Should we be patient?

[Backtobanks]

I am as impatient as anyone out there, but maybe we need to realize that it is only December 15th and that a lot of things could happen in the next 6-7 weeks (or even into spring training). After the holidays, teams could realize that they need to make the trade that they're sitting on right now. Situations change that might make a GM rethink trade offers. What if some of the players in the World Classic get injured? If the Mets manage to get Manny, Floyd becomes available. If Tejada gets traded, some other team might feel the need to make a deal. I still think there is a decent chance we could get Huff, Lugo, Green, Nixon, Mench, Wilkerson, or Kearns. I still think there is a slight chance of us getting Tejada or Floyd. Unfortunately, a lot of us would sleep a little better if we had one or more of those players on the team today.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Who invited the optimist? :lol:

[goonys evil twin]

I heard the same thing in November, I heard the same thing before the winter meeting. I heard the same thing during the winter meetings. I heard the same thing in April, May, June and July last season. I heard the same thing last offseason. I've heard about the need to be patient for years. The time for patience was 94-99, when Andy was overhauling a joke of a franchise. This team is no longer a joke. This team no longer has the excuse that the previous management group bled the franchise dry. This management team doesn't have the benefit of patience. It's now or never, do or die, or whatever else you want to say.

[Balsa]

*obligatory dropping of 1908 and criticism of Tribune for not dropping all the cash they have into getting a winning team*

 

*comment that Cubs fans have waited long enough*

 

*threat to stop being a Cubs fan if the management does such-and-such*

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry has done nothing to improve the offense the past two years. Hendry with his "obviously's" in every sentence he speaks and no RF obviously in sight. Unless you guys are willing to go through an entire season of boos and Corey in RF then your expectations are much lower than mine. Although I had serious doubts I figured Hendry with the payroll and his talk about making trades to improve the team might have done something for the fans. He did improve the bullpen and he did acquire Pierre but we need more help than that.

[CuseCubFan69]

I heard the same thing in November, I heard the same thing before the winter meeting. I heard the same thing during the winter meetings. I heard the same thing in April, May, June and July last season. I heard the same thing last offseason. I've heard about the need to be patient for years. The time for patience was 94-99, when Andy was overhauling a joke of a franchise. This team is no longer a joke. This team no longer has the excuse that the previous management group bled the franchise dry. This management team doesn't have the benefit of patience. It's now or never, do or die, or whatever else you want to say.

 

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

 

And please, don't give me your opinion, I would like just the facts. :D

[BigbadB]

Should we be patient? Good question. Considering at this point in the offseason, we could potentially hide a Rule 5 draft pick in RF all season long, I think the time to be patient has passed. :wink:

[The Voice of Reason]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

[JeffH]

It is rather unfortunate that quality corner outfielders have become less common (correcting for how many of each are called for on a roster) - and possibly more valuable - than quality starting pitchers.

[Andy]

Patient this off-season? Probably

 

Patient overall? No. Remember, each day, more Cubs fans die without ever having seen a World Series title. Sad but true.

[anemic offense]

I don't know, that's a tough call. Although Hendry has DEFINATELY made some moves he shouldn't have the last few years, you can't blame him for everything. In all honesty, who would have though LT would turn out to be the disaster he was?? Who would have though Corey would regress to rookie season numbers (not even I, a notorious Corey detractor, saw that coming)? Who would have thought Nomar would tear his groin at the beginning of the season? And finally, who would have though we'd have the pitching woes we did last season? A lot fo these things that happend were out of pure sh*tty luck. But then you have the Maddux signing (a waste of money), the inability to mold an even AVERAGE pen, and the retardation by CHOICE which was displayed when Dusty and his entire worthless coaching staff was retained. IN particular the highly overrated Larry Rothschild.

 

IMO, the problem with gauging this team is it could literally go one way or another. I'm not being optimistically naive by saying the Cubs have a very good core. We've got Aram, Lee, Barret, Zambrano, Prior, and maybe Dempster. That, if properly builty around, is good enough to win. We've got a couple young kids who hold the most true promise since Choi, and they don't have the accompanying holes in their swing. The Cubs signed two relievers who could be really good, or complete disasters. Our bench doesnt' figure to be too bad with Neifi (if this team uses him for his true bench role) and Mabry but you really never know. Then there's Patterson. A guy who has the chance to be pretty good, but also figures to equally be pretty bad. Maybe this is asking a lot, but this team can be good if we win even half these "battles". Then again, there hasn't been a significant infusion of outsourced talent to guarantee they won't be pretty bad either. Much of this depends on these outcomes and health. You guys may be writing them off, but I'm sure not. Then again, I'm not jumping up and down in joy either.

