Braves rework Chipper's deal to try to keep Furcal

[The Voice of Reason]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would you make the Cubs pennant contenders?

[tgk]

From the Trib:

 

If Furcal stays in Atlanta, Hendry is expected to heat up trade talks with Florida for center fielder Juan Pierre, turning over the starting shortstop job to Ronny Cedeno.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-0511180197nov18,1,426595.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

 

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. With Cedeno at short, Pierre in Center and a two headed Walker/Perez monster at second, Hendry has a ton of cash for a RF - all he has to do is pry Dunn away from the Reds. :pig:

 

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

[BigbadB]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would make the Cubs pennant contenders?

 

If Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances, then Furcal it is. I think that's the part that people don't see when I say forget Furcal. Once I've heard that Giles absolutely will not come to the Cubs, then we move on. The money is there to overpay for Furcal.

 

After Giles, the next options for RF become fairly cheap, whether it be Mench, Bradley, Wilkerson, etc... The Abreu, Ichiro, Sheffield, Ramirez ideas just fall too far out of the scope of reason, whether it's if the teams would honestly trade these players, whether it's if the Cubs actually have value to send back or if the Cubs are willing to take on the entire salary of the players listed.

 

If Giles is not an option, I'd contact LA and work a deal for Bradley. He's cheap, versatile in the outfield, has decent power and speed. I would then throw how ever many players necessary to get Aubrey Huff from Tampa.

 

Not "good" players. Just players. They won't get Rich Hill or Felix Pie. But, I'd send Novoa, Mitre, and a few others if need be. I'd then get Huff locked up. Bradley won't get a deal because of his "past". With Pie coming, we wouldn't want to block CF anyway.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Murton

Walker

Barrett

 

If Walker is being traded no matter what (though I really don't understand why they would do that), then stick Cedeno in at 2nd and call it a day. That's a good line up, either way.

 

Who knows, it might even be better to go this route than sign Giles. It's a younger team with good balance throughout.

Edited November 18, 2005 by BigbadB

[JeffH]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

[goonys evil twin]

Just a question in case you might know (not being a smart ass). Do Yankee and Red Sox fans really care about "overpaying" as much as Cubs fans do? It just seems funny that an organization that has spent over 100 million dollar s last year has fans worrying about spending.

Red Sox fans as a whole were unhappy with the Renteria signing of 4/42 (I believe that's what it was) even before Edgar proved he wasn't worth that much money. They were upset because they could have had Cabrera for less and had basically the same production. So yes, we're not crazy for being a big-market team's fans who want the organization to spend wisely.

 

 

I never implied craziness, I don't enjoy spending money for crap either (rusch/neifury) I was just curious about the viewpoints of other fanbases.

 

I've never heard a Yankees fan complain about overpaying for a guy, at the time of the signing.

 

What you do hear all the time is, "And we're paying him how much?", usually after the first year he fails to live up to expectations (see, Pavano, Johnson, Giambi, etc).

 

But it's a completely different situation. If the Cubs operated on the budget of Boston or the Yankees, I would be completely in favor of going 5/60 on Giles, 5/50 on Furcal, 5/55 on AJ, and 3/30 on Wagner.

 

Obviously that's not the case. The Cubs work under a budget, and while it's been steadily increasing every year for quite a while now, and is among the top 5 in baseball, it's still a rather strict budget that cannot withstand too much inefficient spending. Sometimes I feel a GM with a $75-$80m payroll is better off than a GM with $100m, simply because the former would be forced to avoid overpaying for mediocrity on a regular basis. It seems to me that all the extra cash does for Hendry is remove that voice in the back of his head that says, "Hey, we could probably get similiar production for much less cost if we go elsewhere."

[goonys evil twin]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

 

For which spot are you talking about with those guys, top of the order or 5? The Cubs have 3 holes right now (and seem to want to create a 4th). If they get one of those two for leadoff, they're still looking to fill 2 more spots, one of which has to be a really good hitter.

[nick23]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would make the Cubs pennant contenders?

 

If Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances, then Furcal it is. I think that's the part that people don't see when I say forget Furcal. Once I've heard that Giles absolutely will not come to the Cubs, then we move on. The money is there to overpay for Furcal.

 

After Giles, the next options for RF become fairly cheap, whether it be Mench, Bradley, Wilkerson, etc... The Abreu, Ichiro, Sheffield, Ramirez ideas just fall too far out of the scope of reason, whether it's if the teams would honestly trade these players, whether it's if the Cubs actually have value to send back or if the Cubs are willing to take on the entire salary of the players listed.

