Should we trade Aramis Ramirez?

[TB_11]

Welcome to the forum jmajew.

 

If we wanted to upgrade our defense, I don't think having Manny in left and Nomar at third would be the answer. Our defense could use some improvement no doubt, but I think improving our offense (specifically at the outfield positions) should be the focus of this offseason.

[Warpticon]

Welcome to the forum jmajew.

 

If we wanted to upgrade our defense, I don't think having Manny in left and Nomar at third would be the answer. Our defense could use some improvement no doubt, but I think improving our offense (specifically at the outfield positions) should be the focus of this offseason.

 

Not to mention that having Manny in left and Nomar at third would actually make the defense considerably worse.

[jmajew]

The ideal situation for the Cubs is to sign Brian Giles. He solves the outfield problem. He is good defensively and he plays the game the right way. Runs everything out, takes out the second baseman, and will just do anything to win. It however, looks, like he is going to St. Louis. The ohter outfielders available are nothing special. Juan Encarnacion is good defensively but strikes out too much, Reggie Sanders will probably wind up back in St. Louis, Jacque Jones is nothing special, Damon is not worth the 10 million a year he will probably get.

 

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Trading Ramirez is not the ideal situation but the Cubs have to look into it. I don't want it to be another Kerry Wood situation. The Cubs were offered Mark Texiera a few years ago and then in separate trade Alfonso Soriano. Cubs fans have a tendency to hype up players too much and think they are better than they actually are. I don't want the Cubs to pass up on a deal for Aram that coudl help the team...I obviously don't know what this deal would be but i'm sure one is out there.

 

All i know is the cubs need to shake things up. The team doesn't seem to have any heart. I watch them play and it seems like they are playing for the money. I want players who play for the love of the game and play hard. I think part of that problem is with Dusty Baker. I get the feeling watching him that his goal isn't to win the World Series. I feel like he just wants to make his 4 million a year and go home. The cubs need some fire.

 

I'm also dissappointed in the fact that the Cubs resigned Rothschild. The rumors i've heard say that the reason Hendry resigned him is because once Baker's contract is up he will become our new manager. That is dissappointing to here. I'd like to have someone like Mark Grace manager or someone with his passion for the game.

[TB_11]

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Has there been a lot of talk of moving Walker to left field? His defense is below average (to be nice) at second, I don't think it would be anything better than poor in left.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Has there been a lot of talk of moving Walker to left field? His defense is below average (to be nice) at second, I don't think it would be anything better than poor in left.

 

Walker played LF for one game, and it was comedic gold. I don't think it can be realistically considered.

[littleburr24]

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Has there been a lot of talk of moving Walker to left field? His defense is below average (to be nice) at second, I don't think it would be anything better than poor in left.

 

Walker played LF for one game, and it was comedic gold. I don't think it can be realistically considered.

 

He only saw one play correct? If he had more, I only remember the routine fly he had a little trouble with.

[USSoccer]

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Has there been a lot of talk of moving Walker to left field? His defense is below average (to be nice) at second, I don't think it would be anything better than poor in left.

 

Walker played LF for one game, and it was comedic gold. I don't think it can be realistically considered.

 

He only saw one play correct? If he had more, I only remember the routine fly he had a little trouble with.

 

A little trouble? He ran around it a circle and had to dive for the ball. It was a pop fly. Walker in LF is not a good idea.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

"Should we trade Aramis Ramirez?"

 

No!

[jmajew]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

[USSoccer]

The ideal situation for the Cubs is to sign Brian Giles. He solves the outfield problem. He is good defensively and he plays the game the right way. Runs everything out, takes out the second baseman, and will just do anything to win. It however, looks, like he is going to St. Louis. The ohter outfielders available are nothing special. Juan Encarnacion is good defensively but strikes out too much, Reggie Sanders will probably wind up back in St. Louis, Jacque Jones is nothing special, Damon is not worth the 10 million a year he will probably get.

 

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Trading Ramirez is not the ideal situation but the Cubs have to look into it. I don't want it to be another Kerry Wood situation. The Cubs were offered Mark Texiera a few years ago and then in separate trade Alfonso Soriano. Cubs fans have a tendency to hype up players too much and think they are better than they actually are. I don't want the Cubs to pass up on a deal for Aram that coudl help the team...I obviously don't know what this deal would be but i'm sure one is out there.

