Can the Jays compete in the AL East?

[rawaction]

The makeup of this team kinda reminds me of the Orioles teams of a few years back who threw a $100M+ team on the field, only to have them disappoint. The Jays have thrown a lot of money out there, but they do have much younger talent than many of the O's teams did.

 

Roster looks like:

 

LF- Reed Johnson

2B- Aaron Hill

CF- Vernon Wells

3B- Troy Glaus

1B- Lyle Overbay

DH- Corey Koskie/Shea Hillenbrand

SS- Russ Adams

C- Gregg Zaun

RF- Alex Rios

 

Rotation

 

Roy Halladay

AJ Burnett

Gustavo Chacin

Josh Towers

Dustin McGowan

 

Bullpen

 

CL- BJ Ryan

Justin Speier

Jason Frasar

Scott Schoenweis

Pete Walker

Shaun Marcum

 

Solid rotation, strong at the top. Potentially great bullpen. Decent, but far from great lineup.

 

With the Yanks age and rotation problems, and the Sox losing Damon, Renteria, and possibly Manny....can Toronto compete?

Edited December 28, 2005 by rawaction

[goonys evil twin]

They have no chance of winning the NL east.

[BigbadB]

They have no chance of winning the NL east.

 

No chance? Boston hasn't done a whole lot. The Yankees are a year older. I wouldn't pick Toronto, but I wouldn't say they have no chance. Remote is a better word.

 

Didn't we just have this same discussion recently in reverse? :D

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I said the Packers had "no chance" to beat the Bears.

Edited December 28, 2005 by BigbadB

[CardsFanInChiTown]

A lot depends on the health of Roy Halladay and AJ Burnett. I wouldn't call them favorites but they're in the mix.

[goonys evil twin]

They look very hodge podge to me. Actually it's very similar to how I thought about the Red Sox back in the late 90's and early 00's. They were possibly the least talented very expensive team in the league, with guys like Daubach, Offerman, O'Leary and Nixon playing major roles at impact positions. And they were pretty much centered around one great starting pitcher and a bunch of mediocre guys.

 

This Toronto team is strange. I've never been a Vernon Wells fan. Rios and Johnson don't impress me much. Overbay is a decent enough hitter, but hardly an impact 1B. I think the lineup is balanced, but not intimidating. They'll get on base a lot, but won't be knocking guys out early. They will be an annoying lineup to face. The rotation is pretty top heavy, but potentially the best in the division. I think that they'll need a pretty steep decline by the Yanks and Red Sox to have a chance, because I don't see Toronto winning 95 games. 90 is within reach, but 88 is probably more likely. If Baltimore and Tampa are as bad as they can be, maybe they can rack up a bunch of cheap wins.

[goonys evil twin]

They have no chance of winning the NL east.

 

No chance? Boston hasn't done a whole lot. The Yankees are a year older. I wouldn't pick Toronto, but I wouldn't say they have no chance. Remote is a better word.

 

Didn't we just have this same discussion recently in reverse? :D

 

Edit: Oh yeah, I said the Packers had "no chance" to beat the Bears.

 

Seriously, nobody caught this?

 

NL East

AL East

 

I thought you said GB had no chance against Seattle.

[BigbadB]

Seriously, nobody caught this?

 

NL East

AL East

 

I thought you said GB had no chance against Seattle.

 

Ah, I missed the NL East thing. Your right. They have no chance of that.

 

Maybe I did say Seattle rather than the Bears. But, since Seattle has it locked up, we'll never know.

[RynoRules]

If Chachin and Towers are good and the middle relief holds up, I think they could leapfrog the Red Sox and challenge for the WC. But the Yanks are likely to outscore everyone.

[rawaction]

Seriously, nobody caught this?

 

NL East

AL East

 

I thought you said GB had no chance against Seattle.

 

Ah, I missed the NL East thing. Your right. They have no chance of that.

 

Maybe I did say Seattle rather than the Bears. But, since Seattle has it locked up, we'll never know.

 

I'll take the blame for that....afterall, I had NL in the thread title. :oops:

[AcesHigh]

They look very hodge podge to me.

I agree. They have some big name and impact players at some spots, but they have a lot of young/inexperinced/subpar players who they are counting on to support the big names, especially in the lineup. Adams, Zaun, Rios at the bottom won't win any division titles.

 

However, the top of that rotation, if it stays healthy, could be very dangerous and keep them in the mix.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it may depend on how bad Tampa and Baltimore plus Boston if they don't plug some holes and since they play them 40 times each.

 

I also think the Yanks better upgrade their starting pitching a little more to be able to dominate this division. If Holly or Burnett are on the Yanks have to be able to keep Toronto from scoring.

[Butterscup1679666578]

They'll be competitive, and could play the upset role come September, but they won't finish higher than 3rd. However, I could see them going .500 with no problem, and that's a step in the right direction.

[K-Town]

Is anybody besides me rooting AGAINST Toronto? They seem to be a mold for all that's wrong with the game, and in some ways I hold them mostly responsible for driving the salaries up this off-season.

 

I just don't like them, but I can't pinpoint why not. In fact, I wish that entire division would just cease to exist.

[Magnetic Curses]

Is anybody besides me rooting AGAINST Toronto? They seem to be a mold for all that's wrong with the game, and in some ways I hold them mostly responsible for driving the salaries up this off-season.

 

I just don't like them, but I can't pinpoint why not. In fact, I wish that entire division would just cease to exist.

 

if you think they're "a mold for all that's wrong with the game", you probably should be able to pinpoint why you don't like them.

 

i, for one, love ricciardi's team.

