Kaplan: Cubs 'Trying Hard' for Tejada, won't budge on Pie

[BigbadB]

Couldn't Baltimore still consider themselves "in the thick of things" if they went ahead and traded Tejada by himself for Manny, Clement and cash?

 

Manny in left, Matos/Markakis in CF, Gibbons in RF, Mora at 3b, Roberts at SS or 2nd, anyone at 2nd?, Javy Lopez at 1st, Ramon Hernandez behind the plate and anyone to DH? Piazza? Conine and Newhan can DH, as could Walter Young. A Patterson deal might still be in the works and Walker might be an option at 2nd along with a few others that might be available in trade.

 

Roberts, Mora, Manny, Gibbons, Lopez, Hernandez is a pretty good line up in the top half.

 

Bedard, Clement, Cabrera, Penn, Dubose/Chen/Loewen/Lopez/Maine is the start of a decent staff.

[CubfaninCA]

If Pie's not going anywhere, then Prior's not either.

[CuseCubFan69]

Couldn't Baltimore still consider themselves "in the thick of things" if they went ahead and traded Tejada by himself for Manny, Clement and cash?

 

Manny in left, Matos/Markakis in CF, Gibbons in RF, Mora at 3b, Roberts at SS or 2nd, anyone at 2nd?, Javy Lopez at 1st, Ramon Hernandez behind the plate and anyone to DH? Piazza? Conine and Newhan can DH, as could Walter Young. A Patterson deal might still be in the works and Walker might be an option at 2nd along with a few others that might be available in trade.

 

Roberts, Mora, Manny, Gibbons, Lopez, Hernandez is a pretty good line up in the top half.

 

Bedard, Clement, Cabrera, Penn, Dubose/Chen/Loewen/Lopez/Maine is the start of a decent staff.

 

I wonder if Baltimore is worried that Manny would demand a trade/raise or be a problem after Tejada wanting out.

[BigbadB]

Hasn't there been a rumor that Manny would accept a trade to Baltimore, which is why Boston has been doing everything they can to create a match.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Hasn't there been a rumor that Manny would accept a trade to Baltimore, which is why Boston has been doing everything they can to create a match.

 

Manny himself said, "I want out of Boston. I love it here, and I love Big Papi. I hate the Red Sox and need to go somewhere else. I could spend my entire career here. I want to go somewhere else in the AL where I am comfortable. I never want to leave this organization, it's what I know. Shampoo is better! I go on first and clean the hair! Conditioner is better! I make the hair silky and smooth!"

[CuseCubFan69]

Hasn't there been a rumor that Manny would accept a trade to Baltimore, which is why Boston has been doing everything they can to create a match.

 

I think Manny has said yes to a deal to Baltimore but that doesn't mean he won't change his mind during the season, especially if they are losing. I don't think Manny has been on a losing team in his career.

[BigbadB]

Hasn't there been a rumor that Manny would accept a trade to Baltimore, which is why Boston has been doing everything they can to create a match.

 

Manny himself said, "I want out of Boston. I love it here, and I love Big Papi. I hate the Red Sox and need to go somewhere else. I could spend my entire career here. I want to go somewhere else in the AL where I am comfortable. I never want to leave this organization, it's what I know. Shampoo is better! I go on first and clean the hair! Conditioner is better! I make the hair silky and smooth!"

 

That's what I thought he said. :D

[Neuby]

This is reminding a lot of the Nomar deal , the papers kept saying we where shipping Clement to the Red Sox even though we where in the thick of a playoff hunt. I don't see Hendry trading Prior with Wood still question mark , If the O's want any combo of prospects at this point do it. If we have to include Williams and Hill hopefully Hendry can still throw his hat in the Weaver hunt .

[BigbadB]

This is reminding a lot of the Nomar deal , the papers kept saying we where shipping Clement to the Red Sox even though we where in the thick of a playoff hunt. I don't see Hendry trading Prior with Wood still question mark , If the O's want any combo of prospects at this point do it. If we have to include Williams and Hill hopefully Hendry can still throw his hat in the Weaver hunt .

