tommorow by noon

[Neuby]

Hopefully Furcal takes are offer at 10 million tommorrow

then Hendry can focous on going after Bradley for Center field.

Sign either Burnett or Washburn to fill out the rotation , I think one of them ends up with the Cardinials.

Go get that big bat for right field Abreu, Ramirez( my pipe dream), Dunn , at this point I would also take a look at Soranio.

[Blueheart05]

I hope Cedeno is better than DuBois, Choi, Hill, Kelton, whoever that rule 5 relief pitcher that everyone loved-Jason (MIT)?, turned out to be.

But when you have a huge hole to fill, I'll take a proven player rather than rolling the dice.

 

Ronny is murding the pitching in Venzeula this Winter. I'd say he is going to be able to fill SS if need be.

 

He started slowly but he has caught fire. I still feel he will start at 2B (unless a trade occurs) if Furcal signs. It doesn't matter that he hasn't planned the position this winter he's young and can adapt to change.

 

I really don't want him at 2B. I'd actually rather have Walker or even Soriano. He could be a very usefull SS but I think he loses a lot of value if you move him to 2B.

 

Well, IF the Cubs have Furcal, and you want Ronnie to see the light of day, it will be at 2B. I doubt Walker will be on the open day roster and Soriano is just not necessary (and his defense is MIA)..

 

I want Ronnie to start too but the least complicated current senario is at 2B. We'll see how things workout tomorrow

 

Don't you think that could hurt the offense? That's just another position that would most likely give us a below .800 OPS. I would feel more comfortable with some more offense coming from 2B. I think Ronny should be traded if we sign Furcal.

 

Actually, I'm not opposed to Cedeno being traded although, I would like to see him play as a Cub. If the right deal became available he's expendable.

 

To answer your OPS question, no, I don't think it would hurt to have another guy in the lineup with a sub .800 OPS. It's misleading.

 

I hate to bring this up because there are several winning formulas but the White Sox won a WS with only two starters (Konerko & Dye) and only three total players (including Thomas) with an OPS above .800. A team can win with low offensive numbers. Timely hitting, base stealing, and taking a walk are far more important.

[Warpticon]

For his career Frucal has a 78% SB/CS.

 

If one wants to say the break even rate is 75% then his speed is slighlty valuable as it relates to stolen bases. If one wants to use 80% he has negative value, as it relates to stolen bases. So, perhaps his speed is marginally usefull.

 

Okay, how has nobody pointed out that it's only as low as 78% because of one particularly bad year, and that it hasn't dipped below 82% in any year for the past three?

[Blueheart05]

For his career Frucal has a 78% SB/CS.

 

If one wants to say the break even rate is 75% then his speed is slighlty valuable as it relates to stolen bases. If one wants to use 80% he has negative value, as it relates to stolen bases. So, perhaps his speed is marginally usefull.

 

Okay, how has nobody pointed out that it's only as low as 78% because of one particularly bad year, and that it hasn't dipped below 82% in any year for the past three?

 

I was going to but it wasn't that important. He was under .500 one year stealing. I noticed it when I looked at his number earlier. The guy is a good base stealer. That's been acknowledged.

[CubinNY]

For his career Frucal has a 78% SB/CS.

 

If one wants to say the break even rate is 75% then his speed is slighlty valuable as it relates to stolen bases. If one wants to use 80% he has negative value, as it relates to stolen bases. So, perhaps his speed is marginally usefull.

 

Okay, how has nobody pointed out that it's only as low as 78% because of one particularly bad year, and that it hasn't dipped below 82% in any year for the past three?

 

b/c I capitualted a page or two back.

 

Is he worth 13 mill year for the next 4?

[fearthecubs]

For the last time - what do you care about finances for!? We're owned by a multi-BILLION dollar company! Go to a Cardinals board of you want to whine and complain over signing the best FA available to the Cubs.

[CubinNY]

For the last time - what do you care about finances for!? We're owned by a multi-BILLION dollar company! Go to a Cardinals board of you want to whine and complain over signing the best FA available to the Cubs.

 

Go to one of your cafe's in China if you don't want a free discussion of ideas.

 

Furcal is hardly the best free agent available to the Cubs.

[fearthecubs]

For the last time - what do you care about finances for!? We're owned by a multi-BILLION dollar company! Go to a Cardinals board of you want to whine and complain over signing the best FA available to the Cubs.

