A strong endorsement of Pierre by . .

[The Voice of Reason]

Terence Moore of the AJC and Jack McKeon.

 

Evidently Pierre's "weak arm" doesn't bother two people who've seen him play a lot of ball. I say get him - especially if the Furcal deal falls thru.

 

Pursuing Pierre would behoove Braves|

 

By Terence Moore Wednesday November 30, 2005

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

 

Juan Pierre. He’s exceptional. He’s available. He’s exactly what the Braves need to push their consecutive streak of division titles to 15. Not only that, he’s capable of doing enough with his bat, glove, legs and heart to end their annoying habit of vanishing each October.

 

(Edited by moderator for copyrighted content--posting of entire article is prohibited)

[Careless]

and we wait for the mods to whack this post with the excise stick

[fearthecubs]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

[da bears]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

I agree with you. I may be in the minority, but I really think a Furcal-Pierre one two combination would be great for this team. If I had my choice, I would get Furcal and then trade for Luis Castillo. It's unfortunate that the Twins had the idea of Castillo first.

[Drew Doughty]

I would love to see Pierre AND Furcal, but not just Pierre. That way, Furcal is insurance if Pierre flops. If Pierre flops, we're not any better than last year.

[rocket]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

[imb]

Yes, Pierre slumped to .276 last season, but that still was just eight points lower than Furcal’s batting average during what was considered a superlative year for the Braves’ catalyst.

 

I guess part two of this article covers Furcal's career .64isop Pierre's career .50isop, right in line with last years.

 

This is just another article written by a caveman that hasnt discovered obp yet.

[Careless]

so can castillo play CF?

[CubsWin]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

[imb]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

 

No. You need to decide whether at this stage, he is worth the risk of banking on it not turning into the norm.

[MPrior]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

I agree with you. I may be in the minority, but I really think a Furcal-Pierre one two combination would be great for this team. If I had my choice, I would get Furcal and then trade for Luis Castillo. It's unfortunate that the Twins had the idea of Castillo first.

 

I'm not sure you're necessarily in the minority when you say you think they'd be good for the team; I think most objectors to Furcal-Pierre take issue with the fact that similar production is out there at a reduced cost (be it in players or salary), not that the two of them are awful players.

[NCCubFan]

and we wait for the mods to whack this post with the excise stick

The wait is over. :D

[Transmogrified Tiger]

One doesn't have to include '05 to figure out that Pierre isn't a great player.

 

And why in the world would we hit him after Furcal? Furcal can actually hit for extra bases, so if we had the misfortune of acquiring Pierre, we'd definitely want Pierre to hit before him, not the other way around because Pierre is better at an out-wasting tactic.

 

Also, how exactly does Pierre push a team over the edge? What force does he represent?

[CubsWin]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

 

No. You need to decide whether at this stage, he is worth the risk of banking on it not turning into the norm.

That is exactly what someone does when they "consider whether they (his '05 stats) are the norm or the exception". So you may have wanted to start your response with the word "yes" instead of "no".

[Careless]

Also, how exactly does Pierre push a team over the edge? What force does he represent?

Inertia isn't a force

 

 

I suspect 86% of the board won't understand this at all

edit: fixed moronic spelling mistake

Edited December 2, 2005 by Careless

[Tim]

Also, how exactly does Pierre push a team over the edge? What force does he represent?

Intertia isn't a force

 

 

I suspect 86% of the board won't understand this at all

Is that because of the spelling error? :D

[CubsWin]

One doesn't have to include '05 to figure out that Pierre isn't a great player.

 

And why in the world would we hit him after Furcal? Furcal can actually hit for extra bases, so if we had the misfortune of acquiring Pierre, we'd definitely want Pierre to hit before him, not the other way around because Pierre is better at an out-wasting tactic.

 

Also, how exactly does Pierre push a team over the edge? What force does he represent?

I don't think anyone on this board is claiming that Pierre is a great player. Anyone with a career OPS like his can't be considered great.

 

But as far as what force he represents, clearly ballplayers are human beings and not a bunch of numbers. Their impact on a team's ability to win will always be more than simply what their stats show us.

 

I don't have any idea what kind of force Pierre brings to a team's ability to win. I'm not necessarily swayed by what was written in this article. It reads like it was penned by his agent. But regardless of what was written about Pierre in this article, intangibles exist. And they are called intangibles precisely because they cannot be quantified.

 

Now, as to the impact of one player's intangibles, I have no idea. I doubt any one player's attitude would have much impact on a team's ability to win unless he was able to lead others to join him in a very high work ethic (i.e., getting to the ballpark hours earlier and doing all the things he does). If he can lead a group of men to work harder than they ever have before and raise their standards of excellence and professionalism, then perhaps one player's intangibles can have an impact on a team's ability to win. I don't see it as very likely, however.

