Manny for Tejada offered per Boston Herald

[UK1679666180]

Just for speculation in an ideal world.

 

Let's say team A is going after Lugo and Abreu

 

Team B is going after Tejada and Bradley

 

Team C is going Tejada and Jones, Encarnacion, Sanders, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Team A spends likely the most financially b/c of Abreu's and Lugo's contract being slightly higher.

 

But, which team acquires the most talent between A & B? Which team has to get rid of the most players between A & B, while I assume ii would take more to get Tejada, what would be the difference in acquiring Lugo or Bradley?

 

Would it cost more to get Bradley and Tejada or Lugo and Abreu?

 

I have no idea.

[E.J.]

Baltimore Sun

 

Twenty four hours after stunning Orioles officials with a public request for a trade, All-Star shortstop Miguel Tejada still hasn't spoken to team executives, and a trade of the franchise's most celebrated player grows more possible by the day.

 

I'm liking what I'm hearing so far. Make it happen Hendry.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I think the AL teams are already priced out of it. Baltimore has enough trouble making the playoffs without strengthening another team they have to compete with, either for the division or a WC.

 

Are the Mets going to move Reyes to 2B, b/c Tejada isn't moving from SS. Who do they have left in their farm system? Milledge? If they start throwing his name out there, the price will definitely go up, but I'm pretty sure the Tejada bidding is going to start with Pie anyway (and a whole lot more). Once we reach the decision to part with top prospects, it's just a matter of haggling for the lesser guys.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, I just don't want to part with both of our top prospects (Pie and Hill). The way I see it, Pie is more easily replaceable as we can extend Pierre's contract or find someone else, whereas good pitchers are very hard to come by. The mets won't throw in Milledge I don't think. They seem to be very protective of him...

 

I think the Mets already offered Milledge to get Manny, so they're willing to part with him. The good thing is that if we really wanted to get Tejada, we probably could if we're just talking prospects (after the recent trades with Florida/NYM). If the Mets are willing to open up a hole in their starting lineup by trading Wright or Reyes, we're out of it.

Edited December 10, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[rawaction]

Just for speculation in an ideal world.

 

Let's say team A is going after Lugo and Abreu

 

Team B is going after Tejada and Bradley

 

Team C is going Tejada and Jones, Encarnacion, Sanders, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Team A spends likely the most financially b/c of Abreu's and Lugo's contract being slightly higher.

 

But, which team acquires the most talent between A & B? Which team has to get rid of the most players between A & B, while I assume ii would take more to get Tejada, what would be the difference in acquiring Lugo or Bradley?

 

Would it cost more to get Bradley and Tejada or Lugo and Abreu?

 

I have no idea.

 

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

[UK1679666180]

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

 

Which group would rather have between A & B?

 

Assuming, A is likely the most expensive both in salary and players to acquire.

 

B is more talented as I feel Bradley/Tejada>Lugo/Abreu.

 

But, B has the injury history of Bradley as well as his personality.

Edited December 10, 2005 by UK

[TXCubsFan]

Tejada for Hill/Guzman, EPatt/Walker, Pie, and Novoa/Wuertz. I don't see JH trading Murton or Cedeno. They seem to me to be heady ballplayers.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Baltimore Sun

 

Twenty four hours after stunning Orioles officials with a public request for a trade, All-Star shortstop Miguel Tejada still hasn't spoken to team executives, and a trade of the franchise's most celebrated player grows more possible by the day.

 

I'm liking what I'm hearing so far. Make it happen Hendry.

 

Please no Jim! I want to see Prior &/or Zambrano in a Cubs uniform next year!!

[Balsa]

 

Please no Jim! I want to see Prior &/or Zambrano in a Cubs uniform next year!!

I don't think you have any cause to worry about that.

 

Also, maybe the Orioles could sign Nomar? Then we wouldn't have to send Cedeno...

[rawaction]

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

 

Which group would rather have between A & B?

 

Assuming, A is likely the most expensive both in salary and players to acquire.

 

B is more talented as I feel Bradley/Tejada>Lugo/Abreu.

 

But, B has the injury history of Bradley as well as his personality.

 

Ok. I'm a dork. But I just estimated what the impact of Group A vs. Group B.

 

Combining Abreu and Lugo's numbers from last year, I got .291/.382/.438 for an OPS of .820. I took Tejada's numbers from last year, and took Bradley's 162 game average (since he hasn't played a full season), but gave him the .290 BA he had this year in LA (tough hitter's park). So, that gave Bradley a line of .290/.367/.467. Giving Group B a .298/.355/.493 for an OPS of .848.

 

So, technically, assuming healthy Tejada and Bradley might actually be more productive. Although, Abreu and Lugo help address the team's biggest weakness more. Of course, this little "study" did give Bradley the benefit of the doubt and didn't factor in that Abreu had one of his worst seasons in years and could rebound.

