Last 3 Sentences in Bruce Miles' Report 11/24/05

Blueheart05 · November 24, 2005

I take it that in Bruce's opinion (IBO) the Pierre deal is not as close as is being reported by the Score.

Or he's waiting for additional confirmation. Yesterday when all the local outlets were speculating about a completed Howry deal, Bruce wrote that the Cubs "might pursue" him.

Jehrico · November 24, 2005

the good thing is that he almost never gets fleeced when he does trade.

"Almost" is the key word. Trading Juan Cruz for slugs like Pratt and Lewis was pretty dismal and qualifies for "fleeced" status in my books. Especially when you consider that the Braves were able to use Cruz as part of a package to land Tim Hudson.

I think it's a fair distinction that when Hendry is trading "to get someone", he does a pretty good job(Nomar, Ramirez, Barrett, Lee). When he is trading "to get rid of someone", that's when he screws up(Cruz, Sosa, Farnsworth; Hawkins is the exception).

What has Cruz and Sosa done since we traded them? Hairston did better last year than Sosa. Cruz hasn't done anything since we got rid of him, even the Braves didn't hold on to him that long. Hard to say we got fleeced. Farns, I dunno. We got shorted on that one, but not as badly as some make it out to be. If Moore tears it up again at a higher level next year, I wouldn't get to bent out of shape over that one.

Jehrico · November 24, 2005

Abreu?

HECK YES!!!!! :D :D =P~

Do you think the Delgado trade or Thome trade can give us any new insight as to what it might take to land Abreu in terms of players and money?

Hoops, you have to ask yourself how the Phillies are going to 'look at' the 25M they sent to Chicago. What percentage of that counts towards the 06 payroll that they're budgeting for?

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that either Abreu or Lofton will be traded, and that brings up the second question of timing. Assuming neither have signed by the beginning of the winter meetings in early December, do you forget Furcal and go all out for Abreu assuming he's made available? What would it take to acquire Abreu? Obviously not another outfielder, so Corey is out of that equation, which brings up question number 3 - Corey hasn't been rumored in the Marlins trade, and if he doesn't have a spot in Philly in a possible Abreu trade.......what are we going to do with him?

I think the trades do give us insight as to what it is going to take to get Abreu. The question is whether or not the Cubs are willing to give that up. Of course, I don't see Philly eating any of Abreu's contract (they ate too much of Thome's and had an ample replacement in the wings), so I don't think it will take an established ML'er and 2 top prospects. I think we're looking close to the Delgado deal of 2 top 10 prospects and 1 midlevel prospect.

Personally, I think it would take Pie, Hill, and probably a throw in arm they can put in the pen (Wellemeyer). But I still think the best deal for Philly and the Cubs would be to get a 3rd team involved.

My proposed deal:

Cubs get: Abreu
Phillies get: Jerome Williams, Hank Blalock
Texas gets: David Bell, Padilla, Pie (cash from Phillies)

Hendry would never let this deal happen, as Texas would be getting away with murder here. Blalock's away averages at home: .243/.300/.407. Obviosly since he got alot of hype from the All Star Game, his stock would be high but Im not sure he constitutes that kind of return. Id look somewhere else for a 3rd wheel team, try this:

Cubs get: Abreu, Michaels
Phillies get: Mueller, Hill, and Williams
Red Sox get: Patterson, Harvey, and Ohman/Novoa

Michaels has no room with the addition of Rowand, so he wil prby be ousted somewhere, in this deal, you can switch Michaels going to the Red Sox as well and save trading Patterson and Harvey, but id take the cost to get him as well.

The Phillies get one of the top 10 3B's in the MLB, a suitable option for this year, as well as 2 fillers for their rotation, and cut costs enough to go after FA pitching. The red sox makeout with a good haul just from Mueller, and all should work out financially in this deal with the cubs eating all of Abreu's contract.

The Red Sox give up Mueller, get patterson, harvey, and ohman or novoa in return? Wow, I'd do tha in a heartbeat if I were them. I think Philly would want harvey and ohman or novoa out of that one in addition to what they are already getting.

rocket · November 24, 2005

the good thing is that he almost never gets fleeced when he does trade.

"Almost" is the key word. Trading Juan Cruz for slugs like Pratt and Lewis was pretty dismal and qualifies for "fleeced" status in my books. Especially when you consider that the Braves were able to use Cruz as part of a package to land Tim Hudson.

I think it's a fair distinction that when Hendry is trading "to get someone", he does a pretty good job(Nomar, Ramirez, Barrett, Lee). When he is trading "to get rid of someone", that's when he screws up(Cruz, Sosa, Farnsworth; Hawkins is the exception).

What has Cruz and Sosa done since we traded them? Hairston did better last year than Sosa. Cruz hasn't done anything since we got rid of him, even the Braves didn't hold on to him that long. Hard to say we got fleeced. Farns, I dunno. We got shorted on that one, but not as badly as some make it out to be. If Moore tears it up again at a higher level next year, I wouldn't get to bent out of shape over that one.