 

IMO, the most DISAPPOINTING aspect of the offseason was the retainance of the entire coaching staff. Although the players are ultimately repsonsible for their actions (or lack thereof) the coaching staff should share equal culpibility as well. For the umpteenth straight year our offense was the most fundamentally inept in all of baseaball. Someone should have paid for it. For the third straight year we had a manager who made so many inexplicable and logically devoid decisions that he should have punched his ticket out of town. But he's still here. Then there's the much ballyhooed Rothschild. In EVERY season he's been here the bullpen has underacheived (which is where I think good PCs can have the most impact). He's also been the head of some of the most talented SPs in baseball yet the only one who's shown significant improvement under his tutelage has been Z (you could throw Clement in there too). Simply put, this coaching staff has UTTERLY FAILED at successfully executing every phase of the game. So why are they still here??? If there is ANYTHING Hendry should be blasted for its this.

 

IMO, our coaching staff is the number one reason why my enthusiasm for this team is lacking. And with the voids which have currently been left unanswered that's saying something. And it's not good.

[waffle]

I've had it with patient, I'm switching to bitter and sarcastic with the possibility of homicidal if the season breaks JUST right.

[BigbadB]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

 

A little more perspective:

 

Cardinals were coming off 4 out of 5 years of playoff appearances on December 18th of last year, including a 1st place finish and a trip to the World Series. It doesn't kill their fan base to hold out for something better to come along. They also followed up the moves after December 18th with another 1st place finish.

 

The Cubs lost more games than they won last year.

[indifferent]

It is rather unfortunate that quality corner outfielders have become less common (correcting for how many of each are called for on a roster) - and possibly more valuable - than quality starting pitchers.

 

No kidding, was it just a year or two ago when they were a dime a dozen? What happened to the conventional wisdom that it was much easier to trade for an OF bat than a starting pitcher?

[The Voice of Reason]

A little perspective.

 

Last year Jocketty didn't add some pretty important pieces of the 2005 Cardinals (Mulder, Eckstein, Grudzy and Nunez) until after December 18th.

 

Sooner or later some teams are going to start reducing payroll and then Hendry can pounce. Give him some more time.

 

If Hendry screws up this year, he should be fired.

 

A little more perspective:

 

Cardinals were coming off 4 out of 5 years of playoff appearances on December 18th of last year, including a 1st place finish and a trip to the World Series. It doesn't kill their fan base to hold out for something better to come along. They also followed up the moves after December 18th with another 1st place finish.

 

The Cubs lost more games than they won last year.

 

Even more perspective:

 

Good transactions happen and good players are obtained after the Winter Meetings. Don't forget the Sosa for Bell trade wasn't made until the middle of spring training - I remember because I was there. I recall listening to 99.99% of the Cubs fans there state how one-sided the trade was - in favor of the White Sox.

[goonys evil twin]

Good transactions happen and good players are obtained after the Winter Meetings. Don't forget the Sosa for Bell trade wasn't made until the middle of spring training - I remember because I was there. I recall listening to 99.99% of the Cubs fans there state how one-sided the trade was - in favor of the White Sox.

 

That was a trade made by a crappy team with no hope for the near future. The Cubs don't have the benefit of being able to wait for opportunity to come along.

 

The Cubs management has a responsibility to make this team as good as possible now.

[neely crenshaw]

I heard the same thing in November, I heard the same thing before the winter meeting. I heard the same thing during the winter meetings. I heard the same thing in April, May, June and July last season. I heard the same thing last offseason. I've heard about the need to be patient for years. The time for patience was 94-99, when Andy was overhauling a joke of a franchise. This team is no longer a joke. This team no longer has the excuse that the previous management group bled the franchise dry. This management team doesn't have the benefit of patience. It's now or never, do or die, or whatever else you want to say.

 

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march....

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

And please, don't give me your opinion, I would like just the facts. :D

 

I don't understand. Do you want the Cubs to make a move right now or would you be ok if they waited until just before Spring Training as long as it's a quality player?

 

fact is..i do not care when they sign. the other fact is hendry has proven time and again that we should expect any move. the longer we wait, the less likely we get anyone of consequence. yeah we got a quality player late last year in burnitz....there are not many options out there and there will be far less in january,febrauary, march....

[BigbadB]

Hey, while we patiently wait, I have a fun piece history to share. Not sure if it's a record or not, but.........

 

 

Herb Washington appeared in 105 regular season games and another 5 playoff/world series games over a 2 year span with the Oakland A's in the early 70's, and not once did he ever come to the plate for an at bat.

 

And he wasn't a pitcher.

 

I remember him. I always thought he was Claudell Washington's brother. However, I'm not sure whether he really was or not. He was fast. That's it. However, he was not so good at stealing bases. 31 steals in 48 attempts.

 

A "player" who never pitched and never came to the plate in his entire career with a World Series ring. Guess we couldn't have been so lucky if the Cubs won the World Series with Jose Macias on the team. :D

 

I do wonder if this has happened to anyone else?

[CuseCubFan69]

Hey, while we patiently wait, I have a fun piece history to share. Not sure if it's a record or not, but.........

 

 

Herb Washington appeared in 105 regular season games and another 5 playoff/world series games over a 2 year span with the Oakland A's in the early 70's, and not once did he ever come to the plate for an at bat.

 

And he wasn't a pitcher.

 

I remember him. I always thought he was Claudell Washington's brother. However, I'm not sure whether he really was or not. He was fast. That's it. However, he was not so good at stealing bases. 31 steals in 48 attempts.