All i know is the cubs need to shake things up. The team doesn't seem to have any heart. I watch them play and it seems like they are playing for the money. I want players who play for the love of the game and play hard. I think part of that problem is with Dusty Baker. I get the feeling watching him that his goal isn't to win the World Series. I feel like he just wants to make his 4 million a year and go home. The cubs need some fire.

 

I'm also dissappointed in the fact that the Cubs resigned Rothschild. The rumors i've heard say that the reason Hendry resigned him is because once Baker's contract is up he will become our new manager. That is dissappointing to here. I'd like to have someone like Mark Grace manager or someone with his passion for the game.

 

 

What evidence can you offer that the Cubs don't have heart? You can't make decisions onh who to have based on guys who appear to "play the game the right way" or "have passion for the game". Those terms mean pretty much nothing. I guarantee if the Cubs in 2005 had won the division, no one would have questioned their heart, hustle, et al. Those things get nitpicked when teams struggle.

 

People point to Aramis not always running hard to 1B on easy grounders. He was playing with a bad hamstring, and tried to play through it, and actually got hurt trying to hustle down the line so that he didn't hit into a double play. One could argue that Aramis loafing on that play might have been a better thing for the Cubs.

 

The Cubs don't necessarily need a total shakeup. They need to make good signings to improve the team's weaknesses, which weren't heart or hustle, but OBP. I agree with signing Giles.

 

Also, I've never heard of any deal on the table that was Wood for Texieria. Wood for Soriano would have been a bad deal. Too many people get hung up on wins and losses for pitchers. up until this past, dissapointing year for Wood, he was statistcally one of the best pitchers in the game. With any run support, he would have had a nice, gaudy win total, and thus no one would ever call him overrated. Calling him injury prone is fair game, but he's not reallly overrated.

[USSoccer]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

[littleburr24]

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Has there been a lot of talk of moving Walker to left field? His defense is below average (to be nice) at second, I don't think it would be anything better than poor in left.

 

Walker played LF for one game, and it was comedic gold. I don't think it can be realistically considered.

 

He only saw one play correct? If he had more, I only remember the routine fly he had a little trouble with.

 

A little trouble? He ran around it a circle and had to dive for the ball. It was a pop fly. Walker in LF is not a good idea.

 

I was just kidding with "a little", but it was definitely a fun play to watch. :lol:

 

But yeah, Walker should not go anywhere near left field.

[RockTheIvy]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

 

Plus Twalk showed us his noodle arm at 2B. How many outfield assists would he have? We might have to use the double cut-off man from the Tom Emanski commercials.

[USSoccer]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

 

Plus Twalk showed us his noodle arm at 2B. How many outfield assists would he have? We might have to use the double cut-off man from the Tom Emanski commercials.

 

You mean the Johnny Damon "I once had a guy tag and score from second base on my arm" cutoff man plan? :D

[USSoccer]

jmajew,

 

I don't mean to be so hard you you in your first posts; I just argue pretty intensely. It's a side effect from the college I went to. I hope you don't take it personally.

[RockTheIvy]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

 

Plus Twalk showed us his noodle arm at 2B. How many outfield assists would he have? We might have to use the double cut-off man from the Tom Emanski commercials.

 

You mean the Johnny Damon "I once had a guy tag and score from second base on my arm" cutoff man plan? :D

 

Hell, let's get Damon for CF, and Walker for RF! They could have contests on who could reach the infield on a fly!

[USSoccer]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

 

Plus Twalk showed us his noodle arm at 2B. How many outfield assists would he have? We might have to use the double cut-off man from the Tom Emanski commercials.

 

You mean the Johnny Damon "I once had a guy tag and score from second base on my arm" cutoff man plan? :D

 

Hell, let's get Damon for CF, and Walker for RF! They could have contests on who could reach the infield on a fly!

 

We could even trade for Pierre, and have to worst armed OF in history. We'd almost have to play with the softball 4th OF just to be a roving cutoff man, and our pitchers would have PC's in the 160's just to avoid guys making contact with the ball.

[RockTheIvy]

Just give the guy some time to practice out there he may get the hang of it. He has decent speed so he can cover some ground. He may not be great defensively but I don't see how he can be worse than Alou was when we had him.