I think his point is that Hendry traded those guys when their value was at their absolute lowest. We might have gotten better for Sosa if the Cubs didn't run that smear campaign after the season ended. We might have gotten better for Cruz if we would have traded him before he sucked at the big league level.

SAMMYWHO · November 24, 2005

Regarding the trade with the Phils and Red Sox. First of all the Cubs are giving up way to much in that deal. Second, Bill Mueller is a free agent.

Jazz · November 24, 2005

Regarding the trade with the Phils and Red Sox. First of all the Cubs are giving up way to much in that deal. Second, Bill Mueller is a free agent.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size:

Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies

Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect

Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k)

Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects.

With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation).

Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect.

2B Walker

RF Abreu

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Gonzalez

CF Bradley

SS Cedeno

C Barrett

That lineup could score some runs.

CubfaninCA · November 24, 2005

Regarding the trade with the Phils and Red Sox. First of all the Cubs are giving up way to much in that deal. Second, Bill Mueller is a free agent.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size:

Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies
Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect
Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k)

Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects.
With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation).
Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect.

2B Walker
RF Abreu
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Gonzalez
CF Bradley
SS Cedeno
C Barrett

That lineup could score some runs.

AZ wants to gut their team??

Jazz · November 24, 2005

Regarding the trade with the Phils and Red Sox. First of all the Cubs are giving up way to much in that deal. Second, Bill Mueller is a free agent.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size:

Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies
Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect
Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k)

Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects.
With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation).
Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect.

2B Walker
RF Abreu
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Gonzalez
CF Bradley
SS Cedeno
C Barrett

That lineup could score some runs.

AZ wants to gut their team??

no but getting out of the 11.5 mil contract of gonzalez would help alot in signing some FA pitching, Tracy and Gonzalez currently block their 2 best prospects Quentin and Jackson.

CaliforniaRaisin · November 24, 2005

Regarding the trade with the Phils and Red Sox. First of all the Cubs are giving up way to much in that deal. Second, Bill Mueller is a free agent.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size:

Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies
Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect
Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k)

Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects.
With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation).
Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect.

2B Walker
RF Abreu
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Gonzalez
CF Bradley
SS Cedeno
C Barrett

That lineup could score some runs.

I think the DBacks get fleeced in that - Tracy and Gonzalez and money for Hill and Williams? They'll need more than that.

Guancous · November 24, 2005

Not to mention that Chad Tracy isn't too shabby himself.

badger1679666666 · November 24, 2005

the good thing is that he almost never gets fleeced when he does trade.

"Almost" is the key word. Trading Juan Cruz for slugs like Pratt and Lewis was pretty dismal and qualifies for "fleeced" status in my books. Especially when you consider that the Braves were able to use Cruz as part of a package to land Tim Hudson.

I think it's a fair distinction that when Hendry is trading "to get someone", he does a pretty good job(Nomar, Ramirez, Barrett, Lee). When he is trading "to get rid of someone", that's when he screws up(Cruz, Sosa, Farnsworth; Hawkins is the exception).

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

Roast · November 25, 2005

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone.

Getting:

-Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK

-Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers

Getting Rid:

- Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy)

- Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm..

- Cruz for Anderson and Pratt

There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man.

*Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias?

Neuby · November 25, 2005

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone.

Getting:
-Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK
-Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers

Getting Rid:
- Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy)
- Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm..
- Cruz for Anderson and Pratt

There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man.

*Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias?

Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt

I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers.

Illini Iceman · November 25, 2005

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone.

Getting:
-Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK
-Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers

Getting Rid:
- Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy)
- Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm..
- Cruz for Anderson and Pratt

There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man.

*Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias?
Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt

I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers.

Also, if you use the same "rental" theory that some here do on getting Pierre, then Detroit was just getting Farns on a "rental" since he was due to be a FA the following offseason. So the fact that Hendry got a solid reliever with good upside in Novoa and a prospect with big league potential in Moore does not look so bad.

5.3k · November 25, 2005

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone.

Getting:
-Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK
-Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers

Getting Rid:
- Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy)
- Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm..
- Cruz for Anderson and Pratt

There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man.

*Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias?
Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt

I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers.

Also, if you use the same "rental" theory that some here do on getting Pierre, then Detroit was just getting Farns on a "rental" since he was due to be a FA the following offseason. So the fact that Hendry got a solid reliever with good upside in Novoa and a prospect with big league potential in Moore does not look so bad.

I think you are using the word solid a little too freely.

Illini Iceman · November 25, 2005

Hundley for Karros and Grudz would be another exception so I'd say he's batting close to even on those deals. In fact, that deal was an amazing job by Hendry to pawn off a crappy player.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone.

Getting:
-Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK
-Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers

Getting Rid:
- Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy)
- Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm..
- Cruz for Anderson and Pratt

There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man.

*Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias?
Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt

I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers.