 

I don't think it would be even remotely possible to sign Weaver if they took on all of Tejada's contract while sending minimum salary guys like Hill and Williams back to Baltimore.

[CuseCubFan69]

This is reminding a lot of the Nomar deal , the papers kept saying we where shipping Clement to the Red Sox even though we where in the thick of a playoff hunt. I don't see Hendry trading Prior with Wood still question mark , If the O's want any combo of prospects at this point do it. If we have to include Williams and Hill hopefully Hendry can still throw his hat in the Weaver hunt .

 

I don't think it would be even remotely possible to sign Weaver if they took on all of Tejada's contract while sending minimum salary guys like Hill and Williams back to Baltimore.

 

What do you think Weaver is going to get a year? I think he'll average at least 7.5.

[BigbadB]

That sounds about right. Hendry may have to figure out a way to free up salary if he does get Tejada, which means Walker is as good as gone for nothing more than a prospect. And we know Patterson is definitely a goner. Maybe that's one of the reasons Hendry is considering Prior in a deal, because the 4-5m he'll likely make after arby would help free up the salary to add Tejada. I don't agree with it, but where else does Hendry free up salary if it is truly required in order to trade for Tejada?

 

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years. Maddux frees up money for the Cubs next year, but Zambrano will gobble up a bunch of that money. If the Cubs wanted to keep Pierre, there is little else left once you re-up Lee, Aramis and Barrett.

 

Trading for Tejada without giving up Prior will create quite a salary issue in the next year or two.

[CuseCubFan69]

That sounds about right. Hendry may have to figure out a way to free up salary if he does get Tejada, which means Walker is as good as gone for nothing more than a prospect. And we know Patterson is definitely a goner. Maybe that's one of the reasons Hendry is considering Prior in a deal, because the 4-5m he'll likely make after arby would help free up the salary to add Tejada. I don't agree with it, but where else does Hendry free up salary if it is truly required in order to trade for Tejada?

 

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years. Maddux frees up money for the Cubs next year, but Zambrano will gobble up a bunch of that money. If the Cubs wanted to keep Pierre, there is little else left once you re-up Lee, Aramis and Barrett.

 

Trading for Tejada without giving up Prior will create quite a salary issue in the next year or two.

 

Well look at it as the money they should have spent on Giles! :D

 

Tejada + Jones = Giles money

[goonys evil twin]

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years.

 

Not necessarily.

[Neuby]

That sounds about right. Hendry may have to figure out a way to free up salary if he does get Tejada, which means Walker is as good as gone for nothing more than a prospect. And we know Patterson is definitely a goner. Maybe that's one of the reasons Hendry is considering Prior in a deal, because the 4-5m he'll likely make after arby would help free up the salary to add Tejada. I don't agree with it, but where else does Hendry free up salary if it is truly required in order to trade for Tejada?

 

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years. Maddux frees up money for the Cubs next year, but Zambrano will gobble up a bunch of that money. If the Cubs wanted to keep Pierre, there is little else left once you re-up Lee, Aramis and Barrett.

 

Trading for Tejada without giving up Prior will create quite a salary issue in the next year or two.

 

I still don't think the payroll is set at 105 million this season. What are we at now? I am assuming Patterson and Walker are gone.

[Brian]

ESPN News is reporting that Fox Sports is reporting that O's/Phils are beginning talks of swapping Tejada and Abreu... with the intention of playing Tejada at 3rd.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Trading Tejada for just prospects just runs counter to everything the O's have stated.

 

But would still be the smartest thing they could do.

 

Actually trading for Prior would :wink:

 

I don't know about that. Trading for Prior would be great if they could keep him for a very long time. But I could easily see Prior walking away from there, as their owner has not shown a willingness to go top dollar on prime guys, or pitchers for that matter. And, in 2006, the O's plus Prior and minus Tejada still aren't any good. That's probably still true in 2007. So they would most likely have to build a solid team around Prior by 2008 to get any value out of the deal (and have less money to pay for it since Prior would be making a heck of a lot more than all the prospects they would get).

