Marquis Grissom signs with the Cubs

[BigbadB]

In the 24 games the Cubs had Lawton, he sat out of 5 of them.

 

In those same 24 games Lawton was with the Cubs, Murton got 5 starts.

 

In the next 12 games after Lawton was traded to the Yankees, Hairston took over in left for a bulk of the playing time. Murton got 14 at bats in those 12 games.

[YearofDaCubs]

I find it amusing how so many of you are so optimistic about this upcoming season when in reality Hendry hasn't done much to improve this team. This offseason has been a huge dissapointment and just like last year when most of you were so optimistic about 2005 you will be sorely dissapointed when the season goes down the drain again under Baker's and Hendry's tenure.

 

I find it amusing that some people are so pessimistic about everything (even signings that have yet to occur). I disagree that the team isn't improved over last year. Also, it's speculation to say that people will be "disappointed when the season goes down the drain." The way some people are talking, there's no reason to watch the games because the outcome has already been determined.

 

I tend to be neither overly critical nor overly optimistic but I will say that my inital post in this thread was not well received. It's one thing to disagree (this is a messageboard afterall) it's another thing to imply that a poster doesn't know what she/he is talking about (or more accurately that they haven't been paying attention) when, in fact, I haven't missed one Cubs game in over 5 years.

If you haven't missed a Cubs game in oer 5 years then you surely know how much of a dissapointment 2004 and 2005 was. Since last year our team has not improved by much. I believe our inconsistent offense was our biggest problem last year and truthfully speaking I don't see an improvement in offense. We lost Nomar and gained Pierre. That's basically what I see. Our bullpen should improve with the moves Hendry has made and we definitely can't count on our starting rotation to be 100% healthy. I will say there is more things to be pessimistic about than there are optimistic.

Edited December 30, 2005 by YearofDaCubs

[CubfaninCA]

Jacque Le Jones was not given a three year deal to sit on the bench. Murton's playing time would be in far more jeopardy if Grissom was signed rather than JJ.

 

Uhg. I hate that I just wrote that sentence and it pertains to the Cubs' 2006 outfield. What in the hell is going on with this club?!

 

Um I think Juan Le Pierre is more in jeopardy than Murton.

 

Jeopardy of what? Losing his job? He's been the centerpiece of their offsesaon. He's their ideal candidate for the much coveted speedy leadoff man.

 

 

Dusty is on record stating that he will play the guy with the bigger contract because that is why the guy got the contract. Couple that with his history of favoring older players, and all the positive things he has to say about older players, and that Murton was one of the few guys who Dusty openly criticized by name in the press, and it's pretty safe to assume that Murton will be the odd man out of the current OF.

 

Playing time.

 

Gotta love the obsessing over Hendry gutting the team by dealing Prior & the speculation over Grissom in LF. Can't wait to see what's next.

 

Can't you maintain a freaking discussion without using crap like "paranoia" and "obsessing"? What is this compulsion to constantly backhandedly run down other posters and their opinions? Jesus Christ its annoying. You make some interesting arguments, but I never take them seriously because you seem more interested in engaging people like me or Goony and simply being contrary than really staying on the merits of the discussion.

 

LOL @ me being contrary.

 

The argument that Grissom will play over Murton is contrary to common sense and basically hyperbole.

As much hyperbole as Neifi Perez playing over Cedeno or as much hyperbole as Hollandsworth playing over Dubois or Murton. Yeah right man anything is possible with Baker at the helm.

 

Murton > Cedeno

Murton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DuBois

[RockTheIvy]

I'd rather have Macias playing OF than Grissom. :-&

 

Whoah whoah whoah- Let's not say things we're gonna regret later on! :lol:

[YearofDaCubs]

How do you know Murton is greater than Cedeno when either player hasn't played much in the majors? Both were tearing it up in the minors. Why bring it up in the first place when Cedeno plays SS and Murton plays LF? Here's one for you...Cedeno >>> Perez yet Baker still played Perez over him.

[CubfaninCA]

Alright Happy New Years Eve to all. Even you JC. :) I'm out.

 

Don't anyone start boozing excessively cause you're scared to death about Grissom in LF everyday.

[goonys evil twin]

Perhaps I'm not being clear. A difference of opinion is welcomed. Insulting and condescending remarks shouldn't be.

 

Are you refering to this line by me?

 

Any Cubs fans who has paid the least bit of attention would realize this type of move would most likely cut into Murton's playing time.

