Patterson for Soriano - Tribune article

[rork73]

Maybe it's old news for some (sorry if it is), but at rotoworld I just read a new item about the Nats being interested in Soriano. They wrote that the Nats will likely have to deal away Soriano, so to them, it seems like the perfect scenario. (Perhaps a new twist to an old rumor ?)

 

Anyway, Soriano for Patterson sound like a lot of value - although the article below writes about the inclusion of one pitcher in such a deal, which might as well be Williams. That sounds like a very good deal, since both are totally expendable anyway.

 

This is the original article Roto was quoting from:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060108cubs,1,1563826.story?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

Again, sorry if this old stuff - it was new to me.

[Balsa]

I just don't get it. Hendry wants people who can catch the ball, and I thought Soriano was worse than Walker.

 

I just don't think you improve the team with this trade.

 

Also, why is it every year there are players that we 'have to trade'? Doesn't that really limit our trading power?

[RockTheIvy]

If we aren't going to have Walker play 2B, we might as well get Soriano to keep Neifi! away from a starting gig.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Vidro makes a lot more sense in trade than Soriano. Besides the fact he's a significantly better player when healthy, Vidro won't cost as much in trade given his health problems. And after taking Fonzie's arbitration into account, he's not paid any more than Soriano, either. Finally, it's hard to believe Bowden would accede so easily on Soriano after just making the trade. Gotta believe he'd move Vidro first.

 

So, Patterson and Williams for Vidro anyone? We can always use Hairston and Neifi at 2B for when Vidro can't play.

[wilk]

I don't understand why anyone would want Vidro right now... He's just about the same offensive player as Walker recently and not really any better on defense either. He has a bad knee and won't even be ready for the start of the season. Oh... and he's owed $7M in 2006, and another $16M through 2007 and 2008... Edited January 9, 2006 by wilk

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Vidro makes a lot more sense in trade than Soriano. Besides the fact he's a significantly better player when healthy, Vidro won't cost as much in trade given his health problems. And after taking Fonzie's arbitration into account, he's not paid any more than Soriano, either. Finally, it's hard to believe Bowden would accede so easily on Soriano after just making the trade. Gotta believe he'd move Vidro first.

 

So, Patterson and Williams for Vidro anyone? We can always use Hairston and Neifi at 2B for when Vidro can't play.

 

I like Vidro, but his injury problems scare me a little. I'm not to keen on trading Williams in a package for Vidro. I like JW's upside. Wellemeyer & Patterson, & maybe a low level prospect sounds a little better.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I don't understand why anyone would want Vidro right now... He's just about the same offensive player as Walker recently and not really any better on defense either. He has a bad knee and won't even be ready for the start of the season. Oh... and he's owed $7M in 2006, and another $16M through 2007 and 2008...

 

I don't quibble with your argument at all, except to say that when healthy, Vidro is quite a bit better offensive player than Walker. Regardless, I was simply posing that between these three options, and recognizing that the Cubs want Walker gone, period, for better of worse, than which of the three is the least problematic?

 

1. Neifi Perez/Jerry Hairston Jr. split job

2. Fonzie

3. Jose Vidro

 

If Vidro's knee is functional, he's the best of those three options.

[Bull]

I don't understand why anyone would want Vidro right now... He's just about the same offensive player as Walker

 

You answered you own question. Most who would want Vidro would prefer to keep walker. But if you MUST trade Walker, Vidro fits the mold they like as well. That's why Hendry won't.

[wilk]

I don't understand why anyone would want Vidro right now... He's just about the same offensive player as Walker recently and not really any better on defense either. He has a bad knee and won't even be ready for the start of the season. Oh... and he's owed $7M in 2006, and another $16M through 2007 and 2008...

 

I don't quibble with your argument at all, except to say that when healthy, Vidro is quite a bit better offensive player than Walker. Regardless, I was simply posing that between these three options, and recognizing that the Cubs want Walker gone, period, for better of worse, than which of the three is the least problematic?