 

Go to one of your cafe's in China if you don't want a free discussion of ideas.

 

Furcal is hardly the best free agent available to the Cubs.

 

No - it's ridiculous. RIDICULOUS. People just want to complain. Don't ANY of you remember the days where the Cubs were satisified with Jeff Blauser being their big acquisition?

[JC]

For the last time - what do you care about finances for!? We're owned by a multi-BILLION dollar company! Go to a Cardinals board of you want to whine and complain over signing the best FA available to the Cubs.

 

Another deeply thought out post about financial responsibility.

[UK1679666180]

Cubs have a budget, it exists.

 

I can't pretend that a move that would likely absorb 10% of the payroll doesn't impact how the remaining 90% is spent both in the short and long terms.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I don't understand all the wasted bandwidth about Cedeno, Furcal, Walker, blah blah blah....we have Neifi Perez and Jose Macias, those guys are proven veterans that can play multiple positions, and they're gamers, dude. Did you know they can switch-hit, too? And they run the bases smart. I would save a bunch of money and just go with Perez and Macias as my double-play combination. Dudes can catch the ball.

[Drew Doughty]

They don't clog up the bases, that's for sure.

[A New Era]

 

b/c I capitualted a page or two back.

 

Is he worth 13 mill year for the next 4?

 

You keep saying this so I'll step up. NO, he is NOT worth 13 mil a year. But we aren't the ones offering him that much. We are offering 10 (TEN) TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN mil a year. Stop with this 13 nonsense. If the Dodgers want to offer that much then they can take him.

 

Anyway, is he worth 10 (TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN), for the next 5 years? YES. Now, you tell me all the reasons why you think he is NOT worth 10 and I will rebute with why I think he IS worth 10. If you want an arguement, you got it. You begin.

[fearthecubs]

For the last time - what do you care about finances for!? We're owned by a multi-BILLION dollar company! Go to a Cardinals board of you want to whine and complain over signing the best FA available to the Cubs.

 

Another deeply thought out post about financial responsibility.

 

Hey thanks for speaking to me on such an even and non-condescending tone, I appreciate it.

[fearthecubs]

 

b/c I capitualted a page or two back.

 

Is he worth 13 mill year for the next 4?

 

You keep saying this so I'll step up. NO, he is NOT worth 13 mil a year. But we aren't the ones offering him that much. We are offering 10 (TEN) TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN mil a year. Stop with this 13 nonsense. If the Dodgers want to offer that much then they can take him.

 

Anyway, is he worth 10 (TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN), for the next 5 years? YES. Now, you tell me all the reasons why you think he is NOT worth 10 and I will rebute with why I think he IS worth 10. If you want an arguement, you got it. You begin.

 

Furcal is worth 10, and I'd pay that. He isn't worht 13, but I'd pay that too.

 

ONE HUNDRED YEARS SINCE A CHAMPIONSHIP! That's all that matters, not sitting at home thinking you're oh-so-smart because you have all the Cubs financial details worked out from your recliner.

[Guest]

Bob, you rule. You find out all sorts of stuff that I have no idea how to work out.

I do what I can. ;)

 

I would be HUGELY interested in a base/out breakdown for every single lineup position for, say, 2003-05.

 

EG, how often did an NL hitter batting seventh come up with men on first and third with two outs for 2003-05?

 

If you want to PM me that kind of stuff, or link to a place where I can work it out for myself, that'd be awesome.

Here's what I got for the base-out breakdown for leadoff hitters in 2005:

 

          0       1       2
ooo     40.7%   14.0%   11.4%
oox      3.9%    4.5%    4.6%
oxo      1.0%    2.6%    3.9%
oxx      0.8%    1.7%    2.5%
xoo      0.1%    0.9%    1.4%
xox      0.3%    0.7%    1.2%
xxo      0.1%    0.9%    1.0%
xxx      0.2%    0.6%    1.0%

"o" means the base is empty, "x" means it is occupied. The bases, from left to right, are third, second, first. (So "oxx" would mean there were runners on first and second, while "xoo" meant there was a runner on third.) Let me know if you'd like me to keep working on the other lineup positions/seasons or if you want me to send you the data so you can play around with it to your heart's content.

[CubinNY]

 

b/c I capitualted a page or two back.

 

Is he worth 13 mill year for the next 4?

 

You keep saying this so I'll step up. NO, he is NOT worth 13 mil a year. But we aren't the ones offering him that much. We are offering 10 (TEN) TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN mil a year. Stop with this 13 nonsense. If the Dodgers want to offer that much then they can take him.

 

Anyway, is he worth 10 (TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN), for the next 5 years? YES. Now, you tell me all the reasons why you think he is NOT worth 10 and I will rebute with why I think he IS worth 10. If you want an arguement, you got it. You begin.

 

He is not worth 10 for 5 b/c he plays shortstop and is not a difference maker

 

He not worth 10 for 5 b/c that is roughly 10% of of the budget

 

he is not woth 10 for 5 b/c he will be not be able to carry the team

 

He is not worth 10 for 5 b/c the Cubs have a guy who will produce a large fraction of his numbers for a small fraction of the price

 

He is simply not a difference make and he wiill be the second highest paid Cub on the team

 

The Cubs will have to give raises to Aramis, Lee, Prior, and Z in the next couple of years. The Cubs sign him to a 10 for 5 contract and one or two of those guys are not going to be around.

 

He is not worth that amount of money.

 

Your turn.

 

Edit: the point is moot. But go on ahead if you really want to. I am interested in your thoughts.

[A New Era]

I don't know how to do the multiple quotes but I want to respond to each so please look in the quote.

If you want to teach me how in the meantime, great.

 

 

b/c I capitualted a page or two back.

 

Is he worth 13 mill year for the next 4?

 

You keep saying this so I'll step up. NO, he is NOT worth 13 mil a year. But we aren't the ones offering him that much. We are offering 10 (TEN) TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN mil a year. Stop with this 13 nonsense. If the Dodgers want to offer that much then they can take him.

 

Anyway, is he worth 10 (TEN TEN TEN TEN TEN), for the next 5 years? YES. Now, you tell me all the reasons why you think he is NOT worth 10 and I will rebute with why I think he IS worth 10. If you want an arguement, you got it. You begin.

 

He is not worth 10 for 5 b/c he plays shortstop and is not a difference maker

 

I beg to disagree.

 

He not worth 10 for 5 b/c that is roughly 10% of of the budget

 

Who's to say the trib didn't up the budget to $110 mil?

 

he is not woth 10 for 5 b/c he will be not be able to carry the team

 

Agreed he is not a man to carry the team.

 

He is not worth 10 for 5 b/c the Cubs have a guy who will produce a large fraction of his numbers for a small fraction of the price

 

Yes but that man will not bat infront of D Lee because we have Dusty as manager.

 

He is simply not a difference make and he wiill be the second highest paid Cub on the team

 

The Cubs will have to give raises to Aramis, Lee, Prior, and Z in the next couple of years. The Cubs sign him to a 10 for 5 contract and one or two of those guys are not going to be around.

 

Woods $11 mil (or around) and Maddux $9 mil (or around) will be off the blocks and I would say those are 2 who we are vastely overpaying.

 

He is not worth that amount of money.

 

Your turn.

 

 

Sorry I couldn't make that a little cleaner. Anyway, here are some reasons why he is worth $10 mil.

 

We are overpaying Maddux and Wood and their collective $20 mil will be off the blocks for 2007 where we could probably get to VERY GOOD solid #3 and #4 pitchers under Prior and Zam for much less than $20 mil and still have money left over for raises.

 

As FeartheCubs has said, we ARE in a window with pitchers and power players who we are underpaying, we need to go for a championship NOW, and you do that with Furcal, not with Cedeno.

 

Furcal brings around 50 stolen bases a year and that's something we haven't had in a long time. It's my firm beleif that having someone on 1st like that does shake up the pitcher and can lead to less effective picthing.

 

He brings a very solid (near GG) defense to SS that could help turn more double plays.

 

He has a .352 carreer OBP and if we don't get him we will have someone batting infront of lee who has a carreer .298 OBP.

 

We have to build around our star studs Zam, Lee, and Aram. Short Stop is NOT an area where many power hitting sluggers bat from. And for a SHORT STOP, Furcal is one of the top SS in the NL wouldn't that look great next to Lee and Aram production wise.

[NCCubFan]

I've split the tangent and sent it to Social. I'll lock this thread since the Furcal discussion has moved to another thread anyway.