2005-06 College Basketball Thread

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That's because they've sustained the losses they have. Pomeroy's rankings has UConn #1 over the last 5 games, and Wisconsin #101 over their last 5 games. I really don't know how you can say that the polls with all their what-have-you-done-for-me-lateliness, bias towards longtime powers, and general human element are more reliable though.

 

Because I don't trust a machine that uses mathematical formulas to determine a game that is based completely on human actions. RPI doesn't take into account margin of victory or any of that.

 

Again, RPI is not flawless. That still doesn't mean it's not more effective than other methods.

 

 

If a team loses on a last second miracle full court shot to the number 1 team in the country, it counts the same as losing to the worst team in the country by 50. Where as a human would take that into account, and rank accordingly.

 

That's incorrect.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

From College RPI.com

 

The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider things like margin of victory, only whether or not a team won and where the game was played.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

From College RPI.com

 

The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider things like margin of victory, only whether or not a team won and where the game was played.

 

But it most certainly considers the opponents, which is a huge part(the most important part actually) of the example you provided.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Again, RPI is not flawless. That still doesn't mean it's not more effective than other methods.

 

I look at it this way - if RPI was more effective than the polls, then that's how teams would be ranked. That's what would be in the papers and all over ESPN.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Again, RPI is not flawless. That still doesn't mean it's not more effective than other methods.

 

I look at it this way - if RPI was more effective than the polls, then that's how teams would be ranked. That's what would be in the papers and all over ESPN.

 

The tournament selection committee uses RPI. It doesn't use the polls.

 

EDIT: Because ESPN shows AVG/HR/RBI for all the players in their graphics during games, does that make it more effective than AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, or a number of other stats?

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

The tournament selection committee uses RPI. It doesn't use the polls.

 

RPI is probably one of the smallest of the factors considered when selecting teams. They look at how you've done over your last ten games, quality wins, quality losses, etc.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The tournament selection committee uses RPI. It doesn't use the polls.

 

EDIT: Because ESPN shows AVG/HR/RBI for all the players in their graphics during games, does that make it more effective than AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, or a number of other stats?

 

RPI is probably one of the smallest of the factors considered when selecting teams. They look at how you've done over your last ten games, quality wins, quality losses, etc.

 

And not the polls. That's what we were talking about.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

EDIT: Because ESPN shows AVG/HR/RBI for all the players in their graphics during games, does that make it more effective than AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, or a number of other stats?

 

Apples and oranges. Statistics are not the same thing as rankings. A lot of guys had more wins than Roger Clemens last year, but how many would you rank ahead of him as being a better pitcher?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

EDIT: Because ESPN shows AVG/HR/RBI for all the players in their graphics during games, does that make it more effective than AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, or a number of other stats?

 

Apples and oranges. Statistics are not the same thing as rankings. A lot of guys had more wins than Roger Clemens last year, but how many would you rank ahead of him as being a better pitcher?

 

They most certainly are the same. You're proving my point for me. How many times do you see the media point to wins as an evaluator, compared to WHIP for example? What's popular isn't necessarily what's right.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

And not the polls. That's what we were talking about.

 

So because they use it to determine the field, that makes it more accurate? That would mean that a team's last ten games should determine their ranking. And it also should mean that Wisconsin is the 8th best team in the country.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

They most certainly are the same. You're proving my point for me. How many times do you see the media point to wins as an evaluator, compared to WHIP for example? What's popular isn't necessarily what's right.

 

Statistics are the same as rankings? Wow, my dictionary must be way off.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And not the polls. That's what we were talking about.

 

So because they use it to determine the field, that makes it more accurate? That would mean that a team's last ten games should determine their ranking. And it also should mean that Wisconsin is the 8th best team in the country.

 

I've already gone over why it's more accurate. Your stance on the issue is changing with every post. First the polls are better because they're widely used, then RPI isn't worthwhile because it's a small factor considered(compared to not at all with the polls). Now being used to select the tourney makes it less valid somehow?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

They most certainly are the same. You're proving my point for me. How many times do you see the media point to wins as an evaluator, compared to WHIP for example? What's popular isn't necessarily what's right.