 

1. Neifi Perez/Jerry Hairston Jr. split job

2. Fonzie

3. Jose Vidro

 

If Vidro's knee is functional, he's the best of those three options.

 

Well, I agree with most of that too. I just think the combination of him making $23M over the next 3 years, being pretty seriously injured and likely not ready for opening day, and the fact that we have a player who is not much worse than a healthy Vidro already on the roster, it doesn't seem like such a smart move. Of course, moving Walker regardless of his alternative isn't so smart either and I understand the context of accepting he's a goner. But you're right, of those 3, Vidro would be my pick. Of course, if we can continue to make Walker an option as well, I'd take him over Vidro at this point. Personally, I'd rather we "overpay" and get a Marcus Giles rather than "underpay" on a risk like Vidro and kick Walker out.

[Mad Ducks]

Vidro is a gold glove caliber 2B when healthy...the only thing that worries me is some sports talk guys hear in DC feel that he may never play again because his knee injury is worse than the Nats are letting on.

[Tim]

Given the rumors about a possible trade with Seattle, when I saw the title I thought it meant Rafael Soriano. Just think about how disappointed I was when I found out it was Fonzy. :(

 

J/K. Patterson for Soriano (either one) would be pretty darned good value right now. I just can't believe Bowden would deal Alfonso for Patterson + pitcher right after dealing Wilk + Sledge to get this guy.

[wilk]

Vidro is a gold glove caliber 2B when healthy...the only thing that worries me is some sports talk guys hear in DC feel that he may never play again because his knee injury is worse than the Nats are letting on.

 

Vidro has never really been GG caliber defense. He hasn't even truly been above average defensively at 2B since 2002. He has slow lateral movement which has been the main Cub complaint with Walker's defense. Vidro has a better stronger arm but not a lot of foot speed and he can't really play in much. I like Vidro, especially a healthy Vidro, but he wouldn't be a move for defense in any way.

[erik316wttn]

If we aren't going to have Walker play 2B, we might as well get Soriano to keep Neifi! away from a starting gig.

 

So then Neifi will start at short as soon as Cedeno has a 1-10 streak.

[erik316wttn]

Given the rumors about a possible trade with Seattle, when I saw the title I thought it meant Rafael Soriano. Just think about how disappointed I was when I found out it was Fonzy. :(

 

J/K. Patterson for Soriano (either one) would be pretty darned good value right now. I just can't believe Bowden would deal Alfonso for Patterson + pitcher right after dealing Wilk + Sledge to get this guy.

 

Soriano isn't a savior, but he's one hell of a lot more than I thought we could get for Patterson straight up. But, if we have to give them Williams, I say pass.

 

I say go for it, if you can get that much in return for him without having to trade Williams.

 

But the only downside is then you HAVE to trade Walker, and you wont get full value for him.

[Guest]

Anyway, Soriano for Patterson sound like a lot of value - although the article below writes about the inclusion of one pitcher in such a deal, which might as well be Williams. That sounds like a very good deal, since both are totally expendable anyway.

I don't view Williams as totally expendable by any stretch of the imagination. Assuming that Wood's delayed surgery will delay his 2006 debut, there's a pretty good chance Jerome willl be the third-best starter on the team on opening day. Williams is still likely to improve while Maddux will probably continue to decline, who knows what we'll get from Hill, and as much as I've defended him in the past even I'm beginning to think Rusch is unlikely to be anything better than an adequate fifth starter/swing man. That being the case, I don't think I'd be too eager to ship out Williams at the first opportunity.

 

Soriano's a good player, but he's a marginal improvement over Walker at best. Throw in the fact he'd be one of the highest-paid players on the team in 2006 and the fact that he's almost certainly a one-year rental and I'm not to keen on trading Patterson and Williams for him.

[Tim]

Anyway, Soriano for Patterson sound like a lot of value - although the article below writes about the inclusion of one pitcher in such a deal, which might as well be Williams. That sounds like a very good deal, since both are totally expendable anyway.

