Rumor - Murton for Soriano?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If you think saying that someone is sensitive is a personal attack ... well, you're too sensitive.

 

How did I know that was coming? I vote we let this thread die. Who's with me?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I definitely think this rumor is dead; whether the thread dies, that's a different story.

[BigbadB]

If you think saying that someone is sensitive is a personal attack ... well, you're too sensitive.

 

Please explain how a debate about whether Soriano is a good fit for this club or not has anything to do with how sensitive someone is?

 

How does pointing out someone's sensitivity level going to strengthen your position on a debate about the plus's and minus's of Alfonzo Soriano?

 

NSBB member guidelines clearly explains that your posts should attack the argument and not the poster. How does stating someone is too sensitive attack the argument and not the poster?

 

Please enlighten me.

 

Thanks!

[Gunned]

 

Please enlighten me.

 

Thanks!

 

Nah, I think I'll just go back to Desipio. Much more fun there.

[BigbadB]

Okey doke!

[NCCubFan]

It seems the Nationals could be prepared to play hard ball with Soriano. I've heard rumblings that if he refuses to play the outfield, the Nationals may decide to put him on the suspended list. I'm sure the PA would then file a grievance. This is definitely a story worth following.

I don't think the PA would have a legitimate grievance (not that it would necessarily stop them from trying). To the best of my knowledge, Soriano's contract doesn't guarantee him playing a specific position. That means it is well within Robinson's rights to assign Soriano to play LF (he doesn't need Soriano's permission to do that). If Soriano refuses he is in breach of contract and the team would be entitled to suspend him, if not outright terminate his contract. I hope the Nats do play hardball on this one.

[Neuby]

I think Bowden will sell Soranio soon for pennies on the dollar I hope Hendry can swoop and get him cheap.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Nothing is likely to happen for the next 2-3 weeks while Sori is playing in the WBC. After that, things likely get interesting.

 

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

[CubinNY]

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

 

And wants to go back to the AL after this season.

 

Bowden may give Soriano away for pennies on the dollar tallent wise, but he will still cost @10mill for the privilege of him agreeing to play 2nd base poorly.

[Neuby]

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

 

And wants to go back to the AL after this season.

 

Bowden may give Soriano away for pennies on the dollar tallent wise, but he will still cost @10mill for the privilege of him agreeing to play 2nd base poorly.

 

I'll take his crappy defense at second base if the cost playwise is cheap enough. The Cubs lineup really needs another bat and his 30 homers 100 rbi along with 30 steals will help a lot.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

 

And wants to go back to the AL after this season.

 

Bowden may give Soriano away for pennies on the dollar tallent wise, but he will still cost @10mill for the privilege of him agreeing to play 2nd base poorly.

 

From what Cedeno has shown so far during ST, Soriano would commit less errors at 2B than Ronny would at SS. Our MIF defense isn't that strong, whatever Baker and Hendry may claim.

[katway]

The Nats look pretty bad giving up Wilkerson when they knew Soriano always balked at playing the outfield. Typical Bowden move.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2352752

 

"They have three weeks to fix it," Soriano told The Washington Post before leaving town. He told the paper he didn't know what would happen if the issue remains unresolved.

 

A two-hour meeting with team officials last week failed to produce a breakthrough, and the parties essentially agreed to put off the problem.

 

"We've been pretty clear about being unclear," general manager Jim Bowden said Feb. 23.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

 

And wants to go back to the AL after this season.

 

Bowden may give Soriano away for pennies on the dollar tallent wise, but he will still cost @10mill for the privilege of him agreeing to play 2nd base poorly.

 

From what Cedeno has shown so far during ST, Soriano would commit less errors at 2B than Ronny would at SS. Our MIF defense isn't that strong, whatever Baker and Hendry may claim.

 

The difference being that Cedeno enter 2006 as the starting SS in his career with the Cubs, and HAS A CHANCE to improve, whereas Soriano is entering his what....5th FULL yr (7th overall) and has NO ambition of ever improving his defense. Cedeno's defense thus far...is defensable, whereas Soriano defense is NOT. So, no I don't want the Sammy Sosa of the infield (all offense, and NO defense) on the Cubs. Simply because the Cubs pitchers are ALREADY paranoid at the defense (hence Hendry's mantra of getting guys who can CATCH the ball, this offseason), and the Cubs don't need to add to that paranoia.

 

The Cubs DON'T need to buy into the fact that Soriano has a "recognizable name."

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The most recent reports have Soriano still telling people that he is not moving to the outfield.