Also, if you use the same "rental" theory that some here do on getting Pierre, then Detroit was just getting Farns on a "rental" since he was due to be a FA the following offseason. So the fact that Hendry got a solid reliever with good upside in Novoa and a prospect with big league potential in Moore does not look so bad.

I think you are using the word solid a little too freely.

I'll go down to serviceable, but that's my final offer. :wink:

fearthecubs · November 25, 2005

Novoa's got good stuff if he could throw strikes. Big if though.

CubfaninCA · November 25, 2005

Abreu?

HECK YES!!!!! :D :D =P~

Do you think the Delgado trade or Thome trade can give us any new insight as to what it might take to land Abreu in terms of players and money?

Hoops, you have to ask yourself how the Phillies are going to 'look at' the 25M they sent to Chicago. What percentage of that counts towards the 06 payroll that they're budgeting for?

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that either Abreu or Lofton will be traded, and that brings up the second question of timing. Assuming neither have signed by the beginning of the winter meetings in early December, do you forget Furcal and go all out for Abreu assuming he's made available? What would it take to acquire Abreu? Obviously not another outfielder, so Corey is out of that equation, which brings up question number 3 - Corey hasn't been rumored in the Marlins trade, and if he doesn't have a spot in Philly in a possible Abreu trade.......what are we going to do with him?

I think the trades do give us insight as to what it is going to take to get Abreu. The question is whether or not the Cubs are willing to give that up. Of course, I don't see Philly eating any of Abreu's contract (they ate too much of Thome's and had an ample replacement in the wings), so I don't think it will take an established ML'er and 2 top prospects. I think we're looking close to the Delgado deal of 2 top 10 prospects and 1 midlevel prospect.

Personally, I think it would take Pie, Hill, and probably a throw in arm they can put in the pen (Wellemeyer). But I still think the best deal for Philly and the Cubs would be to get a 3rd team involved.

My proposed deal:

Cubs get: Abreu
Phillies get: Jerome Williams, Hank Blalock
Texas gets: David Bell, Padilla, Pie (cash from Phillies)

If Padilla performed better the past few years, could see this deal.

mhuber92211 · November 25, 2005

I am suprised by the idea that we got fleeced in teh Farnsworth Trade. We got 3 players Bo Flowers, Scott Moore (former 1st round pick in '03) and Roberto Novoa.

Novoa's Cubs Stats:

4 5 4.43 ERA 49G 44.2 IP 47H 22ER 25BB/47K

Moore's Daytona Stats:

.281/.358/.485 31 DBL 20HR 82RBI 55BB/134K 22SB

Flowers' Stats:

.238/.286/.353 10DBL 8HR 49RBI 19BB/121K 10SB

Farnsworth's Stats:

1 1 2.19 ERA 72G 70IP 44H 18R 27BB/87K

So we gave up a 3 million a year reliever and got 3 players, 2 solid prospects and 1 filler. Not bad for a middle reliever that we were trying to get rid of.

USSoccer · November 25, 2005

Aren't people being a little hard on Novoa? He made his pro debut this season, and showed flashes of brilliance, mixed in with inconsistency, just like you would expect him to. How many relievers come out of the minors to be lights out setup guys?

Let's give him at least 2006 before we're calling him a stiff.

WrigleyinEngland · November 25, 2005

US i'm with you on Navoa. So many people are saying what a crapshoot the bullpen is why not give this guy a chance?. He did indeed show flashes of brilliance and he definetely has a live arm. I think you also have to factor in his experience = virtually nothing at the mlb level . give him a chance to make some adjustments this year and then criticise.

WrigleyinEngland · November 25, 2005

Is Novoa just another victim of Dustbag?? check this out

At Wrigley ( Hitters Park according to the experts)

W3 L 1 2.12 ERA in 20 games 17 IP 17 Ks

His ERA is also nearly 1.5 lower in the day. Add to this that he only allowed 4 HR in 44 IP as opposed to 4HR in 21IP the year before. Not saying the guy is Eric Gange in the making just think he has solid potential.

WrigleyinEngland · November 25, 2005

Man its amazing what stats can look like !! If you start Novoa in an inning with no one on base his era is 0.42 in 21.2IP!!!

rawaction · November 25, 2005

Man its amazing what stats can look like !! If you start Novoa in an inning with no one on base his era is 0.42 in 21.2IP!!!

Yeah, Novoa's not that bad. He has the potential to be a solid setup man. It wasn't a bad trade for Farns, especially considering the Tigers only had him for like 4 months.

NoDak · November 25, 2005

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that either Abreu or Lofton will be traded

FYI, Lofton is a FA

Maybe they are going to try to "hood-wink" another team:

"Yeah, you can have him (for a couple of weeks) for just a couple of minor leaguers"

Last 3 Sentences in Bruce Miles' Report 11/24/05

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Member Statistics

Prospect News & Highlights

Recent News

Notes & Rumors

Recent Blogs