I don't view Williams as totally expendable by any stretch of the imagination. Assuming that Wood's delayed surgery will delay his 2006 debut, there's a pretty good chance Jerome willl be the third-best starter on the team on opening day. Williams is still likely to improve while Maddux will probably continue to decline, who knows what we'll get from Hill, and as much as I've defended him in the past even I'm beginning to think Rusch is unlikely to be anything better than an adequate fifth starter/swing man. That being the case, I don't think I'd be too eager to ship out Williams at the first opportunity.

 

Soriano's a good player, but he's a marginal improvement over Walker at best. Throw in the fact he'd be one of the highest-paid players on the team in 2006 and the fact that he's almost certainly a one-year rental and I'm not to keen on trading Patterson and Williams for him.

Keep in mind that you'd almost certainly be getting a year of Soriano plus two draft picks as FA compensation for whatever you send for him.

[Guest]

Keep in mind that you'd almost certainly be getting a year of Soriano plus two draft picks as FA compensation for whatever you send for him.

I don't find draft pick compensation that much of a consolation in baseball. Given the extreme hit-or-miss nature of the MLB draft I'm not sure two picks justify giving up a few years of a player who will most likely give you cheap production; a bird in the hand and all that.

 

I realize players drafted in the higher rounds pan out more often, but there are still a fair number of players drafted in the first couple rounds that never amount to anything.

[rawaction]

Keep in mind that you'd almost certainly be getting a year of Soriano plus two draft picks as FA compensation for whatever you send for him.

I don't find draft pick compensation that much of a consolation in baseball. Given the extreme hit-or-miss nature of the MLB draft I'm not sure two picks justify giving up a few years of a player who will most likely give you cheap production; a bird in the hand and all that.

 

I realize players drafted in the higher rounds pan out more often, but there are still a fair number of players drafted in the first couple rounds that never amount to anything.

 

Even still, it's compensation that you have to consider. Getting prospects in return is no more of a guarantee.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

On a general level, I have no interest in Soriano. But if all we have to offer is Patterson and a pitcher like Wellemeyer, I might do that deal. If the cost is Patterson and Williams, I'm a little more hesitant.

 

I'd prefer Walker to Soriano, but apparently the Cubs are still intent on dealing the Bayou Basher. Since that is the case, Soriano wouldn't be a horrible replacement.

 

I'm still worried about Soriano's road splits from 2005, though.

[WrigleyinEngland]

If Bowden really is crazy enough to deal fonz for Patterson and even williams, there are alot of GMs who would overpay for soriano. How about swinging him to the Mets for Floyd and Hielman?.

[ThePenguin11]

If it's a foregone conclusion that Walker is leaving, then I think the only real option we have that keeps Cedeno at SS is to get Soriano. Lugo/Cedeno up the middle would be nice, but I think Soriano can be had for less.

[JeffH]

If Bowden really is crazy enough to deal fonz for Patterson and even williams, there are alot of GMs who would overpay for soriano. How about swinging him to the Mets for Floyd and Hielman?.

 

Great idea, except for the fact that Floyd and Heilman are each worth more on their own than Soriano.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Not so sure about that Jeff, some GMs vastly over rate soriano and i'm pretty sure Miniya is one of them. What about if we took some of the Kaz Matsui cash on would they still say no?.

[OleMissCub]

ya guys, it would sure suck to have a guy who averages 34 hr, 95rbi and 30sb batting in our lineup. I realize his downside, low walks, high K's...but we Cubs fans are used to do that...may as well have a player who actually does something when he doesn't K as opposed to those that when they don't K only hit weak grounders or pop ups.

 

I realize his defense is suspect, but we gotta do anything to score runs boys.

[CubinNY]

If Bowden really is crazy enough to deal fonz for Patterson and even williams, there are alot of GMs who would overpay for soriano. How about swinging him to the Mets for Floyd and Hielman?.

 

Great idea, except for the fact that Floyd and Heilman are each worth more on their own than Soriano.

 

Maybe to you, but not to virtually every GM in baseball. There are very few 2nd baseman with the offensive production of Soriono.