 

Statistics are the same as rankings? Wow, my dictionary must be way off.

 

They're both used for exactly the same thing, arguing exact definitions is semantics beyond the point. In the example, both are used to determine the worth of the player or team.

[Flames24Rulz]

And not the polls. That's what we were talking about.

 

So because they use it to determine the field, that makes it more accurate? That would mean that a team's last ten games should determine their ranking. And it also should mean that Wisconsin is the 8th best team in the country.

 

it doesn't necessarily mean they are the 8th best team in the country...they've just had the combination of home wins, road wins (which increases the RPI more than home wins), and SOS to go their way to get them 8th in the RPI.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I've already gone over why it's more accurate. Your stance on the issue is changing with every post. First the polls are better because they're widely used, then RPI isn't worthwhile because it's a small factor considered(compared to not at all with the polls). Now being used to select the tourney makes it less valid somehow?

 

Okay, now you're just putting words in my mouth. One question, do you think the BCS is a fair system? Cause if you do, then there's no point even going on in this.

[Flames24Rulz]

I've already gone over why it's more accurate. Your stance on the issue is changing with every post. First the polls are better because they're widely used, then RPI isn't worthwhile because it's a small factor considered(compared to not at all with the polls). Now being used to select the tourney makes it less valid somehow?

 

Okay, now you're just putting words in my mouth. One question, do you think the BCS is a fair system? Cause if you do, then there's no point even going on in this.

 

the BCS isn't a fair system, but the RPI is fair to the mid-major teams unlike the polls. The MVC has 4 teams around the top 25 in the RPI rankings, however the pollsters only have 1 MVC team in the top 25. The pollsters won't put mid-majors in the top 25...look at UNI. They are 18-3 and they play in the 5th highest conference in the country yet this week was the 1st time they made the top 25 for the whole season. I am glad that the RPI is a much bigger component for the selection committee then the pollsters.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Of course right when I say Wisconsin isn't a top ten team, they happen to be beating up on the #6 ranked team. Still early though.

[bukie]

I've already gone over why it's more accurate. Your stance on the issue is changing with every post. First the polls are better because they're widely used, then RPI isn't worthwhile because it's a small factor considered(compared to not at all with the polls). Now being used to select the tourney makes it less valid somehow?

 

Okay, now you're just putting words in my mouth. One question, do you think the BCS is a fair system? Cause if you do, then there's no point even going on in this.

 

It's more fair than using human polls.

 

At least the RPI is a factor in selection of tournament teams. The polls are not.

 

Personally, I like the rankings organized by offensive/defensive efficiency, as Ken Pomeroy has been doing this year: http://www.kenpom.com/stats.php?y=2006&s=19

 

By that metric, it certainly appears that 1-7 the Big Ten is best, but overall it's hard to argue that the Big East is better overall at this time. Maybe if Indiana beats Connecticut there's a better argument since it's been difficult for every other Big Ten team to win on the road against one of the 7 good teams.

[Derwood]

how did georgeton only score 66 points at DePaul? they had 20 in the first 5 minutes!

[SouthSideRyan]

how did georgeton only score 66 points at DePaul? they had 20 in the first 5 minutes!

 

Mercy Rule?

[Derwood]

how did georgeton only score 66 points at DePaul? they had 20 in the first 5 minutes!

 

Mercy Rule?

 

wouldn't that rule prevent depaul from playing at all this season?

[snoodmonger]

NCAA has released its first RPI standings.

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/rpi1.html

[Andy]

Over/Under for how many points ND loses by to WV tonight: 4.

[reggiemiller rules]

Over/Under for how many points ND loses by to WV tonight: 4.

 

I say WV by 13.

[Andy]

Over/Under for how many points ND loses by to WV tonight: 4.

 

I say WV by 13.

You would think. But ND has a habit of playing just well enough to lose by single digits in the conference this year. The only question tonight is what big possession will Notre Dame screw up to lose the game in the closing seconds.