Cubs Acquire Juan Pierre

[Tracer Bullet]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

I was hoping that Mitre would be in the trade and not Pinto or Nolassco! :D

 

ESPN is still reporting it as 3 for 1.

[USSoccer]

 

We're expecting a baby, so I spend a lot of my time taking care of her. I was up to get her ready for work, and decided to check on the Pierre thing really quick.

 

Needless to say, I didn't go back to sleep. :D

 

You're expecting a baby and you're still not sleeping? It's not going to get any better. Good luck!

 

That's what people keep telling me!! I haven't figured it out yet. We're just trying to make it through the morning sickness phase...

[Diffusion]

And really, what's the difference between hitting a double and hitting a single and then stealing second base? Again, near enough makes no odds, there isn't one. Do you not agree?

 

 

Not really. A double doesn't only get you to second, it pushes everybody else along at least two bases. A stolen base is worth a little more than half a total base.

 

True, but if there aren't any runners on to advance, as was the case in 66.1% of plate appearances for MLB leadoff hitters in 2005 (and almost certainly higher in the NL with the pitcher hitting 9th), then it doesn't make too much difference. So while I take your point that a stolen base probably isn't worth the same as a total base, and that therefore I was overstating Pierre's slugging, I'd argue that it's worth more than half a total base.

 

Also, Pierre's speed is dealt with in his batting average. If not for his speed, he'd hit .211 with no extra base hits. His leg doubles and triples are basically his entire isolated power. So his speed is well accounted for in the traditional stats.

 

All true. Got forbid the guy should suffer an injury that compromises his speed. It's his entire game. It's responsible for his entire average, the vast majority of his limited range, all of his power and, obviously, everything on the basepaths.

[DCNashville]

Marginal cost? You assume comparable players were available for lesser cost or better players for equal cost. I don't know that to be the case.

 

In the case of Milton Bradley, we know that a better player was available and at a much lower cost.

 

 

Really? The most recent reports have been Bradley for Zito. Is Zito really a lower cost than Mitre/Nolasco/Pinto?

[CubinNY]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

OK. That makes the trade a lttle better IMO. I still don't like Slappy though. But at least the Cubs didn't give up too much. Two marginal minor leaguers are better than three.

[tgk]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

I was hoping that Mitre would be in the trade and not Pinto or Nolassco! :D

 

ESPN is still reporting it as 3 for 1.

 

Andl the websites of the Trib, Daily Herald and Suntimes all still say a deal is close. The DH and Suntimes are last night's stories but the Tribune's site was updated at 7:43 a.m. It says the Marlins are looking for a better offer than the 3 - 1 from another team. If one organization would know what the Cubs are doing, it should be the Tribune, at least that would make sense.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/

 

I think we are gonig to have to wait this one out a little while longer. It will probably end up being the 3-1, but we'll have to wait for some confirmation.

[fiver]

I have a meeting in about ten minutes and don't have time to read through the entire thread right now, but Dan Jennings (assistant GM of the Marlins) did an interview with our local ESPN radio affiliate this morning and confirmed that the deal was for Pinto, Nolasco, and Mitre. There is no prospect from Florida coming back to the Cubbies in this deal.

 

I'm sure that many here believe that we overpaid for Pierre, but one has to consider that Hendry probably HAS to make the playoffs this season to keep his job. He already had to pass on Furcal b/c of the gargantuan contract that the Dodgers offerred.

 

I've personally seen Pinto and Nolasco pitch for the DiamondJaxx, and they were both very good. However, I'm not sold that any of the three will stay afloat in the big show. Were either Pinto or Nolasco Rule 5 eligible?

[Careless]

Marginal cost? You assume comparable players were available for lesser cost or better players for equal cost. I don't know that to be the case.

 

In the case of Milton Bradley, we know that a better player was available and at a much lower cost.

 

 

Really? The most recent reports have been Bradley for Zito. Is Zito really a lower cost than Mitre/Nolasco/Pinto?

The most recent reports have the A's showing no interest in such a trade

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Were either Pinto or Nolasco Rule 5 eligible?

No they were protected on the 40 man roster

[Diffusion]

I think that it is somewhat unfair to critczise Pierre for his caught stealings subtracted from his OBP stat, as when you think about it, his primary goal will be to get to first base, as having Walker, Lee, Ramirez, and hopefully another big bat behind them coming up in the order, runs will follow.

 

What? Runs will only follow if Juan Pierre is still on the bases to score them when Walker, Lee and Ramirez come up to hit. If he gets thrown out caught stealing, that's obviously not the case. So how on earth is penalising him for the caught stealings somewhat unfair?

 

And let's not pretend that Pierre hasn't hit in front of good hitters before - Castillo, Cabrera, Delgado. Strangely, the runs didn't follow then. Pierre scored just 96 runs in 2005 despite playing everyday. Perhaps because his effective OBP was only a sliver over .300, no?

 

Finally, the primary goal of Juan Pierre should be to score runs, not to get to first base. Getting to first base is just the first step, albeit a crucial one. The second step is to not get thrown out trying to steal second such that you might as well never have been on the bases at all.

[Tracer Bullet]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

I was hoping that Mitre would be in the trade and not Pinto or Nolassco! :D

 

ESPN is still reporting it as 3 for 1.

 

Andl the websites of the Trib, Daily Herald and Suntimes all still say a deal is close. The DH and Suntimes are last night's stories but the Tribune's site was updated at 7:43 a.m. It says the Marlins are looking for a better offer than the 3 - 1 from another team. If one organization would know what the Cubs are doing, it should be the Tribune, at least that would make sense.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/

 

I think we are gonig to have to wait this one out a little while longer. It will probably end up being the 3-1, but we'll have to wait for some confirmation.

