Keep Your Eyes/Ears on Pat Gillick Starting This Week

[SouthSideRyan]

IMO opinion Abreu is a perfect fit. I wouldn't mind Burrell as long as he could play RF.

 

How about:

Baldelli to Philly

 

Hill, Mitre and Wellemeyer to TB

 

Abreu to Cubs (we pick up all his salary

 

Swap out Mitre or Wellemeyer with a better prospect and I could see it. Most of these proposals in this thread look ridiculous.

[MPrior]

It seems to me that people are ignoring what Philly actually wants. So far, only one or two of the deals have involved sending a pitcher to Philly - and that's exactly what they need; they're relatively set in terms of position players. I'm too uninformed to really come up with a good trade option, but I think Philly would probably like a guy like Williams - and Mitre would be a good match in that park too. They might want more proven players, though.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

[CuseCubFan69]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

 

What do you do for CF then Don?

[USSoccer]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

 

Giving up Pie for Abreu, who's leaving his prime, wouldn't be sound. I'd try some other avenue short of giving him up.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

 

Giving up Pie for Abreu, who's leaving his prime, wouldn't be sound. I'd try some other avenue short of giving him up.

 

I agree. There's a difference in the comparison to the Choi-Lee trade. Lee was 28 when we acquired him, Abreu will be 32.

[TheDude]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

Change Pie to another prospect. IMO, the only three position prospects with any chance of playing for the Cubs in the next two years are Pie, Murton, and Cedeno [edit] - so the Cubs should keep all 3 IMO[/edit].

 

Do the Cubs have any 3B prospects worth their salt? Ramirez isn't going anywhere outside of Chicago and the Phillies may be looking for a 3B that might be MLB ready in the next couple years.

[USSoccer]

Realistic trade: Jerome Williams, Roberto Novoa and Felix Pie for Bobby Abreu. Philly gets the #4 starter they need, middle relief depth which they need, and our best prospect. Two years down the road or so, they could be fielding an outfield of Michaels, Pie and Victorino, which could be awesome. They also get salary relief right now, helping to land a free agent starting pitcher, and have the money to replace Billy Wagner, who will likely leave.

 

From the Cubs' standpoint, you give up a nice, young starter in Williams, but who will likely be replaced by a veteran free agent signee; Novoa, who is not a major piece of the puzzle (and not as highly thought of by the Cubs as Michael Wuertz); and Pie, whose upside is where Abreu is already at. Like the Choi for Lee trade, you're trading future potential (Pie) for immediate results (Abreu), in this case the disparity being great enough that you must include Williams, too.

 

I think it is a fair trade from both team's perspective.

Change Pie to another prospect. IMO, the only three position prospects with any chance of playing for the Cubs in the next two years are Pie, Murton, and Cedeno [edit] - so the Cubs should keep all 3 IMO[/edit].

 

Do the Cubs have any 3B prospects worth their salt? Ramirez isn't going anywhere outside of Chicago and the Phillies may be looking for a 3B that might be MLB ready in the next couple years.

 

Scott Moore, but he's not a top prospect. He should be used as trade bait this winter, though

[snoodmonger]

Does Dope have any value anymore?

How about Sing? Harvey?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Does Dope have any value anymore?

How about Sing? Harvey?

 

Harvey may have some value, but he's at least 2-3 years from being ready, so teams looking for immediate help won't look at him. Dopirak has value, but not to the Phillies as Ryan Howard is the firstbaseman of the future there.

[CubfaninCA]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

 

get ready to defend yourself.

[CubfaninCA]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

 

get ready to defend yourself.

 

Nah. I've seen a lot of posters make similar assessments of late.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

 

get ready to defend yourself.

 

Nah. I've seen a lot of posters make similar assessments of late.

 

you're right, IMO. i like following our farm system, but we really don't have any can't miss prospects. pie is supposedly our best, and he really doesn't impress me, but i'm not a huge fan of scout potential assessments.

 

we did have a very good farm system several year ago. now we're pretty much middle of the pack.

[CubsWin]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

 

get ready to defend yourself.

 

Nah. I've seen a lot of posters make similar assessments of late.

Well, I'll agree it is not great, especially after producing major league caliber players like Murton and Cedeno just last season. It is thin at top end talent like Pie and Pawelek and maybe Guzman, but it has depth with other quality players that have a shot like EPatt, Harvey, Dopirak, Pinto, Marshall, Marmol, Nolasco, Gallagher and many others.