 

If Giles is not an option, I'd contact LA and work a deal for Bradley. He's cheap, versatile in the outfield, has decent power and speed. I would then throw how ever many players necessary to get Aubrey Huff from Tampa.

 

Not "good" players. Just players. They won't get Rich Hill or Felix Pie. But, I'd send Novoa, Mitre, and a few others if need be. I'd then get Huff locked up. Bradley won't get a deal because of his "past". With Pie coming, we wouldn't want to block CF anyway.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Murton

Walker

Barrett

 

If Walker is being traded no matter what (though I really don't understand why they would do that), then stick Cedeno in at 2nd and call it a day. That's a good line up, either way.

 

Who knows, it might even be better to go this route than sign Giles. It's a younger team with good balance throughout.

I would love to do a Hill for Huff deal straight up. I'm not even sure if Hill would be enough to get Huff though. My ideal offseason moves from here on out would be sign Furcal, trade for Pierre, trade for Huff, then trade TWalk for a solid bullpen arm.

Pierre

Furcal

Lee

Ramirez

Huff

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

That's a much improved offense from last year. Assuming the rotation stays healthy, and the new bullpen guys have solid years, we should be strong contenders for a ring.

[CubinNY]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would make the Cubs pennant contenders?

 

If Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances, then Furcal it is. I think that's the part that people don't see when I say forget Furcal. Once I've heard that Giles absolutely will not come to the Cubs, then we move on. The money is there to overpay for Furcal.

 

After Giles, the next options for RF become fairly cheap, whether it be Mench, Bradley, Wilkerson, etc... The Abreu, Ichiro, Sheffield, Ramirez ideas just fall too far out of the scope of reason, whether it's if the teams would honestly trade these players, whether it's if the Cubs actually have value to send back or if the Cubs are willing to take on the entire salary of the players listed.

 

If Giles is not an option, I'd contact LA and work a deal for Bradley. He's cheap, versatile in the outfield, has decent power and speed. I would then throw how ever many players necessary to get Aubrey Huff from Tampa.

 

Not "good" players. Just players. They won't get Rich Hill or Felix Pie. But, I'd send Novoa, Mitre, and a few others if need be. I'd then get Huff locked up. Bradley won't get a deal because of his "past". With Pie coming, we wouldn't want to block CF anyway.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Murton

Walker

Barrett

 

If Walker is being traded no matter what (though I really don't understand why they would do that), then stick Cedeno in at 2nd and call it a day. That's a good line up, either way.

 

Who knows, it might even be better to go this route than sign Giles. It's a younger team with good balance throughout.

I would love to do a Hill for Huff deal straight up. I'm not even sure if Hill would be enough to get Huff though. My ideal offseason moves from here on out would be sign Furcal, trade for Pierre, trade for Huff, then trade TWalk for a solid bullpen arm.

Pierre

Furcal

Lee

Ramirez

Huff

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

That's a much improved offense from last year. Assuming the rotation stays healthy, and the new bullpen guys have solid years, we should be strong contenders for a ring.

 

I like Huff too and he probably will be dealt. He is comming off one of his worst years ever and there are questions about his "character". Still, I don't think Hill would get it done. But one never knows. The only thing about that thoughis I'm not sure he can play RF.

[BigbadB]

Huff had the arm to play 3rd, so we probably rule that part out. Defensively, I don't know how good of an outfielder he is.

 

I'd still consider it if Hill had to be one of the prospects included in the deal. Sing or Doparik might be of interest as well.

 

Tampa rejected a Gil Meche straight up deal for Huff. Meche makes almost 3m though, so I believe the money was probably the biggest reason that deal fell through.

 

Mitre, Novoa and Welly? Mitre, Novoa and Scott Moore? The one thing the Cubs have right now is commodity. Whether Tampa would rather have one really good prospect rather than 3 or 4 mediocre prospects, I don't know.

[tgk]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

 

Forgive my lame analogy, but if the Cubs don't get Furcal, they need to "Hit one out of the park" when finding a RF. I could live with Pierre (although I think they could do better) but if he's in center and Cedeno is at SS, presumably batting 8th, then the probable batting order is going to look like this:

 

Pierre

Walker (assuming he isn't traded, which is unlikely)

Lee

Mystery RF

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

That's not a bad line up, actually could be pretty good. But it hinges on the RF. With the money the Cubs have available, and considereing this everyone but Pierre (who will probably be replaced by Pie next year) and Walker figures to be around for at least a couple of years, they need a star. The have the talent in the minors to get one too. The question is, who is it? Unfortunately the team the Cubs match up best with is the Reds and they supposedly won't or don't want to trade within the division.