 

That said, I'd take group A if the cost was similar (prospects wise), because OBP, health, and Abreu's big LH bat.

Edited December 10, 2005 by rawaction

[dacheezwhiz]

not that i would mind if we traded cedeno for tejada, as tejada is surely worth it, but we could just trade walker instead as roberts also plays short and melvin mora is sort of a utility guy who I think could play short as well

 

btw...just so everyone knows im not insane, i realizwe that in addition to one of these player we will need to give pie and/or hill and much more. I wouldnt mind givingn both as I believe this whole offseason Hendry has been inflating the value of hill. It hink he is no better than pawalek, guzman, jerome williams and certainly has the most trade value

[CubinNY]

Are the Mets going to move Reyes to 2B, b/c Tejada isn't moving from SS. Who do they have left in their farm system? Milledge? If they start throwing his name out there, the price will definitely go up, but I'm pretty sure the Tejada bidding is going to start with Pie anyway (and a whole lot more). Once we reach the decision to part with top prospects, it's just a matter of haggling for the lesser guys.

 

If the Mets get Tejada Reyes would have to be sent to Baltimore along with a pitcher and another prospect. IMO, Reyes is on the Corey Patterson track. He was rushed to the majors, has great tools, and won't take a walk.

[UK1679666180]

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

 

Which group would rather have between A & B?

 

Assuming, A is likely the most expensive both in salary and players to acquire.

 

B is more talented as I feel Bradley/Tejada>Lugo/Abreu.

 

But, B has the injury history of Bradley as well as his personality.

 

Ok. I'm a dork. But I just estimated what the impact of Group A vs. Group B.

 

Combining Abreu and Lugo's numbers from last year, I got .291/.382/.438 for an OPS of .820. I took Tejada's numbers from last year, and took Bradley's 162 game average (since he hasn't played a full season), but gave him the .290 BA he had this year in LA (tough hitter's park). So, that gave Bradley a line of .290/.367/.467. Giving Group B a .298/.355/.493 for an OPS of .848.

 

So, technically, assuming healthy Tejada and Bradley might actually be more productive. Although, Abreu and Lugo help address the team's biggest weakness more. Of course, this little "study" did give Bradley the benefit of the doubt and didn't factor in that Abreu had one of his worst seasons in years and could rebound.

 

That said, I'd take group A if the cost was similar (prospects wise), because OBP, health, and Abreu's big LH bat.

 

I would take A as well, even though I'm concerned about Lugo regressing, even though he did change his approach.

 

Either way, if the stars could ever align like that, that would be the most balanced and productive line-up since the '84 lineup (even with Bowa's dead bat). Like the '84 line-up, it would have the potential to have 6 players with 80 RBIs, which is amazing.

[USSoccer]

Just my 2 cents, but if Hendry gets involved in this I see Williams and Hill, and then Harvey, Cedeno or Dope, and one of the pool of bulk relievers being his peak offer.

[CubinNY]

 

Either way, if the stars could ever align like that, that would be the most balanced and productive line-up since the '84 lineup (even with Bowa's dead bat). Like the '84 line-up, it would have the potential to have 6 players with 80 RBIs, which is amazing.

 

Not to try and hi-jack this thread. The 1984 Chicago Cubs were the best Cubs team in my lifetime (born in 1969). It is a pitty, as I think even if they could have gotten past San Deigo there was no team that was going to touch the Tigers that year.

 

------

I'll take Abreu and Lugo too.

[TXCubsFan]

Just my 2 cents, but if Hendry gets involved in this I see Williams and Hill, and then Harvey, Cedeno or Dope, and one of the pool of bulk relievers being his peak offer.

 

I think JH will save Williams for a trade for Vazquez.

[USSoccer]

Just my 2 cents, but if Hendry gets involved in this I see Williams and Hill, and then Harvey, Cedeno or Dope, and one of the pool of bulk relievers being his peak offer.

 

I think JH will save Williams for a trade for Vazquez.

 

Why would we trade a cheaper player for a more xpensive player that's no better than the one we have?

[UK1679666180]

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

 

Which group would rather have between A & B?

 

Assuming, A is likely the most expensive both in salary and players to acquire.

 

B is more talented as I feel Bradley/Tejada>Lugo/Abreu.

 

But, B has the injury history of Bradley as well as his personality.

 

Ok. I'm a dork. But I just estimated what the impact of Group A vs. Group B.

 

Combining Abreu and Lugo's numbers from last year, I got .291/.382/.438 for an OPS of .820. I took Tejada's numbers from last year, and took Bradley's 162 game average (since he hasn't played a full season), but gave him the .290 BA he had this year in LA (tough hitter's park). So, that gave Bradley a line of .290/.367/.467. Giving Group B a .298/.355/.493 for an OPS of .848.