 

And wants to go back to the AL after this season.

 

Bowden may give Soriano away for pennies on the dollar tallent wise, but he will still cost @10mill for the privilege of him agreeing to play 2nd base poorly.

 

From what Cedeno has shown so far during ST, Soriano would commit less errors at 2B than Ronny would at SS. Our MIF defense isn't that strong, whatever Baker and Hendry may claim.

 

From what Jones has shown so far during ST, he's the best player of all time at hitting southpaws. Cedeno is a good defender, a couple spring training games, ones that we haven't even seen too, don't change that one bit.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vidro played his first ST game without incident. He says he feels fine.

 

Link.

 

If Vidro looks completely healed over the next three weeks, the intrigue with Soriano will intensify.

[YearofDaCubs]

Bowden makes the trade and doesn't ask Soriano if him playing in the OF would be a problem? Pretty dumb move. At the same time I don't like the approach Soriano is taking either. If it was up to me I would leave him on the bench until he decides to be a team player and take one for the team by playing the OF. I would be dissapointed if we ended up with a me-first player like Soriano.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bowden makes the trade and doesn't ask Soriano if him playing in the OF would be a problem? Pretty dumb move. At the same time I don't like the approach Soriano is taking either. If it was up to me I would leave him on the bench until he decides to be a team player and take one for the team by playing the OF. I would be dissapointed if we ended up with a me-first player like Soriano.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around here, that's certain.

 

Soriano is not handling this in the proper way. There's no question his defense is poor at second. If he could move to left, play it well, and put up decent numbers, he might increase his value going toward his free agency year. As it is, he's making himself look very selfish and many teams could be wary about signing him to a long term deal. Even a team that signs him to play second could want him to move as he gets older. This is telling teams that if they sign him, they should expect a problem if they ever want to move him. Sori's value is plummetting.

 

Bowden was an idiot for not checking with Soriano's representatives before making the deal. He should have gotten the Rangers' permission to speak with him about changing positions before making the deal. Considering the talent they gave up to get him, it's inexcusable that this wasn't done. Soriano has said for years he wouldn't switch positions. I don't see how this caught Bowden off guard.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Bowden makes the trade and doesn't ask Soriano if him playing in the OF would be a problem? Pretty dumb move. At the same time I don't like the approach Soriano is taking either. If it was up to me I would leave him on the bench until he decides to be a team player and take one for the team by playing the OF. I would be dissapointed if we ended up with a me-first player like Soriano.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around here, that's certain.

 

Soriano is not handling this in the proper way. There's no question his defense is poor at second. If he could move to left, play it well, and put up decent numbers, he might increase his value going toward his free agency year. As it is, he's making himself look very selfish and many teams could be wary about signing him to a long term deal. Even a team that signs him to play second could want him to move as he gets older. This is telling teams that if they sign him, they should expect a problem if they ever want to move him. Sori's value is plummetting.

 

Bowden was an idiot for not checking with Soriano's representatives before making the deal. He should have gotten the Rangers' permission to speak with him about changing positions before making the deal. Considering the talent they gave up to get him, it's inexcusable that this wasn't done. Soriano has said for years he wouldn't switch positions. I don't see how this caught Bowden off guard.

 

That's just it. Soriano's value plummets if he moves to the OF. Shaky OF D and ok offensive skills (for a LF) doesn't bring in the big FA money.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bowden makes the trade and doesn't ask Soriano if him playing in the OF would be a problem? Pretty dumb move. At the same time I don't like the approach Soriano is taking either. If it was up to me I would leave him on the bench until he decides to be a team player and take one for the team by playing the OF. I would be dissapointed if we ended up with a me-first player like Soriano.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around here, that's certain.

 

Soriano is not handling this in the proper way. There's no question his defense is poor at second. If he could move to left, play it well, and put up decent numbers, he might increase his value going toward his free agency year. As it is, he's making himself look very selfish and many teams could be wary about signing him to a long term deal. Even a team that signs him to play second could want him to move as he gets older. This is telling teams that if they sign him, they should expect a problem if they ever want to move him. Sori's value is plummetting.

 

Bowden was an idiot for not checking with Soriano's representatives before making the deal. He should have gotten the Rangers' permission to speak with him about changing positions before making the deal. Considering the talent they gave up to get him, it's inexcusable that this wasn't done. Soriano has said for years he wouldn't switch positions. I don't see how this caught Bowden off guard.

 

That's just it. Soriano's value plummets if he moves to the OF. Shaky OF D and ok offensive skills (for a LF) doesn't bring in the big FA money.

