Jones or Wilkerson? Other options?

[fearthecubs]

I'd actually put Tracy in the bottom of the 1st tier. He'd be the cheapest of that group to acquire, to pay, and has the most upside.

 

Me too, I'd say he's a little bit more of a 'sure thing' than some of the other choices as well.

[rawaction]

 

thanks raw

 

I'm sorry. I'll run it by you next time I want to post in my own thread, Mom.

 

Maybe you should if your post isn't funny or insightful.

 

What's the point of this? Please just continue the discussion and let the sarcasm die.

[fearthecubs]

 

thanks raw

 

I'm sorry. I'll run it by you next time I want to post in my own thread, Mom.

 

Maybe you should if your post isn't funny or insightful.

 

What's the point of this? Please just continue the discussion and let the sarcasm die.

 

I'm not starting it. People have it out for me because I like Jacque Jones. :P

[rocket]

 

thanks raw

 

I'm sorry. I'll run it by you next time I want to post in my own thread, Mom.

 

Maybe you should if your post isn't funny or insightful.

 

What's the point of this? Please just continue the discussion and let the sarcasm die.

 

I'm not starting it. People have it out for me because I like Jacque Jones. :P

 

Nah, it was the Howry and Eyre signings that did it for me. ;)

 

my bad fear and raw

[fearthecubs]

 

my bad fear and raw

 

It's cool. I think things are as tense here as they are in some teams clubhouses. Theres just an air of uncertainty over everything. Everyone fears the unknown.

[Jehrico]

3rd Tier

J. Encarnacion

K. Mench

A. Kearns

 

4th Tier

J. Burnitz

J. Jones

W. Pena

 

Why do you think Kearns is better than Wily Mo, out of curiousity?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Wily Mo strikes out 900 times a year.

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

[mg420]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

why wouldn't they want to keep him? the guy hit .304 with 30 hr's in 350 abs' and had an obs of 1.02.

[mg420]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

double post

Edited November 27, 2005 by mg420

[rawaction]

3rd Tier

J. Encarnacion

K. Mench

A. Kearns

 

4th Tier

J. Burnitz

J. Jones

W. Pena

 

Why do you think Kearns is better than Wily Mo, out of curiousity?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Wily Mo strikes out 900 times a year.

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

 

What is there to like about Pena other than the raw power? He doesn't walk. And probably never will, as he hasn't improved (.06 BB/100 in 05, 04 and combined in 02-03) . That's why a team can handle Dunn's K's and not his.

[mg420]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

why wouldn't the dbacks want to keep him? the guy hit .304 with 30 hr's & 87 rbi in 350 abs in 2005. he also had an obs of 1.02. t

[rawaction]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

Don't forget about Shawn Green.

[Roast]

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

 

I wouldnt go that far. I'd say at the middle/bottom of the third teir section, his OBP is horrible. Plus he K's a ton.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

why wouldn't they want to keep him? the guy hit .304 with 30 hr's in 350 abs' and had an obs of 1.02.

 

Clark's last four seasons-

304/366/636

221/297/458

232/300/472

207/265/291

 

Ok, sing along: "One of these things is not like the others..."

 

If Clark can repeat his 2005 performance, surely he's a valuable commodity. But if he regresses to his 2004 or 2003 performance, then he's a platoon player at best.

[Jehrico]

3rd Tier

J. Encarnacion

K. Mench

A. Kearns

 

4th Tier

J. Burnitz

J. Jones

W. Pena

 

Why do you think Kearns is better than Wily Mo, out of curiousity?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Wily Mo strikes out 900 times a year.

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

 

What is there to like about Pena other than the raw power? He doesn't walk. And probably never will, as he hasn't improved (.06 BB/100 in 05, 04 and combined in 02-03) . That's why a team can handle Dunn's K's and not his.

What do you mean he doesn't walk? So he doesn't walk as much as Giles or Dunn...that's the far end of the spectrum. He walks enough to put about a 50 point difference between his average and his OBP. And he's 24. You act like hitters don't ever refine their strike zone beyond the age of 24. That notion is ridiculous.

