appealing. It's not a matter of them ignoring the sport. It's more like the sport doesn't even try to appeal to them.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bruce Miles's article today on African Americans in baseball is excellent!

 

Link.

 

Since I teach in an all African-American school, I can attest to the fact that black students aren't interested in baseball. One of my students plays on an organized team. Most cannot name very many major leaguers, but they could write pages on basketball or football.

 

As a fan of baseball, I would love to see it have a resugence in the African American community.

[OleMissCub]

Bruce Miles's article today on African Americans in baseball is excellent!

 

Link.

 

Since I teach in an all African-American school, I can attest to the fact that black students aren't interested in baseball. One of my students plays on an organized team. Most cannot name very many major leaguers, but they could write pages on basketball or football.

 

As a fan of baseball, I would love to see it have a resugence in the African American community.

 

Absolutely, I would too. Indeed the problems are numerous as to why there is the decline. He lists several good ones. However, I will take exception with the "lack of suitable facilities in the inner city" argument. Many kids who grew up in New York City or Chicago or other big cities played baseball or stickball in the streets, etc. Clearly, the Caribbeans and South Americans don't have good facilities (they do have open land, I suppose).

 

That being said, the decline of the black ballplayer does sadden me. My high school had about half black/half white. We won the 5A state championship year and year out, so we had a really good program. However, during our season we would play alot of the inner city 99% black public schools in Jackson. We would mercy-rule them every game we played, but it had little to do with talent. It had mostly to do with understanding and training. Most of these guys did not grow up playing baseball and as most of us know, alot of baseball is intuitive and the rules are so very important. So many of these guys were so fast and strong, they could crush the ball or their pitchers could throw the hell out of the ball. Problem was they weren't raised to play ball and so their talent didn't outweigh their lack of training in the game.

 

It's sad indeed and I wish something could change.

[rawaction]

I think the biggest issue is that baseball isn't exciting enough. You only get to hit every 2-3 innings. You don't get much action in the field defensively, unless you play 1B.

 

I love baseball, but any of my friends who don't like it say it's because it's too boring. If it's tough to watch on TV, it's gonna be tough to play for a kid.

[snoodmonger]

This article is already being discussed here.

 

viewtopic.php?t=29571

 

Maybe these threads should get merged under this thread's more informative heading.

[dalgreen]

Isn't this an extension of the decline of baseball's popularity, in general?

[dalgreen]

I think the biggest issue is that baseball isn't exciting enough. You only get to hit every 2-3 innings. You don't get much action in the field defensively, unless you play 1B.

 

I love baseball, but any of my friends who don't like it say it's because it's too boring. If it's tough to watch on TV, it's gonna be tough to play for a kid.

 

Yeah, but it's no less exciting than what it was fifty or sixty years ago. I think baseball has done a poor job marketing itself, not only to black youth but all youth.

[OleMissCub]

I think the biggest issue is that baseball isn't exciting enough. You only get to hit every 2-3 innings. You don't get much action in the field defensively, unless you play 1B.

 

I love baseball, but any of my friends who don't like it say it's because it's too boring. If it's tough to watch on TV, it's gonna be tough to play for a kid.

 

Yeah, but it's no less exciting than what it was fifty or sixty years ago. I think baseball has done a poor job marketing itself, not only to black youth but all youth.

 

I dunno, from the point of view of someone who has coached middle school and high school baseball, their attention spans and the shortness thereof, play a massive part in their patience with the game.

[frostwyrm]

I can't see baseball ever being compatible with the hip-hop generation. The pace of the sport is wrong, and the whole vibe is wrong. Also, baseball is getting to be perceived as a white man's sport, and lots of black kids don't want to be associated with any pop-cultural thing that is perceived as being too white, and sports definitely falls under the umbrella of pop culture.

[anemic offense]

I think the biggest issue is that baseball isn't exciting enough. You only get to hit every 2-3 innings. You don't get much action in the field defensively, unless you play 1B.

 

I love baseball, but any of my friends who don't like it say it's because it's too boring. If it's tough to watch on TV, it's gonna be tough to play for a kid.

 

I don't think so. When a relatively high percentage of African Americans hail from the inner city, its not only cheaper, but much more easy to grab a ball and head to the local basketball court than it is to find the field, equipment, and friends necessary to play baseball. For many its just not feasible.

 

IMO, the landscape of baseball today has been many decades in the making. Once a few of the youth turn to basketball instead of baseball, then many of their friends will as well. As these kids get older, some become stars either on the collegiate level or in the pros. This influences more and more youths to turn to basketball and the cycle continues.