 

The smartest thing would be to somehow get Prior and a few prospects for Tejada, but I don't like to think of that possibility.

 

If they have the possiblity of getting a guy like Prior for 3 years than they should do it. Heck I'd take Prior over the entire Cubs farm system including Hill, Cedeno and Murton. Besides, I'm sure the O's think they will be much better team in 3 years and Prior will want to stay.

 

edit - That said, I think the O's will still suck in 3 years :wink:

Edited January 6, 2006 by CardsFanInChiTown

[nolanwood]

I'm exhausted of all this Tejada talk.....I hope he doesn't come to Chicago.

[Neuby]

ESPN News is reporting that Fox Sports is reporting that O's/Phils are beginning talks of swapping Tejada and Abreu... with the intention of playing Tejada at 3rd.

 

What a waste

[CuseCubFan69]

ESPN News is reporting that Fox Sports is reporting that O's/Phils are beginning talks of swapping Tejada and Abreu... with the intention of playing Tejada at 3rd.

 

What a waste

 

It's like buying a Ferrari and only driving it in the city.

[BigbadB]

That sounds about right. Hendry may have to figure out a way to free up salary if he does get Tejada, which means Walker is as good as gone for nothing more than a prospect. And we know Patterson is definitely a goner. Maybe that's one of the reasons Hendry is considering Prior in a deal, because the 4-5m he'll likely make after arby would help free up the salary to add Tejada. I don't agree with it, but where else does Hendry free up salary if it is truly required in order to trade for Tejada?

 

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years. Maddux frees up money for the Cubs next year, but Zambrano will gobble up a bunch of that money. If the Cubs wanted to keep Pierre, there is little else left once you re-up Lee, Aramis and Barrett.

 

Trading for Tejada without giving up Prior will create quite a salary issue in the next year or two.

 

I still don't think the payroll is set at 105 million this season. What are we at now? I am assuming Patterson and Walker are gone.

 

I'm assuming they will be gone as well. But, even with them gone, I'm not sure how they afford to take on Tejada AND Weaver. That's almost 20m in added salary. Tejada gets 12m in 2006 and Weaver will likely get close to 8m. The problem is that Patterson and Walker are NOT gone yet. It may require that to trade either one of them could possibly require the Cubs to take a bad contract back.

 

I'm actually shocked that the budget is as high as 105m, personally. After the last 2 years of poor performance, I wouldn't have been surprised if the Trib reduced the budget rather than expand it. I'm happy they did, but I'd really be floored if they were allowed to spend even more than 105m when they had so much money available to spend this offseason as it is.

[Neuby]

That sounds about right. Hendry may have to figure out a way to free up salary if he does get Tejada, which means Walker is as good as gone for nothing more than a prospect. And we know Patterson is definitely a goner. Maybe that's one of the reasons Hendry is considering Prior in a deal, because the 4-5m he'll likely make after arby would help free up the salary to add Tejada. I don't agree with it, but where else does Hendry free up salary if it is truly required in order to trade for Tejada?

 

Not to mention the fact that Tejada will be locked in for several years. Maddux frees up money for the Cubs next year, but Zambrano will gobble up a bunch of that money. If the Cubs wanted to keep Pierre, there is little else left once you re-up Lee, Aramis and Barrett.

 

Trading for Tejada without giving up Prior will create quite a salary issue in the next year or two.

 

I still don't think the payroll is set at 105 million this season. What are we at now? I am assuming Patterson and Walker are gone.

 

I'm assuming they will be gone as well. But, even with them gone, I'm not sure how they afford to take on Tejada AND Weaver. That's almost 20m in added salary. Tejada gets 12m in 2006 and Weaver will likely get close to 8m. The problem is that Patterson and Walker are NOT gone yet. It may require that to trade either one of them could possibly require the Cubs to take a bad contract back.

 

I'm actually shocked that the budget is as high as 105m, personally. After the last 2 years of poor performance, I wouldn't have been surprised if the Trib reduced the budget rather than expand it. I'm happy they did, but I'd really be floored if they were allowed to spend even more than 105m when they had so much money available to spend this offseason as it is.