[imb]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

 

No. You need to decide whether at this stage, he is worth the risk of banking on it not turning into the norm.

That is exactly what someone does when they "consider whether they (his '05 stats) are the norm or the exception". So you may have wanted to start your response with the word "yes" instead of "no".

 

I dont think it is. Obviously his 05 numbers are the exception so far, everyone who says "HE HAS A CAREER .350 OBP" points this out pretty well. The question isnt whether 05 is an exception or the norm, its whether it will be.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Bunts Lick Butts

[Careless]

Also, how exactly does Pierre push a team over the edge? What force does he represent?

Intertia isn't a force

 

 

I suspect 86% of the board won't understand this at all

Is that because of the spelling error? :D

:oops: I can't even claim a typo on that one :lol:

make it 88% then

[CubsWin]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

 

No. You need to decide whether at this stage, he is worth the risk of banking on it not turning into the norm.

That is exactly what someone does when they "consider whether they (his '05 stats) are the norm or the exception". So you may have wanted to start your response with the word "yes" instead of "no".

 

I dont think it is. Obviously his 05 numbers are the exception so far, everyone who says "HE HAS A CAREER .350 OBP" points this out pretty well. The question isnt whether 05 is an exception or the norm, its whether it will be.

Again, that is the same thing.

 

When one is trying to figure out whether what just happened recently is the exception or the norm, they are essentially trying to predict the future. So...

[imb]

I've read these things about Pierre before. He's the type of player that can push a winning team over the line to a championship-caliber one. For all you stat-heads that are only looking at his '05 numbers, you just aren't seeing the real player and force that this guy represents. A 1-2 of Furcal and Pierre, Pierre second because he can bunt better, would be absolutely LETHAL with Lee and Ramirez (and possibly a decent RF) hitting behind him.

 

Are we supposed to ignore his '05 numbers?

No. You are supposed to consider whether they are the norm or the exception.

 

No. You need to decide whether at this stage, he is worth the risk of banking on it not turning into the norm.

That is exactly what someone does when they "consider whether they (his '05 stats) are the norm or the exception". So you may have wanted to start your response with the word "yes" instead of "no".

 

I dont think it is. Obviously his 05 numbers are the exception so far, everyone who says "HE HAS A CAREER .350 OBP" points this out pretty well. The question isnt whether 05 is an exception or the norm, its whether it will be.

Again, that is the same thing.

 

When one is trying to figure out whether what just happened recently is the exception or the norm, they are essentially trying to predict the future. So...

 

No they arent. Obviously 05 is the exception, the question is will he revert back to the norm, when he was useful, or will the exception (worthless) become the norm.

 

I mean, really, we're just arguing semantics. I imagine we both have the same feelings about Pierre.

[CubsWin]

Again, that is the same thing.

 

When one is trying to figure out whether what just happened recently is the exception or the norm, they are essentially trying to predict the future. So...

 

No they arent. Obviously 05 is the exception, the question is will he revert back to the norm, when he was useful, or will the exception (worthless) become the norm.

 

I mean, really, we're just arguing semantics. I imagine we both have the same feelings about Pierre.

I don't even think we are arguing semantics. :lol:

 

The question you described..."will he revert back to the norm...or will the exception become the norm" is the exact same question I described.

 

Let me ask you this, what evidence should one consider when trying to answer that question?

[fearthecubs]

CP20, don't take this sarcastically, but what players DO you like? You seem to...poo-poo...over anyone that's brought up.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

CP20, don't take this sarcastically, but what players DO you like? You seem to...poo-poo...over anyone that's brought up.

 

I like all kinds of players, out of the targets that have been brought up this offseason, I'm a fan of Bradley, Michaels, Wilkerson, Abreu, Giles, Furcal(not a fan of his price most likely), Lugo, etc.

[fearthecubs]

CP20, don't take this sarcastically, but what players DO you like? You seem to...poo-poo...over anyone that's brought up.

 

I like all kinds of players, out of the targets that have been brought up this offseason, I'm a fan of Bradley, Michaels, Wilkerson, Abreu, Giles, Furcal(not a fan of his price most likely), Lugo, etc.

 

While I agree with each player you listed except for Lugo (I question his commitment), you can't be so specific. If a team went into the offseason saying "OK, we have 10 guys to choose from, and we need to sign 4 of them" - you have a very low percentage of that happening.

 

I think you need to realize that you're cheering for the Cubs, and be more satisfied with any upgrade made. I'm not advocating being ok with mediocrity at all, I'm saying an upgrade is an upgrade - and there are outside forces in baseball that Hendry can't control.