[CardsFanInChiTown]

> I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

The holidays gave the powers-that-be a brief respite from thinking about this deal. If it's really true the Cubs have their final offer(s) on the table, negotiations are over and I don't see why it should take longer than tomorrow or Thu for the O's to pull the trigger, and they'd be idiots not to (please let them be idiots ).

 

The O's tend to be pretty slow about things plus there seems to be a lot of different offers on the table to evaluate. I think if a team backs out it'll be the O's however they are in a bind considering Tejada wants out.

[CubfaninCA]

This pitching staff can still be quite good, but it relies heavily on Wood. Thus there's little chance. Williams may far well w/ more run support behind him though.

[USSoccer]

> I say yes - Tejada wants out and Hendry seems to be a man on a mission.

 

The holidays gave the powers-that-be a brief respite from thinking about this deal. If it's really true the Cubs have their final offer(s) on the table, negotiations are over and I don't see why it should take longer than tomorrow or Thu for the O's to pull the trigger, and they'd be idiots not to (please let them be idiots ).

 

The O's tend to be pretty slow about things plus there seems to be a lot of different offers on the table to evaluate. I think if a team backs out it'll be the O's but they are in a bind considering Tejada wants out.

 

Which is another reason Hendry shouldn't give up Prior. It's their player that wants out; we should have more leverage than we're acting like.

[FergieJ31]

...Baseball is an unpredictable game.

 

Ya pays your money and you takes your chances. For the next several years I like the Cubs chances a LOT more with Prior and Z anchoring the rotation than without.

[goonys evil twin]

This pitching staff can still be quite good, but it relies heavily on Wood. Thus there's little chance. Williams may far well w/ more run support behind him though.

 

This pitching staff can be quite good with Zambrano and Prior at the top of their game, with or without Wood at his best. But take away Prior, and then Wood's status becomes an enormous obstacle.

[USSoccer]

This pitching staff can still be quite good, but it relies heavily on Wood. Thus there's little chance. Williams may far well w/ more run support behind him though.

 

This pitching staff can be quite good with Zambrano and Prior at the top of their game, with or without Wood at his best. But take away Prior, and then Wood's status becomes an enormous obstacle.

 

And if you throw in the fact that 2006 Greg Maddux has a chance to make Shawn Estes of 2003 look desirable going into 2006, and that's an even bigger obstacle.

[YearofDaCubs]

This pitching staff can still be quite good, but it relies heavily on Wood. Thus there's little chance. Williams may far well w/ more run support behind him though.

 

This pitching staff can be quite good with Zambrano and Prior at the top of their game, with or without Wood at his best. But take away Prior, and then Wood's status becomes an enormous obstacle.

 

And if you throw in the fact that 2006 Greg Maddux has a chance to make Shawn Estes of 2003 look desirable going into 2006, and that's an even bigger obstacle.

I have to agree. No doubt will our offense be very good with the addition of Tejada but man this trade just kills our rotation.

[brinoch]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

[CubfaninCA]

Maddux is way too crafty to be as bad as Estes was in 03.

[FergieJ31]

When I think of Shawn Estes I want to remember him by that gem he pitched against the Reds down the stretch in '03, in his final start as a Cub. (Though it's true that the Reds were fielding a AAAA team by that point...)

[Roast]

they said Levine would be on "later this hour"

[USSoccer]

Maddux is way too crafty to be as bad as Estes was in 03.

 

I don't know about that. Maddux got crushed a lot last season, and you can only expect it to get worse as he's another year older. He gave up a ton of home runs, and put us out of a lot of games early. I don't see it as that far out of the question.

 

Estes was 8-11 with a 5.73 in 2003 He gave up 20 hr's. Maddux was 13-15 with a 4.24, and gave up 29. The only thing keeping his ERA from exploding is the fact that he doesn't walk guys, but that could easily change with age. It's really not that much of a stretch

Edited December 27, 2005 by USSoccer

[JWCUB]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

Thats why I have said all along that we need Manny, not Miggy. Just look at the production. Sure he is a headcase, but again, look at the production. You cant realistically beat Mannys production. If everyone wants to look at stats then look. Cedeno would be just fine at short. And is young and cheap. Just try to imagine what that line-up could produce.