 

A "player" who never pitched and never came to the plate in his entire career with a World Series ring. Guess we couldn't have been so lucky if the Cubs won the World Series with Jose Macias on the team. :D

 

I do wonder if this has happened to anyone else?

 

Wow, that is a blast from the past. I remember Herbs baseball card with him in the leadoff postion.

[HoopsCubs]

I am as impatient as anyone out there, but maybe we need to realize that it is only December 15th and that a lot of things could happen in the next 6-7 weeks (or even into spring training). After the holidays, teams could realize that they need to make the trade that they're sitting on right now. Situations change that might make a GM rethink trade offers. What if some of the players in the World Classic get injured? If the Mets manage to get Manny, Floyd becomes available. If Tejada gets traded, some other team might feel the need to make a deal. I still think there is a decent chance we could get Huff, Lugo, Green, Nixon, Mench, Wilkerson, or Kearns. I still think there is a slight chance of us getting Tejada or Floyd. Unfortunately, a lot of us would sleep a little better if we had one or more of those players on the team today.

 

Near as I can tell, the Cubs have 5 trade chips on the 40 man roster, who I would consider ML ready, and who I think Hendry is willing to trade: Corey Patterson, Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston, Rich Hill and Glendon Rusch. I guess we can add Ronny Cedeno to the list, if the trade is for another SS. What combination of those players would net us the OFs you have listed above?

[JeffH]

I am as impatient as anyone out there, but maybe we need to realize that it is only December 15th and that a lot of things could happen in the next 6-7 weeks (or even into spring training). After the holidays, teams could realize that they need to make the trade that they're sitting on right now. Situations change that might make a GM rethink trade offers. What if some of the players in the World Classic get injured? If the Mets manage to get Manny, Floyd becomes available. If Tejada gets traded, some other team might feel the need to make a deal. I still think there is a decent chance we could get Huff, Lugo, Green, Nixon, Mench, Wilkerson, or Kearns. I still think there is a slight chance of us getting Tejada or Floyd. Unfortunately, a lot of us would sleep a little better if we had one or more of those players on the team today.

 

Near as I can tell, the Cubs have 5 trade chips on the 40 man roster, who I would consider ML ready, and who I think Hendry is willing to trade: Corey Patterson, Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston, Rich Hill and Glendon Rusch. I guess we can add Ronny Cedeno to the list, if the trade is for another SS. What combination of those players would net us the OFs you have listed above?

 

Do we believe that Hendry is unwilling to trade Jerome Williams?

[HoopsCubs]

I am as impatient as anyone out there, but maybe we need to realize that it is only December 15th and that a lot of things could happen in the next 6-7 weeks (or even into spring training). After the holidays, teams could realize that they need to make the trade that they're sitting on right now. Situations change that might make a GM rethink trade offers. What if some of the players in the World Classic get injured? If the Mets manage to get Manny, Floyd becomes available. If Tejada gets traded, some other team might feel the need to make a deal. I still think there is a decent chance we could get Huff, Lugo, Green, Nixon, Mench, Wilkerson, or Kearns. I still think there is a slight chance of us getting Tejada or Floyd. Unfortunately, a lot of us would sleep a little better if we had one or more of those players on the team today.

 

Near as I can tell, the Cubs have 5 trade chips on the 40 man roster, who I would consider ML ready, and who I think Hendry is willing to trade: Corey Patterson, Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston, Rich Hill and Glendon Rusch. I guess we can add Ronny Cedeno to the list, if the trade is for another SS. What combination of those players would net us the OFs you have listed above?

 

Do we believe that Hendry is unwilling to trade Jerome Williams?

 

I was on the bubble with him. I get the sense that Hendry really sees him as a solid 4th starter. But, there is no denying he's a trade chip, and maybe he's really not as untouchable as I think he might be.

[JeffH]

I've been operating under the assumption that Hendry is more willing to trade Williams than Hill.

 

I doubt that Williams is going to turn into the kind of pitcher that you deeply regret trading away.

 

I doubt that Hill is likely to, either, but I think there's a small chance that he could "Go Willis" on him and he's afraid to trade him except for a real difference maker. And there's the rub. He's probably not valuable enough to get you a difference maker, but he might be too valuable to trade for a Huff type.

 

If Williams is largely off-limits, I would imagine that that is largely at Dusty's request.

[Crash]

I am willing to wait until pitchers and catchers report. I hate to judge any off season until it is actually over. Timing of moves varies so much, espeically is a trade based market. So before getting angry about the off season as a whole I will let the off season end. Now does this offseason look particularly positive so far? No, but there is still time to save it.

[BigbadB]

Are Novoa, Wuertz, Ohman, Wellemeyer and Bartosh off limits as well? Do we still have Bartosh?

 

With Dempster, Eyre, Howry, Williamson and Rusch in the pen (assuming Williams is in the rotation and Wood is indeed ready to go at the start of the year), aren't some of these bullpen arms available?

 

Bartosh doesn't have much value, but he IS a lefty. :twisted: