Gut feeling: Are we headed for a worst-case scenario?

[RynoRules]

Now that several trades have been made and Furcal has begun to drag his feet, I have been getting a very uneasy feeling about this offseason. I wonder if Furcal is simply using both us and LA to drive up the price in Atl. I wonder if JH has missed out on all realistic trade opportunities that would truly benefit this team.

 

Like many of you, I am not wild about a deal for Mench and Soriano, and I do not think that Bradley by himself will reverse our fortunes. As I mentioned in the Furcal thread, "I have a bad feeling about this." Jacque Jones bad.

 

Anyone else think this might be the end result?:

 

Perez (2B)

Bradley

Lee

Ramirez

Jacque Jones

Murton

Barret

Cedeno

[Derwood]

There is no way Dusty plays both Murton and Cedeno every day. Replace Murton with Mabry and Cedeno with Macias, and THAT is the worst case scenario

[CubbieSouthpaw]

Now that several trades have been made and Furcal has begun to drag his feet, I have been getting a very uneasy feeling about this offseason. I wonder if Furcal is simply using both us and LA to drive up the price in Atl. I wonder if JH has missed out on all realistic trade opportunities that would truly benefit this team.

 

Like many of you, I am not wild about a deal for Mench and Soriano, and I do not think that Bradley by himself will reverse our fortunes. As I mentioned in the Furcal thread, "I have a bad feeling about this." Jacque Jones bad.

 

Anyone else think this might be the end result?:

 

Perez (2B)

Bradley

Lee

Ramirez

Jacque Jones

Murton

Barret

Cedeno

 

I don't see Cedeno and Murton playing everyday together and Perez can't last a full season playing everyday. Plus the fact he's barely an average player for the bench.

Jones (according to the media) is probably headed to KC because of their offer. Hendry needs to be comitted if he even comes close to matching KC's offer of 6M.

My feeling is Furcal makes up his mind today. No basis on that, just a gut feeling.

 

Lets give it a few more days to see what floats to the top before the winter meetings.

[RynoRules]

I hope you are right. I have constantly advocated not pushing the panic button too early. Now I feel like those monkeys in that old Capital One commercial...

[gflore34]

As far as SS we might as well accept the worst case scenario - Nefi is going to be there on opening day and quite probably hitting 1 or 2. If Furcal was truely interested in the Cubs he'd signed by now, the money the Cubs offered was more than fair. He wanted to remain with Atlanta all along, the Cubs and Dodgers were used to squeeze a few more dollars out of the Braves.

[Roast]

Yea, I am starting to feel uneasy, also. Since Giles is off the market, if we want to improve our team through free agency we HAVE to sign Furcal. We all know this. And unfortunatley so does Furcal and his agent. Right now I am still hopeful that we can sign furcal. However, if he doesnt sign here in the next 48 hours I will start to get very concerned.

 

If we miss out on furcal what are our options then?

 

Nomar- Sign him to a low base-high incentive contract based on PA's.

 

Cedeno- Give him the job, full time. Which means we really need a stud outfielder even more. Our choices there would have to come via trade, Such as:

 

Abreu - The chances he's traded have become more unlikely thanks to the Thome deal.

 

ManRam- We'd have to pay alot of his contract probably, which is fine since we do have a good chunk of change just sitting around.

 

Dunn - Another good choice, however, does Cincy even want to trade him?

 

The problem, to me, is that if we miss out on the FA market, then we will have to grossly overpay to get players through trade. Other teams arent stupid, they'll know we're in Panic mode. And they will surely use that to make us overpay. So yah, i'm getting worried.

[RynoRules]

Yea, I am starting to feel uneasy, also. Since Giles is off the market, if we want to improve our team through free agency we HAVE to sign Furcal. We all know this. And unfortunatley so does Furcal and his agent. Right now I am still hopeful that we can sign furcal. However, if he doesnt sign here in the next 48 hours I will start to get very concerned.

 

If we miss out on furcal what are our options then?

 

Nomar- Sign him to a low base-high incentive contract based on PA's.

 

Cedeno- Give him the job, full time. Which means we really need a stud outfielder even more. Our choices there would have to come via trade, Such as:

 

Abreu - The chances he's traded have become more unlikely thanks to the Thome deal.

 

ManRam- We'd have to pay alot of his contract probably, which is fine since we do have a good chunk of change just sitting around.

 

Dunn - Another good choice, however, does Cincy even want to trade him?

 

The problem, to me, is that if we miss out on the FA market, then we will have to grossly overpay to get players through trade. Other teams arent stupid, they'll know we're in Panic mode. And they will surely use that to make us overpay. So yah, i'm getting worried.

 

Yup. What Roast said.

 

Again, I am trying not to panic, but if we are in a spot where we have to make trades to improve ...

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

That's the biggest problem with targeting a bigger name FA as your number one priority. The dominoes fall after he makes his decision, which usually eats up a good chunk of time. Hendry must have known this, so hopefully he has something big in the works if Furcal falls through.

[HoopsCubs]

That's the biggest problem with targeting a bigger name FA as your number one priority. The dominoes fall after he makes his decision, which usually eats up a good chunk of time. Hendry must have known this, so hopefully he has something big in the works if Furcal falls through.

 

One of my trusted sources told me yesterday he has great confidence that Hendry has contingency plans in place if Furcal and Pierre fall through.

[USSoccer]

That's the biggest problem with targeting a bigger name FA as your number one priority. The dominoes fall after he makes his decision, which usually eats up a good chunk of time. Hendry must have known this, so hopefully he has something big in the works if Furcal falls through.

 

One of my trusted sources told me yesterday he has great confidence that Hendry has contingency plans in place if Furcal and Pierre fall through.

 

I have confidence that he has contingency plans as well. What I don't have confidence in is the quality of said plans. :P

[TB_11]

That's the biggest problem with targeting a bigger name FA as your number one priority. The dominoes fall after he makes his decision, which usually eats up a good chunk of time. Hendry must have known this, so hopefully he has something big in the works if Furcal falls through.

 

One of my trusted sources told me yesterday he has great confidence that Hendry has contingency plans in place if Furcal and Pierre fall through.

 

Sounds like Mench and Soriano........

[HoopsCubs]

I have confidence that he has contingency plans as well. What I don't have confidence in is the quality of said plans. :P

 

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. And, I'm pretty sure most here won't like Hendry's plans, which probably consist of toolsy players and speed guys on offense, and better pitching.

[USSoccer]

I have confidence that he has contingency plans as well. What I don't have confidence in is the quality of said plans. :P

 

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. And, I'm pretty sure most here won't like Hendry's plans, which probably consist of toolsy players and speed guys on offense, and better pitching.

 

Very true. I think I'd be happy as long as Opening Day rolls around and we have decent OBP guys batting 1-2 ahead of Lee and Ramirez. I've lowered my expectations of this winter greatly the last few days.

[RockTheIvy]

We could do waaaay worse IMO than Mench and Soriano.

 

One thing about Soriano. I believed he is overrated. But I actually think, because so many people hate his OBP and his defense, that he is actually a better player than given credit for, he has a career slugging of .500, which is damn good for a 2B. I think Goony has made the point that if he batted sixth he could be an asset. Again, I would rather have an infield of Neifi! and Soriano, than Neifi! and Cedeno. So a worst case scenario for me would be something like:

 

Walton CF

Rick Wrona C

Henry Rodriguez RF

Mitch Webster LF

Vance Law 3B

Doug Blauser SS

Julian Zuletta 1B

Damian Jackson 2B

 

:wink:

[USSoccer]

We could do waaaay worse IMO than Mench and Soriano.

 

One thing about Soriano. I believed he is overrated. But I actually think, because so many people hate his OBP and his defense, that he is actually a better player than given credit for, he has a career slugging of .500, which is damn good for a 2B. I think Goony has made the point that if he batted sixth he could be an asset. Again, I would rather have an infield of Neifi! and Soriano, than Neifi! and Cedeno. So a worst case scenario for me would be something like:

 

Walton CF

Rick Wrona C

Henry Rodriguez RF

Mitch Webster LF

Vance Law 3B

Doug Blauser SS

Julian Zuletta 1B

Damian Jackson 2B

 

:wink:

 

Soriano and Mench, used properly batting 5th and 6th, is fine, but it almost necessitates Murton batting 2nd (which if Dusty does I'll be stunned) and a leadoff hitter with OBP to then come from either SS or CF. We're likely not getting Furcal, so that leaves Neifi or Cedeno for SS (neither of whom are leadoff hitters) and so we'd probably bring back Kenny Lofton.

 

I'm not sure how I would feel about that:

 

Lofton

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Mench

Soriano

Barrett

Perez/Cedeno

[HoopsCubs]

Very true. I think I'd be happy as long as Opening Day rolls around and we have decent OBP guys batting 1-2 ahead of Lee and Ramirez. I've lowered my expectations of this winter greatly the last few days.

 

We're probably looking at:

 

- trading Walker for Bradley

- trading Corey and a prospect for Mench

- signing Lofton or trading for Roberts as 4th OF insurance

- signing Bill Mueller to play 2B

- signing another starting pitcher (Weaver, Byrd) knowing Kerry and Maddux are gone after 2006

 

The wild cards here could be expanding the Bradley deal to include Lowe, or making a big deal with Arizona for an OF (Shawn Green or Luis Gonzalez) and Javier Vazquez, or the Giants for Pedro Feliz and Jason Schmidt. The Cubs would then have the option of moving Lowe, Vazquez or Schmidt to Philly for Bobby Abreu, if he his actually being shopped by Pat Gillick for a front-line starter.

[RockTheIvy]

Very true. I think I'd be happy as long as Opening Day rolls around and we have decent OBP guys batting 1-2 ahead of Lee and Ramirez. I've lowered my expectations of this winter greatly the last few days.

 

We're probably looking at:

 

- trading Walker for Bradley

- trading Corey and a prospect for Mench

- signing Lofton or trading for Roberts as 4th OF insurance

- signing Bill Mueller to play 2B

- signing another starting pitcher (Weaver, Byrd) knowing Kerry and Maddux are gone after 2006

 

The wild cards here could be expanding the Bradley deal to include Lowe, or making a big deal with Arizona for an OF (Shawn Green or Luis Gonzalez) and Javier Vazquez, or the Giants for Pedro Feliz and Jason Schmidt. The Cubs would then have the option of moving Lowe, Vazquez or Schmidt to Philly for Bobby Abreu, if he his actually being shopped by Pat Gillick for a front-line starter.

 

I am actually a fan of getting Mueller for 2B. But would that be in line with the defensive upgrades Hendry has been wanting?

[USSoccer]

Very true. I think I'd be happy as long as Opening Day rolls around and we have decent OBP guys batting 1-2 ahead of Lee and Ramirez. I've lowered my expectations of this winter greatly the last few days.

 

We're probably looking at:

 

- trading Walker for Bradley

- trading Corey and a prospect for Mench

- signing Lofton or trading for Roberts as 4th OF insurance

- signing Bill Mueller to play 2B

- signing another starting pitcher (Weaver, Byrd) knowing Kerry and Maddux are gone after 2006

 

The wild cards here could be expanding the Bradley deal to include Lowe, or making a big deal with Arizona for an OF (Shawn Green or Luis Gonzalez) and Javier Vazquez, or the Giants for Pedro Feliz and Jason Schmidt. The Cubs would then have the option of moving Lowe, Vazquez or Schmidt to Philly for Bobby Abreu, if he his actually being shopped by Pat Gillick for a front-line starter.

 

-I like Walker for Bradley

-Corey and a Prospect for Mench is fine, depending on the prospect

-Lofton or Roberts are fine, although Dusty might find too many AB's for Roberts.

-Can Mueller play 2B?

-I'd rather have Weaver than Byrd.

[Fred Hornkohl]

We could do waaaay worse IMO than Mench and Soriano.

 

One thing about Soriano. I believed he is overrated. But I actually think, because so many people hate his OBP and his defense, that he is actually a better player than given credit for, he has a career slugging of .500, which is damn good for a 2B. I think Goony has made the point that if he batted sixth he could be an asset. Again, I would rather have an infield of Neifi! and Soriano, than Neifi! and Cedeno. So a worst case scenario for me would be something like:

 

Walton CF

Rick Wrona C

Henry Rodriguez RF

Mitch Webster LF

Vance Law 3B

Doug Blauser SS

Julian Zuletta 1B

Damian Jackson 2B

 

:wink:

 

That's Jeff Blauser and Julio Zuleta, ....but point taken, just the same.

[JeffH]

If a bunch of stuff falls through (heaven forbid) and the Cubs still have $10 left and nothing to really spend it on, Soriano could become a perverse kind of "Moneyball" acquisition.

 

Not in terms of good value per dollar, but in terms of good value for talent given in exchange.

 

If the Rangers get into a frame of mind where they want to move him just so they don't have to pay him and are willing to give him for garbage, he could become a decent (albeit overpaid) value-for-talent acquisition.

[RockTheIvy]

We could do waaaay worse IMO than Mench and Soriano.

 

One thing about Soriano. I believed he is overrated. But I actually think, because so many people hate his OBP and his defense, that he is actually a better player than given credit for, he has a career slugging of .500, which is damn good for a 2B. I think Goony has made the point that if he batted sixth he could be an asset. Again, I would rather have an infield of Neifi! and Soriano, than Neifi! and Cedeno. So a worst case scenario for me would be something like:

 

Walton CF

Rick Wrona C

Henry Rodriguez RF

Mitch Webster LF

Vance Law 3B

Doug Blauser SS

Julian Zuletta 1B

Damian Jackson 2B

 

:wink:

 

That's Jeff Blauser and Julio Zuleta, ....but point taken, just the same.

 

Oh god I'm older than I thought. And Dumber.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Oh god I'm older than I thought. And Dumber.

 

Now, I just don't want to hear that you're having senior moments, OK ?? :wink:

[Drew Doughty]

Mueller doesn't want to play 2B, I think. He said that recently after an offer from the Cardinals to play 2B, IIRC.

[da bears]

So are we all just assuming that Furcal will not sign with us now?

[Derwood]

We could do waaaay worse IMO than Mench and Soriano.

 

One thing about Soriano. I believed he is overrated. But I actually think, because so many people hate his OBP and his defense, that he is actually a better player than given credit for, he has a career slugging of .500, which is damn good for a 2B. I think Goony has made the point that if he batted sixth he could be an asset. Again, I would rather have an infield of Neifi! and Soriano, than Neifi! and Cedeno. So a worst case scenario for me would be something like:

 

Walton CF

Rick Wrona C

Henry Rodriguez RF

Mitch Webster LF

Vance Law 3B

Doug Blauser SS

Julian Zuletta 1B

Damian Jackson 2B

 

:wink:

 

That's Jeff Blauser and Julio Zuleta, ....but point taken, just the same.

 

Oh god I'm older than I thought. And Dumber.

 

Jeff Blauser just got hired to manage one of Atlanta's minor league teams.

 

And at this point, I would take Henry Rodriguez in the OF over most of what we've heard rumors about.