 

But if it was me, I'd ask for Dunn and make it awful difficult to say no. They have the talent to offer a stud pitching prospect and with an outfiled that young - Murton and Pie would be cheap for years, they could lock Dunn up for a long time so they can afford to deal Harvey as well.

 

You tell me, if you're the Reds does Harvey and Guzman for Dunn interest you? Heck, throw in Mitre if you have to. It would be difficult to watch another Cubs prospect take off with another organzation, but a shot at the WS would soften the blow.

 

Get it Dunn.

[BigbadB]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

 

Forgive my lame analogy, but if the Cubs don't get Furcal, they need to "Hit one out of the park" when finding a RF. I could live with Pierre (although I think they could do better) but if he's in center and Cedeno is at SS, presumably batting 8th, then the probable batting order is going to look like this:

 

Pierre

Walker (assuming he isn't traded, which is unlikely)

Lee

Mystery RF

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

That's not a bad line up, actually could be pretty good. But it hinges on the RF. With the money the Cubs have available, and considereing this everyone but Pierre (who will probably be replaced by Pie next year) and Walker figures to be around for at least a couple of years, they need a star. The have the talent in the minors to get one too. The question is, who is it? Unfortunately the team the Cubs match up best with is the Reds and they supposedly won't or don't want to trade within the division.

 

But if it was me, I'd ask for Dunn and make it awful difficult to say no. They have the talent to offer a stud pitching prospect and with an outfiled that young - Murton and Pie would be cheap for years, they could lock Dunn up for a long time so they can afford to deal Harvey as well.

 

You tell me, if you're the Reds does Harvey and Guzman for Dunn interest you? Heck, throw in Mitre if you have to. It would be difficult to watch another Cubs prospect take off with another organzation, but a shot at the WS would soften the blow.

 

Get in Dunn.

 

You need to take Guzman out of the proposal. I don't see any team gambling on him after his last few years of injury plague. And that's fine by me.

[tgk]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

 

Forgive my lame analogy, but if the Cubs don't get Furcal, they need to "Hit one out of the park" when finding a RF. I could live with Pierre (although I think they could do better) but if he's in center and Cedeno is at SS, presumably batting 8th, then the probable batting order is going to look like this:

 

Pierre

Walker (assuming he isn't traded, which is unlikely)

Lee

Mystery RF

Ramirez

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

That's not a bad line up, actually could be pretty good. But it hinges on the RF. With the money the Cubs have available, and considereing this everyone but Pierre (who will probably be replaced by Pie next year) and Walker figures to be around for at least a couple of years, they need a star. The have the talent in the minors to get one too. The question is, who is it? Unfortunately the team the Cubs match up best with is the Reds and they supposedly won't or don't want to trade within the division.

 

But if it was me, I'd ask for Dunn and make it awful difficult to say no. They have the talent to offer a stud pitching prospect and with an outfiled that young - Murton and Pie would be cheap for years, they could lock Dunn up for a long time so they can afford to deal Harvey as well.

 

You tell me, if you're the Reds does Harvey and Guzman for Dunn interest you? Heck, throw in Mitre if you have to. It would be difficult to watch another Cubs prospect take off with another organzation, but a shot at the WS would soften the blow.

 

Get in Dunn.

 

You need to take Guzman out of the proposal. I don't see any team gambling on him after his last few years of injury plague. And that's fine by me.

 

Personally, I'd rather keep him too, he supposedly (I've never actually seen him) has the highest upside. However, it was just a name. I'm not famaliar enough with the Minors right now to pull the top pitching prospect out of my head, but the point is the same. It will take a couple of Blue chippers to get Dunn, and they can afford it.

[JeffH]

For which spot are you talking about with those guys, top of the order or 5?

 

I was talking about Wilkerson and Bradley as #5 guys, but I suppose they'd fit at #2 also.

 

Something like

 

Furcal-Pierre-Lee-Ramirez-"2002-2004"Wilkerson-Murton-Barrett-Cedeno

 

is good enough if you can get "top 3 in the NL" pitching.

 

That said, sign Giles!

[The Voice of Reason]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would you make the Cubs pennant contenders?

If Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances, then Furcal it is. I think that's the part that people don't see when I say forget Furcal. Once I've heard that Giles absolutely will not come to the Cubs, then we move on. The money is there to overpay for Furcal.