 

Alou is older and had a shattered leg at one point in his life. Guys are 2B for a reason, and it's just not that simple to switch to the OF. Walker's range and glove are suspect at 2B; I can't even fathom how much his defense would cost us. Singles would be doubles, and he would likely not get to many balls that other OF's would normally get to.

 

Also, the Cubs have a really promising LF that makes the league minimum that hit well over .300 in 150 major league AB's. I think he'd be the best LF option. :D

 

Plus Twalk showed us his noodle arm at 2B. How many outfield assists would he have? We might have to use the double cut-off man from the Tom Emanski commercials.

 

You mean the Johnny Damon "I once had a guy tag and score from second base on my arm" cutoff man plan? :D

 

Hell, let's get Damon for CF, and Walker for RF! They could have contests on who could reach the infield on a fly!

 

We could even trade for Pierre, and have to worst armed OF in history. We'd almost have to play with the softball 4th OF just to be a roving cutoff man, and our pitchers would have PC's in the 160's just to avoid guys making contact with the ball.

 

ShortCF?! Ladies and gentlemen we have a winnAr!

[jmajew]

I think Murton can play left or Right it doesn't matter. No matter what we need to solve Center and the other corner outfield spot. I'm just throwing out options I'm sure Hendry is debating.

 

When I talk about heart and hustle I'm talking about running the bases right. Not missing signs and all that other stuff. If you love the game you learn that kind of stuff. The more you love the game the more you are willing to learn the little things which seem so trivial. Those are the things that win you games.

 

I hate saying this but the White sox were great at the little things. The took great routes to balls, knew how to bunt (eventhough the struggled abit there in teh postseason), and they take hustle on every play. That is the kind of ball club i like. Yes there pitchign was great but a good portion of that was because their defens was so god damn good.

 

Don't worry about Ussoccer...I love arguing. Even if I'm wrong i'll argue just because I love trying to convince people of what i think.

[polosprt009]

Well, I've been lurking through this thread since it started and I have to say that Jeff (jmajew) puts up some solid ideas for revamping the Cubs team, but at the same time most of you (USSoccer in particular) puts up some great arguments to his suggestions as well. In my opinion most of Jeff's ideas "could" work, but the changes wouldn't please the fans much. They are very Bakeresque for the most part. It would be taking a huge unnecessary gamble to trade away some of our best players just to help out our defense. I don't think trading Aramis would be the greatest of ideas because truly I still think the best is yet to come with him.

 

As for players such as Todd Walker playing in LF or anywhere in the OF for that matter, I would hate to see that. I always cringe when I see a baseball player playing an unnatural position on defense. Look at how scary it was watching Nomar play 3rd in the beginning. He made bad throws and was coughin up errors for a little while. It was hard to watch and very frustrating. While the free agent market isn't really providing the cream of the crop for what we're needing on defense, our farm system could easily be tapped into to test the waters in positions that need to be filled.

 

While who's going to be starting in our OF on opening day remains a huge question mark at the moment, I think it would be ridiculous not to see Murton play a starting OF role. Other than that, we need two spots to fill. Nomar could possibly be thrown out there (which could cause major uncomfort watching him play another unfamiliar position), hairston, pie, and patterson (::cringing::). That is just with what we got right now. I'm not the best at coming up with trade and free agent ideas, so I'll leave that up to you all to come up with.

 

..My two cents

[SouthSideRyan]

I bet the Royals players loved the game and weren't just playing for the contract. In fact they were playing for their lives in the big leagues. And yet they were the worst team in baseball.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The ideal situation for the Cubs is to sign Brian Giles. He solves the outfield problem. He is good defensively and he plays the game the right way. Runs everything out, takes out the second baseman, and will just do anything to win. It however, looks, like he is going to St. Louis. The ohter outfielders available are nothing special. Juan Encarnacion is good defensively but strikes out too much, Reggie Sanders will probably wind up back in St. Louis, Jacque Jones is nothing special, Damon is not worth the 10 million a year he will probably get.

 

The problem is...unless the Cubs grossly overpays him, Brian ain't coming to Chicago, move on.

 

One possibility is sign Furcal at short, put cedeno at second and play Walker in left field. Then sign Lofton, trade for Pierre, or play patterson, pie, or hairston in center. This would be a very solid team. The only problem would be walker would be a weak 5 hitter. He may be better at 3 so he can get on base infront of the the big guns Lee and Ramirez.