 

He's another guy that was rushed to the minors too soon, like we did with Corey. They brought him up when he was 20. He's got a good ability to put the bat on the ball. If he can refine his judgement of the strike zone over the next year or two, he'll be a very good hitter. And again, if you're going for Pena, you're going for projected upside. He's a project, and I'd rather take a gamble on him than settle for a mediocre guy with no likelihood of improvement, like Jacque Jones or Raul Ibanez.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

Don't forget about Shawn Green.

 

Green does add one player to the mix, but I've heard they're going to try Green in Cf.

[mg420]

Assuming we don't trade for Abreu, who the hell is going to play RF?

 

I'd trade for Bradley and Wilkerson and play one in CF and one in right. I really doubt we get Abreu, but that doesn't mean I'd want to settle for Jacque Jones. I'd rather trade for Mench or Ibanez than play Jones.

 

Juan Encarnacion is likely a better option than Jones, and I'm not really high on him.

 

I'd see if the Diamondbacks would be willing to trade Tracy before I'd make a run at Jones. Jones may be a nice complementary player on the right team, but there's little about him that impresses me.

 

I'd almost rather have Jeromy Burnitz back on a one year deal than to give Jones a three-year deal.

 

Finally, if we don't trade for Abreu, the best option is still to sign Brian Giles. Hell, if we can afford to piddle away 7 million on middle relievers on three year deals, why can't we pay Giles 3/39?

 

There's no way I'd play Wilkerson in RF (or Jones). Bradley could handle it. I think Encarnacion is a better option than both Wilkerson and Jones.

 

There's no way the D'Backs trade Tracy if they have any sense, I mean why would they - doesn't he have a few years of arb. left?

 

I don't want the Cubs anywhere near Burnitz, he was serviceable last year, but he's getting pretty old now. We're the Cubs, we have money, if Burnitz is back we should riot on Waveland people.

 

I think Wilkerson could handle RF, but ideally you'd like better production from your RF. (However, Wilkerson would produce more than what Burnitz gave us last season.) Defensively, I don't think Wilkerson would have a problem in right. If Wilkerson were our RF and Bradley were our CF, I think the overall OF production would be ok. (Just think about a line-up where every hitter could post a 350+ OBP)

 

As to why the D'backs trade Tracy: They have the following players for four spots: Luis Gonzalez, Connor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Troy Glaus, Chad Tracy, and Tony Clark.

 

While it baffles me that they would keep Clark, they just signed him to an extension, so you can pencil him in at firstbase. The smart move would be to trade Glaus and put Tracy at third. If they keep Glaus, they have Jackson, Gonzalez, Quentin, and Tracy for LF and RF. They could move Tracy because of that.

 

why wouldn't they want to keep him? the guy hit .304 with 30 hr's in 350 abs' and had an obs of 1.02.

 

Clark's last four seasons-

304/366/636

221/297/458

232/300/472

207/265/291

 

Ok, sing along: "One of these things is not like the others..."

 

If Clark can repeat his 2005 performance, surely he's a valuable commodity. But if he regresses to his 2004 or 2003 performance, then he's a platoon player at best.

 

thats why gm's get paid the big bucks. he is a gamble but what if they let him go & he had another monster season for another team? he has had some lousy seasons but the #'s he put up in 05 apparently warrent the risk.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

thats why gm's get paid the big bucks. he is a gamble but what if they let him go & he had another monster season for another team? he has had some lousy seasons but the #'s he put up in 05 apparently warrent the risk.

 

In a vaccum, it's probably not a bad risk. On the other hand, the Diamondbacks have committed big money to Glaus, have Shawn Green and Luis Gonzalez at the corners and have some of the best young prospects in Quentin and Jackson, along with Chad Tracy. Signing Clark just created another back-up when they had cheaper production which could be better from young players.

 

If I had no internal options, I'd probably extend Clark and hope for the best. On the other hand, the Diamondbacks could have used that money to sign some pitchers and used Jackson, Green, or Tracy at first.