[Bull]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

brionch you know you're my boy, but how .950 OPS right-fielders were available this offseason? There were only 3 .950+ OPS outfielders in all of baseball last year. Brian Giles wasn't one of them. Manny, Bay, Guererro. Unless your suggesting the Cubs trade Prior for Manny. (don't do it...I got eyerolled off the board for suggesting it would be better than Tejada for Prior---still not good, but better.)

 

Tejada at .865 is nothing to sneeze at. You were (we all were) spoiled by good Sammy into thinking that 1.100 OPS should be expected from your RF.

 

 

 

 

I still don't give up Prior for Tejada.

[JWCUB]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

brionch you know you're my boy, but how .950 OPS right-fielders were available this offseason? There were only 3 .950+ OPS outfielders in all of baseball last year. Brian Giles wasn't one of them. Manny, Bay, Guererro. Unless your suggesting the Cubs trade Prior for Manny. (don't do it...I got eyerolled off the board for suggesting it would be better than Tejada for Prior---still not good, but better.)

 

Tejada at .865 is nothing to sneeze at. You were (we all were) spoiled by good Sammy into thinking that 1.100 OPS should be expected from your RF.

 

 

 

 

I still don't give up Prior for Tejada.

 

No eyerolling here MrWood, you are right on. This is what we pay Dusy for. To control uncontrollable players. Everyone was on the Bradley bandWGN. Manny is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Bradley. Again, just look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.

[8-8-88]

Any word on what Levine had to say?

[E.J.]

Any word on what Levine had to say?

 

Hasn't been on yet, but they say he's coming on soon.

[Coach C]

Man, if Prior is traded, I get the bad feeling of a Greg Maddux, part II. You know, where Greg went to Atlanta and produced numberous of Cy Youngs and all that.

 

Edit: Not saying Prior is Greg Maddux, but referring to the front office making past mistakes and so on.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Coach C

[SeldomSeen]

I agree 100%. If Tejada were younger, left handed, played RF (pre-Jock signing), and without steroid suspicion, I'd think more of this proposal. As it is I think there is far too much risk involved. Prior's potential to string together 20 win/ sub 3.5 (or even <3.00) ERA seasons shouldn't be taken so lightly, imo.

 

If he played RF his production would be far less impressive. The bulk of his value comes from the position he plays on the field. He's not a triple crown threat by any stretch. He's not a 3 or 4 hitter on a big budget team.

 

Point taken. I was assuming top 3 at his position, and I'd much prefer a top 3 RF than SS with Cedeno around.

[Bull]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

brionch you know you're my boy, but how .950 OPS right-fielders were available this offseason? There were only 3 .950+ OPS outfielders in all of baseball last year. Brian Giles wasn't one of them. Manny, Bay, Guererro. Unless your suggesting the Cubs trade Prior for Manny. (don't do it...I got eyerolled off the board for suggesting it would be better than Tejada for Prior---still not good, but better.)

 

Tejada at .865 is nothing to sneeze at. You were (we all were) spoiled by good Sammy into thinking that 1.100 OPS should be expected from your RF.

 

 

 

 

I still don't give up Prior for Tejada.

 

No eyerolling here MrWood, you are right on. This is what we pay Dusy for. To control uncontrollable players. Everyone was on the Bradley bandWGN. Manny is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Bradley. Again, just look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.

 

Difference: Bradley wouldn't have cost you Prior.

 

I'm not suggesting trade Prior for Manny, just that its better than Prior for Tejada.

[nolanwood]

Trading Prior for Tejada is the dumbest move Hendry could ever make. Our rotation will absolutely blow without Prior, and I could care less if we get Bedard. Without Prior we have an ace in Z, and if Wood isnt healthy our pitching staff will absolutely suck.

 

It's nice to have alot of offense, but we'll be considerably overpaying for that production because it is a rare find @ SS. Regardless, stellar pitching outweighs picking up another bat. With Prior on the mound, we've got an excellent shot @ winning 1 out of every 5 games. Can Tejada make that difference?