 

After Giles, the next options for RF become fairly cheap, whether it be Mench, Bradley, Wilkerson, etc... The Abreu, Ichiro, Sheffield, Ramirez ideas just fall too far out of the scope of reason, whether it's if the teams would honestly trade these players, whether it's if the Cubs actually have value to send back or if the Cubs are willing to take on the entire salary of the players listed.

 

If Giles is not an option, I'd contact LA and work a deal for Bradley. He's cheap, versatile in the outfield, has decent power and speed. I would then throw how ever many players necessary to get Aubrey Huff from Tampa.

 

Not "good" players. Just players. They won't get Rich Hill or Felix Pie. But, I'd send Novoa, Mitre, and a few others if need be. I'd then get Huff locked up. Bradley won't get a deal because of his "past". With Pie coming, we wouldn't want to block CF anyway.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Murton

Walker

Barrett

 

If Walker is being traded no matter what (though I really don't understand why they would do that), then stick Cedeno in at 2nd and call it a day. That's a good line up, either way.

 

Who knows, it might even be better to go this route than sign Giles. It's a younger team with good balance throughout.

 

Nice job. However, what if Furcal's agent wants the Cubs final offer in a week and the Giles situation (with several more teams interested) is not finalized. What do you do? Make Furcal an offer or take a chance and don't make an offer and save the $ with the hope that you can use it to beat out all the other competitors for Giles?

[goonys evil twin]

I was talking about Wilkerson and Bradley as #5 guys, but I suppose they'd fit at #2 also.

 

Something like

 

Furcal-Pierre-Lee-Ramirez-"2002-2004"Wilkerson-Murton-Barrett-Cedeno

 

is good enough if you can get "top 3 in the NL" pitching.

 

That said, sign Giles!

 

Oh, that wouldn't be a bad lineup at all.

[JeffH]

Is that sarcasm?

[goonys evil twin]

Is that sarcasm?

 

No.

[JeffH]

OK.

[BigbadB]

It's not that we don't want them to spend every dime of their budget on the team, it's how they spend it that concerns people.

 

 

Triple B, Vance, Hoops (and anyone else) - The price of poker is going up because of the weak free agent class and because all the teams have money to spend (even KC and Pittsburgh).

 

Assume Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances (I know you don't agree with this premise but just humor me). Also assume it would cost you $60 milllion to get Burnett (5 x $12 million) and the Reds won't trade within the division. Finally, assume a 20% premium over market value for the remaining free agents, that other teams will only make trades (fair for both sides) with the Cubs and that you don't want an "overpriced" Furcal.

 

How would you make the Cubs pennant contenders?

If Giles won't come to the Cubs under any circumstances, then Furcal it is. I think that's the part that people don't see when I say forget Furcal. Once I've heard that Giles absolutely will not come to the Cubs, then we move on. The money is there to overpay for Furcal.

 

After Giles, the next options for RF become fairly cheap, whether it be Mench, Bradley, Wilkerson, etc... The Abreu, Ichiro, Sheffield, Ramirez ideas just fall too far out of the scope of reason, whether it's if the teams would honestly trade these players, whether it's if the Cubs actually have value to send back or if the Cubs are willing to take on the entire salary of the players listed.

 

If Giles is not an option, I'd contact LA and work a deal for Bradley. He's cheap, versatile in the outfield, has decent power and speed. I would then throw how ever many players necessary to get Aubrey Huff from Tampa.

 

Not "good" players. Just players. They won't get Rich Hill or Felix Pie. But, I'd send Novoa, Mitre, and a few others if need be. I'd then get Huff locked up. Bradley won't get a deal because of his "past". With Pie coming, we wouldn't want to block CF anyway.

 

Furcal

Bradley

Lee

Huff

Ramirez

Murton

Walker

Barrett

 

If Walker is being traded no matter what (though I really don't understand why they would do that), then stick Cedeno in at 2nd and call it a day. That's a good line up, either way.

 

Who knows, it might even be better to go this route than sign Giles. It's a younger team with good balance throughout.

 

Nice job. However, what if Furcal's agent wants the Cubs final offer in a week and the Giles situation (with several more teams interested) is not finalized. What do you do? Make Furcal an offer or take a chance and don't make an offer and save the $ with the hope that you can use it to beat out all the other competitors for Giles?

 

Then I suppose you have 1 week to make an offer attractive enough to sign Giles.

 

Of course, this whole scenario is different from your previous one. The previous one clearly states that Giles is uninterested in the Cubs entirely.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hendry doesn't think the re-structuring will affect the Cubs much.