 

So I can still pray that the Yankees will come in and overpay by more than we did?

[moorecg]

Has anyone looked at his 3 year average for obp during day games?

 

.395 :shock: :shock: :D

 

Maybe Jim knew what he was doing afterall.

 

Ok...I know it's not that cool to quote your own quote...but since nobody responded earlier (and it was posted real early this morning when I was at home) I thought I'd throw this number back up there for discussion when people were actually on the site.

 

.395 opb in day games over a 3 year stretch has to be a good thing for us doesn't it? Especially when that includes last year which everyone seems to harp on him having a bad year.

 

If he gives us that in day games and just .320 in night games its a marked improvement from last year.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I went to bed hoping this rumor wasn't true. Oh well. Pierre will be OK in 2006. He isn't ideal and we paid way to much considering that he is a one year rental, but Hendry was desparate after losing out on furcal. Of the two, I'll take Pierre even though it cost us Mitre, Pinto, and Nolasco. He's only around for one year (not 5). I'll comfort myself with that. Hopefully he's gone with Baker and Hendry.

[Diffusion]

I'm curious what Pierre's AVG would be if he bunted every time?

 

What's his batting average when he does bunt?

 

I'm not sure that's relevant. The bunt is easy to defend against if you're expecting it. And if Pierre bunts every single time, then obviously you're going to expect it. It's only when the bunt is unexpected that it's a useful tool for stealing first base.

[tgk]

 

We're expecting a baby, so I spend a lot of my time taking care of her. I was up to get her ready for work, and decided to check on the Pierre thing really quick.

 

Needless to say, I didn't go back to sleep. :D

 

You're expecting a baby and you're still not sleeping? It's not going to get any better. Good luck!

 

That's what people keep telling me!! I haven't figured it out yet. We're just trying to make it through the morning sickness phase...

 

A little advice from someone with two small children.

 

First, make the effort to help out with the midnight feedings early on, it will buy you bonus points later. This is much easier if you're bottle feeding. What really blows is when the baby is nursing and she wants you to stay up for company. I found that very difficult.

 

Second, and this is especially important once the child is old enough to be in a normal bed, make sure the your wife sleeps on the side of the bed in a direct line to the child. Inevitably, the toddlers will wake up and want their Momma, if they don't have to crawl over you there is a fair shot you can sleep through it. :P

 

And one last thing, at least consider the lifetime of anguish you are inflicting upon the child before buying the Cubs baby clothes. I did it anyway and I just pray they'll forgive me one day.

[Lefty]

 

That's the problem/opportunity. Anyhting is an improvement over last year.

[Diffusion]

Marginal cost? You assume comparable players were available for lesser cost or better players for equal cost. I don't know that to be the case.

 

In the case of Milton Bradley, we know that a better player was available and at a much lower cost.

 

 

Really? The most recent reports have been Bradley for Zito. Is Zito really a lower cost than Mitre/Nolasco/Pinto?

 

The rumour was Barry Zito for Milton Bradley, Joel Guzman and Edwin Jackson. And it was the A's that offered it.

[JeffH]

Were either Pinto or Nolasco Rule 5 eligible?

No they were protected on the 40 man roster

 

For future reference, players who are eligible for the Rule 5 draft cannot be traded (except as a PTBNL) between the time that minor league rosters are "frozen" (November 18th this year) and the Rule 5 draft (December 8th this year).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

It does make the deal better, but I would have preferred it to say that either Nolassco or Pinto were not a part of the deal.

[Guest]

I'm curious what Pierre's AVG would be if he bunted every time?

In 2004 Pierre hit .380 in (non-sacrifice) bunt attempts. In 2005 he hit .431 when bunting for a hit.

[Diffusion]

Cubs | More On Pierre Trade

Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:20:00 -0800

 

Clarifying and updating a previous item, cubs.MLB.com's Carrie Muskat is reporting the Chicago Cubs have acquired OF Juan Pierre and an unnamed pitching prospect from the Florida Marlins in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto. Cubs P Sergio Mitre is not considered part of this trade.

 

KFFL.com

 

That would change things quite a bit...No Mitre, plus we get someone else?

 

It does make the deal better, but I would have preferred it to say that either Nolassco or Pinto were not a part of the deal.

 

I might be able to stomach Pinto/Nolasco and Mitre for Pierre and a decent Marlins pitching prospect.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

I'm curious what Pierre's AVG would be if he bunted every time?

In 2004 Pierre hit .380 in (non-sacrifice) bunt attempts. In 2005 he hit .431 when bunting for a hit.

 

This is interesting stat:

We know Dusty likes guys who can excute a bunt.

The tall grass in the Wrigley field IF will only help Pierre.

[BigbadB]

Anybody want to help me promote this deal?

 

Pierre and a pitching prospect to the Yankees.

Carl Pavano to the Phillies.

Bobby Abreu to the Cubs.

 

Patterson to LA for Bradley.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm curious what Pierre's AVG would be if he bunted every time?

In 2004 Pierre hit .380 in (non-sacrifice) bunt attempts. In 2005 he hit .431 when bunting for a hit.

 

And he hit .276 overall in 2005. So his AVG when he doesn't bunt has got to be simply horrible.

[Banedon]

I'm curious what Pierre's AVG would be if he bunted every time?

In 2004 Pierre hit .380 in (non-sacrifice) bunt attempts. In 2005 he hit .431 when bunting for a hit.

 

And he hit .276 overall in 2005. So his AVG when he doesn't bunt has got to be simply horrible.

 

Gotta swing away occassionally to keep the infield honest though.