 

But if he is able to play decent OF defense and put up a 30/30 season, he'd be more valuable than a 30/30 2b who can't field at all and refuses to move. Now if he can't play decent OF defense either, you have a point.

 

Teams would still pay for a 30/30 OF.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Bowden makes the trade and doesn't ask Soriano if him playing in the OF would be a problem? Pretty dumb move. At the same time I don't like the approach Soriano is taking either. If it was up to me I would leave him on the bench until he decides to be a team player and take one for the team by playing the OF. I would be dissapointed if we ended up with a me-first player like Soriano.

 

There's plenty of blame to go around here, that's certain.

 

Soriano is not handling this in the proper way. There's no question his defense is poor at second. If he could move to left, play it well, and put up decent numbers, he might increase his value going toward his free agency year. As it is, he's making himself look very selfish and many teams could be wary about signing him to a long term deal. Even a team that signs him to play second could want him to move as he gets older. This is telling teams that if they sign him, they should expect a problem if they ever want to move him. Sori's value is plummetting.

 

Bowden was an idiot for not checking with Soriano's representatives before making the deal. He should have gotten the Rangers' permission to speak with him about changing positions before making the deal. Considering the talent they gave up to get him, it's inexcusable that this wasn't done. Soriano has said for years he wouldn't switch positions. I don't see how this caught Bowden off guard.

 

That's just it. Soriano's value plummets if he moves to the OF. Shaky OF D and ok offensive skills (for a LF) doesn't bring in the big FA money.

 

But if he is able to play decent OF defense and put up a 30/30 season, he'd be more valuable than a 30/30 2b who can't field at all and refuses to move. Now if he can't play decent OF defense either, you have a point.

 

Teams would still pay for a 30/30 OF.

 

He's not going to play decent OF defense. Supposedly he can't catch a pop fly to save his life and line drives eat him up (word out of Texas). He's probably good for .820 OPS, which isn't too shabby, but in the OF, that's a far more common thing. He'll still make a ton of money, but not near as much as he would as a 2B, in years or $. I can't imagine Soriano is making this fuss just b/c he likes playing 2B.

[Tim]

If Vidro shows he's healthy, I'd think Bowden would look to save face and trade him instead of Soriano. And if he's going to be willing to give Vidro away, I'll take him.

[USSoccer]

If Vidro shows he's healthy, I'd think Bowden would look to save face and trade him instead of Soriano. And if he's going to be willing to give Vidro away, I'll take him.

 

Define "give away".

[Tim]

If Vidro shows he's healthy, I'd think Bowden would look to save face and trade him instead of Soriano. And if he's going to be willing to give Vidro away, I'll take him.

 

Define "give away".

Vidro + half salary for Brownlie + Wellemeyer.

[USSoccer]

If Vidro shows he's healthy, I'd think Bowden would look to save face and trade him instead of Soriano. And if he's going to be willing to give Vidro away, I'll take him.

 

Define "give away".

Vidro + half salary for Brownlie + Wellemeyer.

 

Then we'd have potentially 4 2B on the roster, unless you consider Hairston a CF and Neifi the backup SS.

 

I don't know. 4 years ago Jose Vidro would have been a really great aquisition, a great 2 hole hitter. Now, I don't know. Do we really need another potential injury risk on a club already filled with question marks?

 

Maybe if the Nats picked up all but the equivalent of Walker's salary, and then we flip Walker somewhere...but I just have this feeling that we should sit any bidding on Washington's 2B out.

[Tim]

If Vidro shows he's healthy, I'd think Bowden would look to save face and trade him instead of Soriano. And if he's going to be willing to give Vidro away, I'll take him.

 

Define "give away".

Vidro + half salary for Brownlie + Wellemeyer.

 

Then we'd have potentially 4 2B on the roster, unless you consider Hairston a CF and Neifi the backup SS.

 

I don't know. 4 years ago Jose Vidro would have been a really great aquisition, a great 2 hole hitter. Now, I don't know. Do we really need another potential injury risk on a club already filled with question marks?

 

Maybe if the Nats picked up all but the equivalent of Walker's salary, and then we flip Walker somewhere...but I just have this feeling that we should sit any bidding on Washington's 2B out.

This is kind of assuming that Walker is gone, anyway. In which case, I'd rather take the risk that Vidro stays healthy and returns to his high OBP, medium power days with Montreal than go with Hairston or Neifi at 2B.

 

Given the risks involved, I just wouldn't want to pay heavily in acquisition costs.