 

If so, I don't know how else to phrase it. If you've paid attention to the Cubs, you have to realize that Grissom would cut into Murton's playing time. I didn't say he'd platoon with him.

 

 

And for the record, my line came in response to an earlier post by you, saying somebody was unreasonable for noting that rotoworld and dusty won't necessarily make the same decision. I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest a Grissom acquisition would mean he'll start for Murton on occasion, which would be stupid. What I think is unreasonable is expecting Dusty to go against character and suddenly make the one untested guy in the group the everyday player without threat of a platoon by a veteran.

[Chris]

Murton > Cedeno

 

:-k

[goonys evil twin]

Alright Happy New Years Eve to all. Even you JC. :) I'm out.

 

Don't anyone start boozing excessively cause you're scared to death about Grissom in LF everyday.

 

I was going to booze excessively regardless.

[CubfaninCA]

How do you know Murton is greater than Cedeno when either player hasn't played much in the majors? Both were tearing it up in the minors. Why bring it up in the first place when Cedeno plays SS and Murton plays LF? Here's one for you...Cedeno >>> Perez yet Baker still played Perez over him.

 

Here's our first bet. ;)

 

Alright I'm out.

[YearofDaCubs]

How do you know Murton is greater than Cedeno when either player hasn't played much in the majors? Both were tearing it up in the minors. Why bring it up in the first place when Cedeno plays SS and Murton plays LF? Here's one for you...Cedeno >>> Perez yet Baker still played Perez over him.

 

Here's our first bet. ;)

 

Alright I'm out.

We'll talk about a couple of bets. happy New Years. :)

[XZero771679666304]

I find it amusing how so many of you are so optimistic about this upcoming season when in reality Hendry hasn't done much to improve this team. This offseason has been a huge dissapointment and just like last year when most of you were so optimistic about 2005 you will be sorely dissapointed when the season goes down the drain again under Baker's and Hendry's tenure.

 

I find it amusing that some people are so pessimistic about everything (even signings that have yet to occur). I disagree that the team isn't improved over last year. Also, it's speculation to say that people will be "disappointed when the season goes down the drain." The way some people are talking, there's no reason to watch the games because the outcome has already been determined.

 

I tend to be neither overly critical nor overly optimistic but I will say that my inital post in this thread was not well received. It's one thing to disagree (this is a messageboard afterall) it's another thing to imply that a poster doesn't know what she/he is talking about (or more accurately that they haven't been paying attention) when, in fact, I haven't missed one Cubs game in over 5 years.

If you haven't missed a Cubs game in oer 5 years then you surely know how much of a dissapointment 2004 and 2005 was. Since last year our team has not improved by much. I believe our inconsistent offense was our biggest problem last year and truthfully speaking I don't see an improvement in offense. We lost Nomar and gained Pierre. That's basically what I see. Our bullpen should improve with the moves Hendry has made and we definitely can't count on our starting rotation to be 100% healthy. I will say there is more things to be pessimistic about than there are is optimistic.

 

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

[goonys evil twin]

How do you know Murton is greater than Cedeno when either player hasn't played much in the majors? Both were tearing it up in the minors. Why bring it up in the first place when Cedeno plays SS and Murton plays LF? Here's one for you...Cedeno >>> Perez yet Baker still played Perez over him.

 

Here's our first bet. ;)

 

Alright I'm out.

 

What's the bet? That Murton will outproduce Cedeno? That doesn't say much about who is better, since Matt is a LF and Cedeno is a SS. To say that Murton is better he would have to have a significantly higher OPS.

[Blueheart05]

Perhaps I'm not being clear. A difference of opinion is welcomed. Insulting and condescending remarks shouldn't be.

 

Are you refering to this line by me?

 

Any Cubs fans who has paid the least bit of attention would realize this type of move would most likely cut into Murton's playing time.

 

If so, I don't know how else to phrase it. If you've paid attention to the Cubs, you have to realize that Grissom would cut into Murton's playing time. I didn't say he'd platoon with him.

 

 

And for the record, my line came in response to an earlier post by you, saying somebody was unreasonable for noting that rotoworld and dusty won't necessarily make the same decision. I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest a Grissom acquisition would mean he'll start for Murton on occasion, which would be stupid. What I think is unreasonable is expecting Dusty to go against character and suddenly make the one untested guy in the group the everyday player without threat of a platoon by a veteran.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to.

 

I have been watching the same manager you have and I know his faults but I still think the chances are greater that he takes more time from Jones than Murton.

 

BigbadB wrote:

For the record, what Rotoworld would do isn't the same as what Dusty would do.