[Diffusion]

 

thats why gm's get paid the big bucks. he is a gamble but what if they let him go & he had another monster season for another team? he has had some lousy seasons but the #'s he put up in 05 apparently warrent the risk.

 

In a vaccum, it's probably not a bad risk. On the other hand, the Diamondbacks have committed big money to Glaus, have Shawn Green and Luis Gonzalez at the corners and have some of the best young prospects in Quentin and Jackson, along with Chad Tracy. Signing Clark just created another back-up when they had cheaper production which could be better from young players.

 

If I had no internal options, I'd probably extend Clark and hope for the best. On the other hand, the Diamondbacks could have used that money to sign some pitchers and used Jackson, Green, or Tracy at first.

 

Yeh, but vacuums suck. Being in a vacuum sucks too, especially if you're asthmatic, claustrophic and afraid of the dark.

[rawaction]

3rd Tier

J. Encarnacion

K. Mench

A. Kearns

 

4th Tier

J. Burnitz

J. Jones

W. Pena

 

Why do you think Kearns is better than Wily Mo, out of curiousity?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Wily Mo strikes out 900 times a year.

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

 

What is there to like about Pena other than the raw power? He doesn't walk. And probably never will, as he hasn't improved (.06 BB/100 in 05, 04 and combined in 02-03) . That's why a team can handle Dunn's K's and not his.

What do you mean he doesn't walk? So he doesn't walk as much as Giles or Dunn...that's the far end of the spectrum. He walks enough to put about a 50 point difference between his average and his OBP. And he's 24. You act like hitters don't ever refine their strike zone beyond the age of 24. That notion is ridiculous.

 

He's another guy that was rushed to the minors too soon, like we did with Corey. They brought him up when he was 20. He's got a good ability to put the bat on the ball. If he can refine his judgement of the strike zone over the next year or two, he'll be a very good hitter. And again, if you're going for Pena, you're going for projected upside. He's a project, and I'd rather take a gamble on him than settle for a mediocre guy with no likelihood of improvement, like Jacque Jones or Raul Ibanez.

 

You can't possibly dispute the fact that he doesn't walk enough. He's a career .060 BB/100 hitter. He was exactly on that number the last 2 years. And yes hitters do refine their strikezones as they age. I never said they didn't. But my point is, if you are gonna go with a young hitter with upside who doesn't walk, K's a ton, and has some power.....you might as well stick with Corey Patterson. At least Corey has had past performance to look back at.

 

I agree he was brought up too early. But I don't see his zone getting better. I'd much rather go with Kearns as a project who at least has more of a clue of the zone.

[Jehrico]

3rd Tier

J. Encarnacion

K. Mench

A. Kearns

 

4th Tier

J. Burnitz

J. Jones

W. Pena

 

Why do you think Kearns is better than Wily Mo, out of curiousity?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Wily Mo strikes out 900 times a year.

 

He strikes out just a hair more than Dunn.

 

I'd put him in the second tier...he's young and has alot of upside. I think he could become what alot of people thought Kearns would become. Well, maybe 2nd tier if your concerned with the long term, 3rd tier if you're more worried about 2006 and you don't care about 2007 and beyond.

 

What is there to like about Pena other than the raw power? He doesn't walk. And probably never will, as he hasn't improved (.06 BB/100 in 05, 04 and combined in 02-03) . That's why a team can handle Dunn's K's and not his.

What do you mean he doesn't walk? So he doesn't walk as much as Giles or Dunn...that's the far end of the spectrum. He walks enough to put about a 50 point difference between his average and his OBP. And he's 24. You act like hitters don't ever refine their strike zone beyond the age of 24. That notion is ridiculous.

 

He's another guy that was rushed to the minors too soon, like we did with Corey. They brought him up when he was 20. He's got a good ability to put the bat on the ball. If he can refine his judgement of the strike zone over the next year or two, he'll be a very good hitter. And again, if you're going for Pena, you're going for projected upside. He's a project, and I'd rather take a gamble on him than settle for a mediocre guy with no likelihood of improvement, like Jacque Jones or Raul Ibanez.