 

So, technically, assuming healthy Tejada and Bradley might actually be more productive. Although, Abreu and Lugo help address the team's biggest weakness more. Of course, this little "study" did give Bradley the benefit of the doubt and didn't factor in that Abreu had one of his worst seasons in years and could rebound.

 

That said, I'd take group A if the cost was similar (prospects wise), because OBP, health, and Abreu's big LH bat.

 

Raw here's a quick way to use an adjusted OPS that makes up for the difference between OBP and SLG which incorrectly weighs in favor of SLG. This is one way to do it...

 

(.340 OBP is typically avg. and the standard for a decent OBP)

 

OBP+SLG+(OBP-.340)

 

Oddly enough, if you do that...

 

Both come out to .862 for OPS

 

As Abreu/Lugo have .042 added to OPS, while Tejada/Bradley have .015 added.

 

I'm a bigger dork.

[jmajew]

The Orioles will not trade Tejada unless they get a proven major leaguer in return. I think in order to get a deal done with the Orioles a three team deal would need to take place. The best third partner I can think of is Oakland and the deal would need to look something like this.

 

Oakland gets: Hill, Williams, Jay Gibbons

Baltimore gets: Zito, Cedeno, Patterson

Cubs get: Tejada

 

Then assuming we trade those four for Tejada there is no way we will trade for any RF. We will have to hope Bradley is let walk on the 20th and if he isn't we are looking at Encarnacion, Jones, Sanders, or Wilson in RF. I'm actually a big fan of Encarnacion if he bats no higher than 6th. Pierre, Walker, Lee, Ramirez, Tejada, Encarnacion, Barrett, Murton.

 

Edit: My point is this. The Cubs are not a good match. Hendry is going to have to get creative if he wants to land Tejada.

[rawaction]

Bradley's value keeps going up, but so does Lugo's as only Boston is without a legit SS candidate. It would be close, but because of the GMs, I would guess Abreu and Lugo would be more expensive to acquire.

 

Which group would rather have between A & B?

 

Assuming, A is likely the most expensive both in salary and players to acquire.

 

B is more talented as I feel Bradley/Tejada>Lugo/Abreu.

 

But, B has the injury history of Bradley as well as his personality.

 

Ok. I'm a dork. But I just estimated what the impact of Group A vs. Group B.

 

Combining Abreu and Lugo's numbers from last year, I got .291/.382/.438 for an OPS of .820. I took Tejada's numbers from last year, and took Bradley's 162 game average (since he hasn't played a full season), but gave him the .290 BA he had this year in LA (tough hitter's park). So, that gave Bradley a line of .290/.367/.467. Giving Group B a .298/.355/.493 for an OPS of .848.

 

So, technically, assuming healthy Tejada and Bradley might actually be more productive. Although, Abreu and Lugo help address the team's biggest weakness more. Of course, this little "study" did give Bradley the benefit of the doubt and didn't factor in that Abreu had one of his worst seasons in years and could rebound.

 

That said, I'd take group A if the cost was similar (prospects wise), because OBP, health, and Abreu's big LH bat.

 

Raw here's a quick way to use an adjusted OPS that makes up for the difference between OBP and SLG which incorrectly weighs in favor of SLG. This is one way to do it...

 

(.340 OBP is typically avg. and the standard for a decent OBP)

 

OBP+SLG+(OBP-.340)

 

Oddly enough, if you do that...

 

Both come out to .862 for OPS

 

As Abreu/Lugo have .042 added to OPS, while Tejada/Bradley have .015 added.

 

I'm a bigger dork.

 

Crap. I was actually looking for that formula (or similar) when I got sidetracked on Scottie Pippen.

[UK1679666180]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming Baker would start Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

Edited December 10, 2005 by UK

[USSoccer]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming baker would Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

 

Baker really does change almost every scenario the Cubs could have.

[CuseCubFan69]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming baker would Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

 

I'd be shocked if Perez isn't starting over Cedeno. Plus, add Murton to the "Young guy list" and Baker might have a stroke playing two young guys like that.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming Baker would start Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

 

So who are you willing to give up? Zambrano or Prior?

[UK1679666180]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming Baker would start Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

 

So who are you willing to give up? Zambrano or Prior?

 

Don't know, don't know what either team wants for them so it's impossible to gauge.

 

I'll let Hendry handle that aspect. :)

[CuseCubFan69]

One more side-topic, let's say they can only trade for either Abreu or Tejada...

 

Would you rather have Abreu and Cedeno or Tejada and Jones/Encarnacion, etc.

 

I would rather have Abreu and Cedeno assuming baker would Cedeno. If Baker started Perez, I'd rather see them go after Tejada and an overpaid RF'er.

 

Baker really does change almost every scenario the Cubs could have.

 

That's why it's so suprising to me that Sabean got rid of Baker. SF seems to have gotten older after Baker left and I would have thought it would been the other way around.

 

Dustyproofing a team just makes Cubs baseball a little less enjoyable.