 

Up to the part where you say "play Walker in left field" did you make sense. Have you seen Todd Hundley play LF, Walker would be in the same catergory. So no thank you. Trad Walker (if you don't want to keep him) but just don't put him in the OF, where he would cause more harm then anything.

 

Trading Ramirez is not the ideal situation but the Cubs have to look into it. I don't want it to be another Kerry Wood situation. The Cubs were offered Mark Texiera a few years ago and then in separate trade Alfonso Soriano. Cubs fans have a tendency to hype up players too much and think they are better than they actually are. I don't want the Cubs to pass up on a deal for Aram that coudl help the team...I obviously don't know what this deal would be but i'm sure one is out there.

 

First: I don't WHO you got the info about the Cubs were offer Mark Teixeria (Sullivan and/or Roger are the prime suspects), but I can promise....Texas never OFFICALLY made THAT Tex for Wood offer. Nor should they had made the offer. Second: ARam has proven he is worth his contract, thus it WOODN'T ( :lol: ) be another Kerry situation. All Kerry is good for, is memories of the 20 K game. I'm not opposed to trading Aram, but not Manny(no defense) or Torii Hunter(no offense). Arod, Pujols, Vlad, Ichiro, someone who ACTUAL play both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, would suffice. And seeing as those are not available, I would said NO to any Ramirez deal.

 

 

All i know is the cubs need to shake things up. The team doesn't seem to have any heart. I watch them play and it seems like they are playing for the money. I want players who play for the love of the game and play hard. I think part of that problem is with Dusty Baker. I get the feeling watching him that his goal isn't to win the World Series. I feel like he just wants to make his 4 million a year and go home. The cubs need some fire.

 

You're not the only one who feels a shake up is necessary. And you're not the only one who wants Baker gone. But to make up ridiculous trade options for Ramirez, isn't going to solve the Cubs problems.

 

 

I'm also dissappointed in the fact that the Cubs resigned Rothschild. The rumors i've heard say that the reason Hendry resigned him is because once Baker's contract is up he will become our new manager. That is dissappointing to here. I'd like to have someone like Mark Grace manager or someone with his passion for the game.

 

Again, you're not the only person that dispised the re-signing of Rothschild. On Mark Grace, he seems to full of himself, a Dusty Baker esque type manager? I'd stay away from Grace.

[badger1679666666]

All Kerry is good for, is memories of the 20 K game.

 

Or his 2001 season where he pitched nearly 200 innings with a 12-6 record that should have been more like 16-4 with any run support.

 

Or his 2002 season where he pitched over 200 innings and should have been a 15 game winner with any run support.

 

Or his 2003 season where he pitched over 200 innings and should have been a 15 game winner with any run support.

 

Or the 2003 NLDS where he owned Atlanta.

 

As for the 2003 NLCS, Dusty riding him the whole year (as he did prior) with two of the highest pc/game may have had an effect on the burnout - but he certainly didn't pitch his best there i'll give you that.

 

OR the fact that he has some of the filthiest stuff in the majors.

 

But I guess we can go on saying he worthless other than 20 K's in 1998. It makes more sense.

[Careless]

BTW, you know that big button three spots down from the 'L' key? Use it, please.

???

You have a button below your alt key?

[Bgbird68]

All Kerry is good for, is memories of the 20 K game.

 

Or his 2001 season where he pitched nearly 200 innings with a 12-6 record that should have been more like 16-4 with any run support.

 

Or his 2002 season where he pitched over 200 innings and should have been a 15 game winner with any run support.

 

Or his 2003 season where he pitched over 200 innings and should have been a 15 game winner with any run support.

 

Or the 2003 NLDS where he owned Atlanta.

 

As for the 2003 NLCS, Dusty riding him the whole year (as he did prior) with two of the highest pc/game may have had an effect on the burnout - but he certainly didn't pitch his best there i'll give you that.

 

OR the fact that he has some of the filthiest stuff in the majors.

 

But I guess we can go on saying he worthless other than 20 K's in 1998. It makes more sense.

 

Here's the problem with that. 2001 was 4 years ago, 2002 was 3 years ago and 2003 was 2 years ago. How about 2004 and 2005? Wait, I remember.....he was injured. But fear not, Kerry is on pace to be ready to go this year. Ever heard that one before?

 

The 2003 playoffs are long gone........