 

Link

 

General manager Jim Hendry said he doesn't believe his pursuit of shortstop Rafael Furcal will be affected by the decision of Atlanta third baseman Chipper Jones to have his contract restructured to help the Braves in their off-season pursuits.

 

"I don't think that really has a bearing on what I would be thinking, what I'd do or what [Furcal] thinks," Hendry said. "It's a good gesture by Chipper, and I'm sure [braves general manager] John Schuerholz will use the money wisely no matter what he does."

 

No offer has been made, but Furcal's agent, Paul Kinzer, knows how far the Cubs will go.

 

I find it interesting that Hendry hasn't made a formal offer but yet Kinzer knows what limits the Cubs have set. My guess is Hendry doesn't want to negotiate until Furcal makes up his mind to return to the Braves or not.

 

I also think that may indicate that the Cubs will go further than any other team so far and Kinzer is looking for a better deal.

 

We all know Kinzer wants 5/50 or more. My guess is the Cubs won't go that far...probably 4/40 or 5/45...something like that. Kinzer wants more and the Cubs have laid a framework to get something done if Furcal decides he wants to play in Chicago.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry doesn't think the re-structuring will affect the Cubs much.

 

Link

 

General manager Jim Hendry said he doesn't believe his pursuit of shortstop Rafael Furcal will be affected by the decision of Atlanta third baseman Chipper Jones to have his contract restructured to help the Braves in their off-season pursuits.

 

"I don't think that really has a bearing on what I would be thinking, what I'd do or what [Furcal] thinks," Hendry said. "It's a good gesture by Chipper, and I'm sure [braves general manager] John Schuerholz will use the money wisely no matter what he does."

 

No offer has been made, but Furcal's agent, Paul Kinzer, knows how far the Cubs will go.

 

I find it interesting that Hendry hasn't made a formal offer but yet Kinzer knows what limits the Cubs have set. My guess is Hendry doesn't want to negotiate until Furcal makes up his mind to return to the Braves or not.

 

I also think that may indicate that the Cubs will go further than any other team so far and Kinzer is looking for a better deal.

 

We all know Kinzer wants 5/50 or more. My guess is the Cubs won't go that far...probably 4/40 or 5/45...something like that. Kinzer wants more and the Cubs have laid a framework to get something done if Furcal decides he wants to play in Chicago.

Sounds like Hendry is pretty confident that Furcal is coming to the Cubs.

[nilodnayr]

Oh well, any other viable, impact RF options (assuming the Cubs can't/won't sign Giles)?

 

Define "impact". It's not a popular view on this board, but the Cubs don't necessarily need another .900+ OPS guy. They need a much, much better top of the batting order and a guy who can be slightly above NL average for the #5 spot in the batting order (2005 average: .271/.340/.454/.794).

 

It would be strongly preferable if that guy hit from the left hand batter's box.

 

If Wilkerson got back to his pre-2005 form, he'd be a good choice. So would Bradley, if he'd act like somebody.

 

Why do people quote average production? This isnt hockey or basketball...do you know what average gets you in this league? A longer offseason, thats what it gets you.

[JeffH]

I quote it because if you're way above average in some areas, average is acceptable.

 

You want to avoid being grossly below average in any area, like giving Corey Patterson, Neifi Perez, and Jose Macias 676 plate appearances in the 1-2 spots of your batting order.

 

If the Cubs had had some guys that, oh, I don't know - got on base? - in those spots, the LF situation wouldn't have been nearly as big a problem as it was.

[E.J.]

Details from Chippers restructured contract from Rotoworld:

 

Chipper Jones - 3B - Braves

 

 

Braves agreed to terms with third baseman Chipper Jones on a three-year, $37 million contract with a club option for 2009.

The restructured deal, which came to light a couple of weeks ago, could save the Braves as much as $15 million over three years. Jones gets a $4 million signing bonus in January and $11 million in each of the next three seasons. The contract contains a 2009 team option at $8 million that would become guaranteed if he has 450 plate appearances the previous year and escalators that could raise his 2009 salary to $11 million. Jones had been due to make $17 million next season and had easily reachable options that would have guaranteed him $15 million in each 2007 and 2008. Dec. 2 - 7:26 pm et

[Cubzfan64]

I have a true respect for a player who does something unselfish like this!! If I were a Braves fan, I'd want to give him a standing ovation every at bat!

 

It's not very often in this day and age of sports to hear of a "star" quality player thinking of an organization and something other than just himself. I won't be shocked if Furcal ends up back with the Braves - disappointed if it happens, but not surprised in the least.

 

Chipper Jones = class act