 

My response:

Come on, please be reasonable here. It makes no sense to over expose Grissom by having him start over Murton or platoon with him. Even Dusty knows Murton hits well against LHP (I would be concerned if Marquis was lefthanded). Logic dictates that he will split time with Jones

 

 

My plea for the poster to reasonable had to do with the idea that Dusty always does something counter to good sense (an exaggeration).

[goonys evil twin]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

[YearofDaCubs]

I find it amusing how so many of you are so optimistic about this upcoming season when in reality Hendry hasn't done much to improve this team. This offseason has been a huge dissapointment and just like last year when most of you were so optimistic about 2005 you will be sorely dissapointed when the season goes down the drain again under Baker's and Hendry's tenure.

 

I find it amusing that some people are so pessimistic about everything (even signings that have yet to occur). I disagree that the team isn't improved over last year. Also, it's speculation to say that people will be "disappointed when the season goes down the drain." The way some people are talking, there's no reason to watch the games because the outcome has already been determined.

 

I tend to be neither overly critical nor overly optimistic but I will say that my inital post in this thread was not well received. It's one thing to disagree (this is a messageboard afterall) it's another thing to imply that a poster doesn't know what she/he is talking about (or more accurately that they haven't been paying attention) when, in fact, I haven't missed one Cubs game in over 5 years.

If you haven't missed a Cubs game in oer 5 years then you surely know how much of a dissapointment 2004 and 2005 was. Since last year our team has not improved by much. I believe our inconsistent offense was our biggest problem last year and truthfully speaking I don't see an improvement in offense. We lost Nomar and gained Pierre. That's basically what I see. Our bullpen should improve with the moves Hendry has made and we definitely can't count on our starting rotation to be 100% healthy. I will say there is more things to be pessimistic about than there are is optimistic.

 

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

I still don't see it as a big improvement considering Pierre had a down year last year and we are counting on two rookies whom we don't know what we will get from them start for us. I would have liked a better option in RF for us than JJones and I would have been a much happier person to be honest. Using the money that was given to Rusch and Perez go towards another starting pitcher would have been nice too.

[XZero771679666304]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

 

If Murton gets the lion's share of the PT, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect at least a .050 boost in OPS from LF. If being the operative word.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

 

If Murton gets the lion's share of the PT, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect at least a .050 boost in OPS from LF. If being the operative word.

 

I think it's far from certain that Murton will put up an .800 OPS.

[XZero771679666304]

I find it amusing how so many of you are so optimistic about this upcoming season when in reality Hendry hasn't done much to improve this team. This offseason has been a huge dissapointment and just like last year when most of you were so optimistic about 2005 you will be sorely dissapointed when the season goes down the drain again under Baker's and Hendry's tenure.

 

I find it amusing that some people are so pessimistic about everything (even signings that have yet to occur). I disagree that the team isn't improved over last year. Also, it's speculation to say that people will be "disappointed when the season goes down the drain." The way some people are talking, there's no reason to watch the games because the outcome has already been determined.

 

I tend to be neither overly critical nor overly optimistic but I will say that my inital post in this thread was not well received. It's one thing to disagree (this is a messageboard afterall) it's another thing to imply that a poster doesn't know what she/he is talking about (or more accurately that they haven't been paying attention) when, in fact, I haven't missed one Cubs game in over 5 years.

If you haven't missed a Cubs game in oer 5 years then you surely know how much of a dissapointment 2004 and 2005 was. Since last year our team has not improved by much. I believe our inconsistent offense was our biggest problem last year and truthfully speaking I don't see an improvement in offense. We lost Nomar and gained Pierre. That's basically what I see. Our bullpen should improve with the moves Hendry has made and we definitely can't count on our starting rotation to be 100% healthy. I will say there is more things to be pessimistic about than there are is optimistic.

 

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

I still don't see it as a big improvement considering Pierre had a down year last year and we are counting on two rookies whom we don't know what we will get from them start for us. I would have liked a better option in RF for us than JJones and I would have been a much happier person to be honest. Using the money that was given to Rusch and Perez go towards another starting pitcher would have been nice too.

 

I'm not going to read too much into Pierre's 2005. If he had 2 seasons of decline I'd be concerned. And there is no way Murton and Cedeno could be as bad or worse than their 2005 counterparts.

[BigbadB]

For the record, what Rotoworld would do isn't the same as what Dusty would do.