 

They'll probably rank in the middle of the pack after Murton and Cedeno joined the big club this season. If middle of the pack equals "suks" to you. That's fine. To me, this is the bottom part of their cycle. Their system has been fairly productive of late (Choi, B. Hill, Prior, Zambrano, Harris, Dubois, R. Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Pie) and needs to restock itself over the next couple of years. They've done it before. They can do it again.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Since the Cubs farm system pretty much suks, they'll have a difficult time getting Abreu unless they're willing to give up Pie. Williams will probably have to go to Philly too. Can also see Philly insisting on a 3b, so perhaps Walker is dealt to another team and they send Philly a 3b. However, there may not be many bidders for Abreu. Can't see Philly dealing w/ NYM and the Yankees don't need a RF. Boston may make a nice offer though. Altogether, imo Philly will demand a huge price tag. Abreu >> Giles tho.

 

get ready to defend yourself.

 

Nah. I've seen a lot of posters make similar assessments of late.

Well, I'll agree it is not great, especially after producing major league caliber players like Murton and Cedeno just last season. It is thin at top end talent like Pie and Pawelek and maybe Guzman, but it has depth with other quality players that have a shot like EPatt, Harvey, Dopirak, Pinto, Marshall, Marmol, Nolasco, Gallagher and many others.

 

They'll probably rank in the middle of the pack after Murton and Cedeno joined the big club this season. If middle of the pack equals "suks" to you. That's fine. To me, this is the bottom part of their cycle. Their system has been fairly productive of late (Choi, B. Hill, Prior, Zambrano, Harris, Dubois, R. Hill, Murton, Cedeno, Pie) and needs to restock itself over the next couple of years. They've done it before. They can do it again.

 

Prior and Murton weren't products of our farm system.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

I think his point with Prior is he was the most major league ready SP prospect to come out of college in the last 50 yrs if not ever.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

I think his point with Prior is he was the most major league ready SP prospect to come out of college in the last 50 yrs if not ever.

 

Yeah, but you can't just take away from the system because they were smart enough to draft him, or smart enough to trade for Murton. If Murton doesn't count, then we should be allowed to count Brendan Harris, Dontrelle Willis, etc.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

What?! He spent less than a season in the minors. All he did was go through the paces. He was MLB ready out of college. I guess those 9 games in the minors "developed" him.

 

Murton spent little over 1 season in our system to get to the major league club.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

I think his point with Prior is he was the most major league ready SP prospect to come out of college in the last 50 yrs if not ever.

 

Yeah, but you can't just take away from the system because they were smart enough to draft him, or smart enough to trade for Murton. If Murton doesn't count, then we should be allowed to count Brendan Harris, Dontrelle Willis, etc.

 

well lets just count everyone that ever played 1 game in our system as "being developed by our system."

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

What?! He spent less than a season in the minors. All he did was go through the paces. He was MLB ready out of college. I guess those 9 games in the minors "developed" him.

 

Murton spent little over 1 season in our system to get to the major league club.

 

So the Cubs get no credit for targeting players that need less development?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

I think his point with Prior is he was the most major league ready SP prospect to come out of college in the last 50 yrs if not ever.

 

Yeah, but you can't just take away from the system because they were smart enough to draft him, or smart enough to trade for Murton. If Murton doesn't count, then we should be allowed to count Brendan Harris, Dontrelle Willis, etc.

 

well lets just count everyone that ever played 1 game in our system as "being developed by our system."

 

No, but Willis spent more time in our system than Florida's before he was ready. I think if someone spends the majority of their development in the Cubs system, then they should be considered a Cubs product.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

What?! He spent less than a season in the minors. All he did was go through the paces. He was MLB ready out of college. I guess those 9 games in the minors "developed" him.

 

Murton spent little over 1 season in our system to get to the major league club.

 

So the Cubs get no credit for targeting players that need less development?

 

no, they get credit. the scouts get a nice pat on the back. good job. but they didn't "develop" that talent. they just took what was already there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Prior most certainly is. Murton spent about the same time in each of the two systems(including his MLB time), and he had his greatest success in our system too.

 

What?! He spent less than a season in the minors. All he did was go through the paces. He was MLB ready out of college. I guess those 9 games in the minors "developed" him.

 

Murton spent little over 1 season in our system to get to the major league club.

 

So the Cubs get no credit for targeting players that need less development?

 

no, they get credit. the scouts get a nice pat on the back. good job. but they didn't "develop" that talent. they just took what was already there.

 

Identifying and developing talent are part of the system. In evaluating the system as a whole, like was being done in the original post, why wouldn't you include Murton and Prior?