[JWCUB]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

brionch you know you're my boy, but how .950 OPS right-fielders were available this offseason? There were only 3 .950+ OPS outfielders in all of baseball last year. Brian Giles wasn't one of them. Manny, Bay, Guererro. Unless your suggesting the Cubs trade Prior for Manny. (don't do it...I got eyerolled off the board for suggesting it would be better than Tejada for Prior---still not good, but better.)

 

Tejada at .865 is nothing to sneeze at. You were (we all were) spoiled by good Sammy into thinking that 1.100 OPS should be expected from your RF.

 

 

 

 

I still don't give up Prior for Tejada.

 

No eyerolling here MrWood, you are right on. This is what we pay Dusy for. To control uncontrollable players. Everyone was on the Bradley bandWGN. Manny is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Bradley. Again, just look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.

 

Difference: Bradley wouldn't have cost you Prior.

 

I'm not suggesting trade Prior for Manny, just that its better than Prior for Tejada.

I understand your point. If it was up to me, I'd keep Prior. But Hendry seems hell-bent on using him for an impact bat. Like you said, if you are going to trade him, at least try to trade him for the best options. IMO Manny would help out this team more than Miggy.

[Roast]

Levine is on ESPN 1000 Right now..

[E.J.]

I still think this is a poor deal for the Cubs. Prior is one of those rare pitchers that you don't trade away for an excellent, though aging veteran. He's a home-grown product and is extremely popular with the fan-base. Moreover, as Goony points out, this deal weakens the pitching staff tremendously. On paper, when healthy, Zambrano-Prior-Wood-Williams-Maddux is tremendously better than Zambrano-Wood-Bedard-Williams-Maddux. Especially given that we do not know when -- or if -- Wood will recover from his shoulder surgery. On top of that, we've traded several MLB-ready or close to ready pitchers already this offseason.

 

If you're hell-bent on trading Prior, you damn well better shop around and see what you can get for him. I'm pretty confident that you could do better than packaging Prior for Tejada-Bedard.

 

Finally, one key point: Tejada provides great production for his position. Let me emphasize for his position. Why is this important? Because our offense is still underpowered if we add Tejada. Sure, Ramirez, Lee and Tejada are very good, but we still have a weak outfield. The upgrade of Tejada over Cedeno is not as significant as the upgrade we needed in RF. I'm sorry, but Jones doesn't cut it with me. Not all position are created equal. I'd much rather spend a ton of money for a .950 OPS-hitting RF than a ton of money on a .850 hitting SS.

 

Hendry, by signing Jones, has again overpaid for mediocrity. And seemingly wants to compound the error by significantly downgrading our pitching. Prior, plus Cedeno at .700 OPS and a RF at .950 OPS is better than Bedard, Tejada and Jones.

 

brionch you know you're my boy, but how .950 OPS right-fielders were available this offseason? There were only 3 .950+ OPS outfielders in all of baseball last year. Brian Giles wasn't one of them. Manny, Bay, Guererro. Unless your suggesting the Cubs trade Prior for Manny. (don't do it...I got eyerolled off the board for suggesting it would be better than Tejada for Prior---still not good, but better.)

 

Tejada at .865 is nothing to sneeze at. You were (we all were) spoiled by good Sammy into thinking that 1.100 OPS should be expected from your RF.

 

 

 

 

I still don't give up Prior for Tejada.

 

No eyerolling here MrWood, you are right on. This is what we pay Dusy for. To control uncontrollable players. Everyone was on the Bradley bandWGN. Manny is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Bradley. Again, just look at his numbers. They speak for themselves.

 

Difference: Bradley wouldn't have cost you Prior.

 

I'm not suggesting trade Prior for Manny, just that its better than Prior for Tejada.

I understand your point. If it was up to me, I'd keep Prior. But Hendry seems hell-bent on using him for an impact bat. Like you said, if you are going to trade him, at least try to trade him for the best options. IMO Manny would help out this team more than Miggy.

 

I think you're forgetting that Manny costs $20 million a year.

[Coach C]

Levine is on ESPN 1000 Right now..

 

Would you, or someone else for that matter, be kind enough to give out the transactions?

 

Much appreciated.