 

 

I just going with a payroll bump with all the new seats, ticket price bumps again, and the small bump the Cubs have always been giving the payroll the last few years.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Unless the deal is ridiculously biased in favor of the Cubs, I do not want to see Prior dealt. I have to disagree with you, Cuse (as well as others who don't see his value)... I think Prior is the real deal and is an Ace, with a capital A. I'm higher on his future than I am with Carlos.

 

So if the Marlins were to ask you to trade either Prior or Z for Cabrera you would trade Z? I'd trade Prior.

 

I'd tell 'em to "shut it"...

I'd tell them to take their pick.

 

I'd tell them to add Willis to Cabrera.

[Neuby]

First off, I'm not the Orioles, I could care less about the Orioles and they can fall off the face of the Earth for all I care.

 

Actually, you (presumably) couldn't care less. Since you were an ass to Voice, I decided to be one to you.

 

The question wasn't whether I could put together a fair trade for both teams. It was whether I would include Pie in a deal for Tejada. Nothing more. Therefore, why are you asking me if I would make that trade if I was Baltimore?

 

Posts like the one you just made where you attempt to insult posters by making assumptions or twisting the argument into something it's not is really not very cool.

 

Because that's how baseball works, Bigbad. This is reality, not a fantasy land. I'm sure a good percentage of the posters here come to talk about things that could legitimately happen. Voice simply stated that you were being relatively unreasonable, and then you lashed out on him.

 

Dream all you want, but when someone calls you out on it, don't act so you surprised -- you put yourself into a position in which you should have been expecting it.

 

Also: "I could care less about the Orioles and they can fall off the face of the Earth for all I care." Who's the one trying to sound cool, here?

 

I probably should have stayed out of it, but when I read this thread your response honestly made me irate.

 

 

Now... on-topic... I really don't think the Cubs should trade away Prior... not for Tejada, at least. I think I've made it well-known in the posts I've talked in that I find Tejada to be overrated, and that I don't think it's an equal trade.

 

If they could swing a deal for Abreu, I think the Cubbies would be much better off. Pierre and Abreu at the top of an order would be mighty impressive, and would give the team an added dose of that speed Hendry coveted.

 

Now, granted, Abreu's contract is a monster... I can see why they would be hesitant to take Bobby.

 

But it really makes me scratch my head... when Hendry says "no way" to Abreu, but is so willing to give Prior away in a Tejada deal?

 

Part of the speculation around the Miggy deals has been that the Cubs want a pitcher in return like Bedard. The Cubs scouts might not have the Phillies pitchers rated as high. Abreus contract is terrible. Miggy is also a great clubhouse guy that wants to win. Abreau hustle has been questioned at times

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned any of this (this thread is too long for me to sift through right now), but I don't see any way that this Tejada deal will be good for the Cubs if we have to give up Mark Prior. First of all, if Hendry wanted a quality shortstop, he should've overpaid for Furcal in the first place. If we have to give up Prior, it's costing us WAY more than just giving Furcal an extra mil or two. So Hendry's inability to sign a shortstop could possibly ruin our rotation, and turn one of the most promising pitchers I've ever seen over to the best pitching coach I've ever seen. Second, Tejada is not Barry Bonds. Tejada is not Albert Pujols. The fact is, he's an above average shortstop that has been linked to steroids, has been linked to lying about his real age, and can't pitch like Prior can. Third, Bedard is two or three years OLDER than Prior is. He's 28 and from what I've seen is still in his development stage that he might never get out of. Four, Hendry has said all along that this team is built on pitching... and now he wants to give away a guy that has become one of the faces of the organization? Give me a break. Just my two cents. Now I need to head out of here.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Part of the speculation around the Miggy deals has been that the Cubs want a pitcher in return like Bedard. The Cubs scouts might not have the Phillies pitchers rated as high. Abreus contract is terrible. Miggy is also a great clubhouse guy that wants to win. Abreau hustle has been questioned at times

It might just be me, but "great clubhouse guys" don't demand a trade and publically knock the team they play for.