[BigbadB]

Is anybody besides me rooting AGAINST Toronto? They seem to be a mold for all that's wrong with the game, and in some ways I hold them mostly responsible for driving the salaries up this off-season.

 

I just don't like them, but I can't pinpoint why not. In fact, I wish that entire division would just cease to exist.

 

I don't feel that way. I think they felt they were within striking distance with the combination of youth and talent they had on their roster along with some solid additions.

 

Because of their location, their forced to spend top dollar to coax players to move to Canada.

 

They might still only finish 3rd, but they have put together a team that has the potential to be better than all the teams in the AL Central or West, and could also slide by Boston or the Yankees if either team falters.

[Magnetic Curses]

They look very hodge podge to me.

I agree. They have some big name and impact players at some spots, but they have a lot of young/inexperinced/subpar players who they are counting on to support the big names, especially in the lineup. Adams, Zaun, Rios at the bottom won't win any division titles.

 

However, the top of that rotation, if it stays healthy, could be very dangerous and keep them in the mix.

 

zaun may be the most underrated catcher in the major leagues. both adams and rios are pretty decent looking young players that look to be ready to break out.

 

that team is loaded with young talent, maybe not a ton of power.

 

i don't see a major hole.

[K-Town]

Is anybody besides me rooting AGAINST Toronto? They seem to be a mold for all that's wrong with the game, and in some ways I hold them mostly responsible for driving the salaries up this off-season.

 

I just don't like them, but I can't pinpoint why not. In fact, I wish that entire division would just cease to exist.

 

if you think they're "a mold for all that's wrong with the game", you probably should be able to pinpoint why you don't like them.

 

i, for one, love ricciardi's team.

 

Well, I mentioned that I think they helped to drive salaries up this off-season. It's mainly the money-spending thing, I guess. They've been in the bottom 1/3 in baseball in attendance for 5 years in a row (barely beating out teams like Cincy, Colorado, and Pittsburgh), and yet they're able to spend like there's no tomorrow? I mean, I don't HATE them..... they just don't ever seem to have much personality.

[Magnetic Curses]

Is anybody besides me rooting AGAINST Toronto? They seem to be a mold for all that's wrong with the game, and in some ways I hold them mostly responsible for driving the salaries up this off-season.

 

I just don't like them, but I can't pinpoint why not. In fact, I wish that entire division would just cease to exist.

 

if you think they're "a mold for all that's wrong with the game", you probably should be able to pinpoint why you don't like them.

 

i, for one, love ricciardi's team.

 

Well, I mentioned that I think they helped to drive salaries up this off-season. It's mainly the money-spending thing, I guess. They've been in the bottom 1/3 in baseball in attendance for 5 years in a row (barely beating out teams like Cincy, Colorado, and Pittsburgh), and yet they're able to spend like there's no tomorrow? I mean, I don't HATE them..... they just don't ever seem to have much personality.

 

well, they play in canada, which isn't good for press here in the states, canadians don't seem very big on the sport either, it hasn't caught on really anywhere, so that could be another factor. plus, they play in the same division that boston and new york play in, which is death.

 

JP will have the competing at some point, it looks like he's starting to turn them around.

[goonys evil twin]

At one point Toronto was pulling in record attendance leves, around 4 million a year. This isn't a Marlins team that can't draw a crowd, win or lose. They still aren't spending nearly as much as the big boys. They've gone cheap in several spots so they can afford to spend big in others.

[UK1679666180]

Good enough to complete for 1st in every other division but the AL East. Best 3rd place team in MLB.

[Roast]

Good enough to complete for 1st in every other division but the AL East. Best 3rd place team in MLB.

 

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. They have a good team, no doubt. But like i said before, when you are a team with a 65 million dollar payroll surrounded by teams like the yankee's and the Redsox....your like a midgett in a world of giants.

 

Yea, you can beat them (see: 03 marlins), but you have a whole lot going against you.

[chopsx9]

Look for Rios to have a Shawn Green type break out season. Reduced playing time for Hinske adds 3 or 4 W's on it's own. (Add another couple of games if they dump him). Chacin was very good last year, Towers was surprising if those two can repeat or improve (which is very possible) they could do some damage. They could fairly easily improve on Johnson in left (although he is a nice player). I look for them to surprise a lot of people.

 

Yes they have spent some big money but 5 of their starting 9 and several of the pitchers are home grown. I think it is a good mix.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

90 is within reach, but 88 is probably more likely.

 

Wouldn't that be about 102 in Canadian wins though? I doubt the Yanks or Red Sox can match that.

[rawaction]

Look for Rios to have a Shawn Green type break out season. Reduced playing time for Hinske adds 3 or 4 W's on it's own. (Add another couple of games if they dump him). Chacin was very good last year, Towers was surprising if those two can repeat or improve (which is very possible) they could do some damage. They could fairly easily improve on Johnson in left (although he is a nice player). I look for them to surprise a lot of people.

 

Yes they have spent some big money but 5 of their starting 9 and several of the pitchers are home grown. I think it is a good mix.

 

Really? You think that highly of Rios? I don't think he's horrible, but he's never shown anything close to Shawn Green's power or patience. 20 HRs in over 2000 minor league ABs, 11 HRs in just over 900 ML ABs. For a RF, he's probably as unproductive as you can get.

 

I agree with the rest though. Hinske stinks.

[chopsx9]

I didn't mean they would neccesarily post similar numbers. Green took a couple of years in the majors to break out (as did Olreud, not sure if that is a Toronto thing??) and I think Rios will have a similar developmental pattern. But, yes Green was better than Rios at a similar stage.