 

However I think the bigger question is, is this a problem? As far a MLB is concerned it might, although I'm not sure how it adversley affects the game. However in reality I'd guess that this isn't necessarily a problem at all. If it's simply a byproduct of kids playing the sport they chose to play than its nothing more than a product of choice. But if MLB and baseball enthusiasts in general find there are a lot of kids who WANT to play baseball but can't because of factors outside their control, than I think there is a problem. The only thing is I haven't seen a lot of data to suggest the latter is the problem which exists. It's kind of funny because there aren't NEARLY as many white players in most sports as there used to be, but that's not being viewed as a problem (even though the numbers are relativly skewed away from the population percentages its not even funny). So why's this a problem? It's going to take more than a few articles to convince me that it is (not trying to sound incensitive).

[rawaction]

I think the biggest issue is that baseball isn't exciting enough. You only get to hit every 2-3 innings. You don't get much action in the field defensively, unless you play 1B.

 

I love baseball, but any of my friends who don't like it say it's because it's too boring. If it's tough to watch on TV, it's gonna be tough to play for a kid.

 

Yeah, but it's no less exciting than what it was fifty or sixty years ago. I think baseball has done a poor job marketing itself, not only to black youth but all youth.

 

I agree with your bottom line. But I think a lot had to do with the leagues. 60 years ago, the NBA was in its first year. 50 years ago, it was still a struggling league with very few stars and little fanfare. The NFL was more established, but the only way to become a player is to move up from being a college player. 50-60 years ago, there was still segregation, unequal schooling and little opportunity for a black kid to go to college and play football. While the MLB wasn't allowing blacks, there were still professional leagues that were much easier to get into. Baseball was being broadcasted and it was more noticeable compared to the otehr professional sports.

[frostwyrm]

I don't buy the arguments about expense being a problem. Black players comprised 27% of MLB in 1975. Was there no poverty in America in 1975? Plenty of Latin kids from undeveloped countries are learning baseball and poverty in those countries is way worse than in America.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't buy the arguments about expense being a problem. Black players comprised 27% of MLB in 1975. Was there no poverty in America in 1975? Plenty of Latin kids from undeveloped countries are learning baseball and poverty in those countries is way worse than in America.

 

I think it is the perception of cost, not necessarily the cost itself. People think they all need their own bat and the most expensive model. But then again, a lot of kids who get into basketball think they need the new $200 shoe.

[muskie]

I don't buy the arguments about expense being a problem. Black players comprised 27% of MLB in 1975. Was there no poverty in America in 1975? Plenty of Latin kids from undeveloped countries are learning baseball and poverty in those countries is way worse than in America.

 

1) Poor people in America have less disposable income now than in 1975, and schools had more money to spend on nonessential activities in 1975 than they do now.

 

2) In Latin America there's both poverty and as a result of that poverty a more permissive climate (for example: if there is no glass in the windows, no one will be chased from the streets because they might break a window, and if life expectancy for street kids is very short, no one will raise a fuss about not having helmets).

[Connor McConnor]

Isn't this an extension of the decline of baseball's popularity, in general?

 

Indeed. If kids are not playing the game....they certainly are not watching it either. Although the article is talking about black players.....less kids in general are playing for the reasons that Baker mentioned. Also....baseball is a very difficult sport....especially for the younger ages.....the kids are afraid of getting hit by the ball....and its very demoralizing to fail in such a "personal" way....by striking out or dropping a ball. Its much less obvious in a team sport where things are moving along. Youth games tend to be incredibly boring....most kids walk or strikeout.....and fielding is usually poor. Its just hard to do when you are young. Add to that overzealous jock/dad/coaches who can be moronic.....and its not very appealing to a kid. More fun to play a video game, shoot hoops, or skateboard. Or do nothing.

 

Baseball is going to have serious fanbase trouble in about 20 years. It still living off the golden ages of the 60-70s (us)...but when we are gone....they are not going to have enough fans to pay for the big salaries. Baseball is in going to be hurting big time. Maybe enough to kill it as a huge spectator sport.

[frostwyrm]

I don't buy the arguments about expense being a problem. Black players comprised 27% of MLB in 1975. Was there no poverty in America in 1975? Plenty of Latin kids from undeveloped countries are learning baseball and poverty in those countries is way worse than in America.

 

1) Poor people in America have less disposable income now than in 1975, and schools had more money to spend on nonessential activities in 1975 than they do now.

 

2) In Latin America there's both poverty and as a result of that poverty a more permissive climate (for example: if there is no glass in the windows, no one will be chased from the streets because they might break a window, and if life expectancy for street kids is very short, no one will raise a fuss about not having helmets).

 

I'm still not buying it. The percentage of black MLB players is 37% of what it was in 1975. Disposable income hasn't declined that much. The basic problem is that most black kids simply don't like baseball all that much anymore.