 

Come on, please be reasonable here. It makes no sense to over expose Grissom by having him start over Murton or platoon with him. Even Dusty knows Murton hits well against LHP (I would be concerned if Marquis was lefthanded). Logic dictates that he will split time with Jones

 

I missed this one while I was out working in the garage. Reasonable is thinking that Grissom would play in place of Murton long before he plays in place of Jones when Dusty is the manager.

 

Last year when Murton got called up, he got very little playing time if any. The Cubs used Hollandsworth, Dubois until that proved inadequate. They used Hairston and Gerut while Murton was available. They traded for Lawton while Murton was outproducing all of them.

 

Only once the season was basically over for Cubs playoff chances did Murton get any significant playing time. Jones makes big money. Dusty doesn't sit the big money guys.

 

Same thing with Cedeno. When Cedeno was the best available option while Nomar and Walker were out, Enrique Wilson was brought in and Cedeno was sent down.

 

I watch this team daily too. I've lost a lot of faith in Dusty doing the right thing. Dusty is also the same guy who made the comment that light skinned players can't handle playing most of their games in the hot daytime sun like dark skinned players, so who sits on back to back hot days in the sun? Jones or Murton? Maybe Dusty will prove me wrong. But, until he does, I have every reason to be extremely skeptical at this point.

[E.J.]

I love that there's 8 pages of arguing and Grissom hasn't even signed (yet). We Cub fans need some good news for once. Hopefully that will come sometime this offseason.

[YearofDaCubs]

I find it amusing how so many of you are so optimistic about this upcoming season when in reality Hendry hasn't done much to improve this team. This offseason has been a huge dissapointment and just like last year when most of you were so optimistic about 2005 you will be sorely dissapointed when the season goes down the drain again under Baker's and Hendry's tenure.

 

I find it amusing that some people are so pessimistic about everything (even signings that have yet to occur). I disagree that the team isn't improved over last year. Also, it's speculation to say that people will be "disappointed when the season goes down the drain." The way some people are talking, there's no reason to watch the games because the outcome has already been determined.

 

I tend to be neither overly critical nor overly optimistic but I will say that my inital post in this thread was not well received. It's one thing to disagree (this is a messageboard afterall) it's another thing to imply that a poster doesn't know what she/he is talking about (or more accurately that they haven't been paying attention) when, in fact, I haven't missed one Cubs game in over 5 years.

If you haven't missed a Cubs game in oer 5 years then you surely know how much of a dissapointment 2004 and 2005 was. Since last year our team has not improved by much. I believe our inconsistent offense was our biggest problem last year and truthfully speaking I don't see an improvement in offense. We lost Nomar and gained Pierre. That's basically what I see. Our bullpen should improve with the moves Hendry has made and we definitely can't count on our starting rotation to be 100% healthy. I will say there is more things to be pessimistic about than there are is optimistic.

 

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

I still don't see it as a big improvement considering Pierre had a down year last year and we are counting on two rookies whom we don't know what we will get from them start for us. I would have liked a better option in RF for us than JJones and I would have been a much happier person to be honest. Using the money that was given to Rusch and Perez go towards another starting pitcher would have been nice too.

 

I'm not going to read too much into Pierre's 2005. If he had 2 seasons of decline I'd be concerned. And there is no way Murton and Cedeno could be as bad or worse than their 2005 counterparts.

I will agree with you that Pierre should go back to his normal numbers and I'm hoping he does at the same time he will be playing for a new team and new ball park that could affect his numbers either way. I really hope Murton and Cedeno start and I'm really high on them but there is no guarantee on the numbers they get. They could also slump we just don't know. Getting a good Rfer should have been the priority going into this offseason.

[YearofDaCubs]

I love that there's 8 pages of arguing and Grissom hasn't even signed (yet). We Cub fans need some good news for once. Hopefully that will come sometime this offseason.

Here's hoping for some good news :)

[BigbadB]

It is a contract year for Pierre, so this coming year is as good as any for him to produce at his highest potential.

 

He has a whole lot to lose if he has another year like last year.

[XZero771679666304]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

 

If Murton gets the lion's share of the PT, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect at least a .050 boost in OPS from LF. If being the operative word.

 

I think it's far from certain that Murton will put up an .800 OPS.

 

Well, if .319 + .418 = .750, then I wouldn't have made that statement. I think an OPS of .785 is perfectly reasonable to expect, and far more conservative than some others here have predicted for him. He put up a .907 OPS in 2005, and if you subract his bloop and nub hits, I think .785 is a realistic guess.

Edited December 30, 2005 by XZero77