 

You can't possibly dispute the fact that he doesn't walk enough. He's a career .060 BB/100 hitter. He was exactly on that number the last 2 years. And yes hitters do refine their strikezones as they age. I never said they didn't. But my point is, if you are gonna go with a young hitter with upside who doesn't walk, K's a ton, and has some power.....you might as well stick with Corey Patterson. At least Corey has had past performance to look back at.

 

I agree he was brought up too early. But I don't see his zone getting better. I'd much rather go with Kearns as a project who at least has more of a clue of the zone.

 

I'm not disputing the fact he doesn't walk enough. I'm saying he walks about as much as one of the other 2nd and all of the 3rd tier guys listed above. If you're settling for something other than a top tier RFer, Pena shouldn't be out of the realm of consideration amongst the 2nd tier and below because of his walk rates.

 

He walks enough to put a .050 difference between his batting average and OBP. I would like to see more, but you were saying he doesn't walk at all. Walking enough to put a .050 difference certainly leaves something to be desired, but it's not like we're talking about Corey who only puts about .030 up there. Several decent serviceable starting outfielders out there put up about .050 to .070 points on their OBP over their average by walking. If you look at some of the other alternatives out there, Raul Ibanez historically is good for a .060 boost due to walks, Jacque Jones is jsut under .050, Mench .062, Encarnacion .048, etc...

 

Basically, he's well behind any of those top tier OFers, but if you're settling for a 2nd tier guy or lower, his walk rates really aren't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. You're throwing that .06 figure out there, but you're not putting it into context against the other alternatives he was listed against.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'll take Wilkerson and Bradley in a second.

 

Wilkerson was SEVERELY hurt by his home park this year, as he's shown very good power and paitence in every other season in his whole career, and Wrigley would only help.

 

Both he and Bradley would solve such major holes its disgustingly unfunny. We'd be such a good team if we added those two guys in there, and BOTH are available and possibly for next to nothing.

 

MAKE THE MOVE HENDRY.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'll take Wilkerson and Bradley in a second.

 

Wilkerson was SEVERELY hurt by his home park this year, as he's shown very good power and paitence in every other season in his whole career, and Wrigley would only help.

 

Both he and Bradley would solve such major holes its disgustingly unfunny. We'd be such a good team if we added those two guys in there, and BOTH are available and possibly for next to nothing.

 

MAKE THE MOVE HENDRY.

 

Bradley may be available for next to nothing; I'm not sure the same can be said about Wilkerson.

[nilodnayr]

The nationals should be pretty set with Sledge, Church, and Guillen in the OF. If I'm bowden and im talking to Hendry about Wilk, the conversation begins and ends with cedeno.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The nationals should be pretty set with Sledge, Church, and Guillen in the OF. If I'm bowden and im talking to Hendry about Wilk, the conversation begins and ends with cedeno.

 

Yep. I'm pretty sure Bowden will at least inquire about Cedeno. If we sign Furcal, Hendry might consider dealing him, but I'd rather not.

 

I'd try to interest the Nats in some of our pitching prospects instead. Jerome Williams also would look nice pitching in that park. I'd try to swing a Williams and Ryu deal for Wilkerson if possible.

[nilodnayr]

The nationals should be pretty set with Sledge, Church, and Guillen in the OF. If I'm bowden and im talking to Hendry about Wilk, the conversation begins and ends with cedeno.

 

Yep. I'm pretty sure Bowden will at least inquire about Cedeno. If we sign Furcal, Hendry might consider dealing him, but I'd rather not.

 

I'd try to interest the Nats in some of our pitching prospects instead. Jerome Williams also would look nice pitching in that park. I'd try to swing a Williams and Ryu deal for Wilkerson if possible.

 

I agree, ss and pitching is what the nats should be looking for, but with bowden thats a big should. However it seems like Church is really disliked by robinson (God only knows why). Id be quite happy trying to flip patterson for him as part of the deal.