Akron Beacon Journal on Todd Walker

[USSoccer]

No way we get Sizemore for Walker . Reports out of Ohio had the Indians calling the Phillies and Boston looking for Thome or Ramirez, the Indians backed away because in order for either team to trade Thome or Ramirez while picking up some of the check they wanted Sizemore and prospects or Sizemore and Lee.

 

wow. :shock:

 

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

as good as sizemore is, some of that is a function of pitchers not knowing your hole(s). his ceiling will never touch manny's numbers.

 

Depending on how much salary Boston was picking up, maybe they are right to not take it.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

how about we keep the cheap, productive 2b who wants to play here?

 

yeah, but the rumors seem to point towards walker being dished off. we have a few holes to fill and FA isn't going to cover it.

 

so we're trading walker to open up another hole?

 

no, supposedly cedeno is filling the 2B hole.

 

i don't agree with it, but that seems to be the way Hendry is headed. if cedeno flops, we will indeed have a hole at 2b. at least we'll have neifi. :roll:

 

hendry is hellbent on furcal, which means we'll probably need to get our other holes filled via trade. the likelihood of us getting any two of giles, burnett, furcal is pretty slim.

 

i want marcus giles. :cry:

[Balsa]

Am I the only one who'd rather have Hairston than Neifi?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Am I the only one who'd rather have Hairston than Neifi?

 

Nope. As a second baseman Hairston is an average defender, and he's not an abomination at the plate.

[NorthsideAvenger]

No way we get Sizemore for Walker . Reports out of Ohio had the Indians calling the Phillies and Boston looking for Thome or Ramirez, the Indians backed away because in order for either team to trade Thome or Ramirez while picking up some of the check they wanted Sizemore and prospects or Sizemore and Lee.

 

wow. :shock:

 

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

as good as sizemore is, some of that is a function of pitchers not knowing your hole(s). his ceiling will never touch manny's numbers.

 

How is the Indians stupid for not trading a young, cheap and PRODUCTIVE CF (an all-around player to boot) for an expensive, malcontent, awesome hitter? On talent, Ramirez would be great to trade for, but the Indians are NOT ready to commit that much money into one player (regardless of who the player is).

 

I don't understand why the hate on Sizemore, Meat? This kid is going to win GG, and continue to hit around .300/.360 with 25-30 SB, and 20-25 homeruns. I promise a YOUNG valuable player like Sizemore (and he is the face of the franchise) is more valuable to Cleveland then Ramirez. Regardless of what you believe Meat, Sizemore AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE, period.

[JeffH]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

[USSoccer]

Am I the only one who'd rather have Hairston than Neifi?

 

Nope. As a second baseman Hairston is an average defender, and he's not an abomination at the plate.

 

I'll echo that. I'd rather have Hairston.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

No way we get Sizemore for Walker . Reports out of Ohio had the Indians calling the Phillies and Boston looking for Thome or Ramirez, the Indians backed away because in order for either team to trade Thome or Ramirez while picking up some of the check they wanted Sizemore and prospects or Sizemore and Lee.

 

wow. :shock:

 

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

as good as sizemore is, some of that is a function of pitchers not knowing your hole(s). his ceiling will never touch manny's numbers.

 

How is the Indians stupid for not trading a young, cheap and PRODUCTIVE CF (an all-around player to boot) for an expensive, malcontent, awesome hitter? On talent, Ramirez would be great to trade for, but the Indians are NOT ready to commit that much money into one player (regardless of who the player is).

 

I don't understand why the hate on Sizemore, Meat? This kid is going to win GG, and continue to hit around .300/.360 with 25-30 SB, and 20-25 homeruns. I promise a YOUNG valuable player like Sizemore (and he is the face of the franchise) is more valuable to Cleveland then Ramirez. Regardless of what you believe Meat, Sizemore AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE, period.

 

When he starts peaking above the break even point for SB/CS, then i'll start desiring his SB skills. Until then he's a detriment to the team by running himself into outs. He's never going to be a master base stealer (personally, i think that aspect is overrated anyways).

 

His OBP is attractive as a leadoff hitter and he plays good defense with an average arm. GG caliber? We'll see. he was solid this past year, that's for sure.

 

But you're telling be you wouldn't take Manny Ramirez's production in LF over Sizemore's? You can stick another high OBP (.350 isn't that high) guy in CF cheaply. Manny's OPS isn't that easily replaceable. Defense is overrated.

 

Can you imagine Hafner and Manny going back to back? I would be astounded if that team didn't make the playoffs for the next three years in a row, much less win a WS.

 

Sizemore may indeed continue hitting well. Manny is a sure thing, and will put up better numbers. The only issue is money, and it is a huge issue. That is what keeps Cleveland off of Manny, not dealing Sizemore. A $40M team needs to be careful with money, but if Millwood came off the books (7M) and Boston paid a decent amount of the contract, it would be affordable.

 

i don't hate sizemore. i'd take him in cubbie blue any day, but Manny Ramirez? come on.

Edited November 6, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[stitchface]

unless he is fleecing someone, hendry shouldn't trade walker. he is exactly the type of player the cubs need to add, not subtract.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

The Tribe doesn't have that luxury. Their payroll isn't going much of anywhere, and they have 11 million dollars in raises guaranteed to players, plus a couple arbitration eligibles and a bunch of renewals that'll get slight increases. They simply can't take on that salary while losing cheap production in Sizemore. They're going to have to cut weight just to try to keep Millwood and Wickman/Howry.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

The Tribe doesn't have that luxury. Their payroll isn't going much of anywhere, and they have 11 million dollars in raises guaranteed to players, plus a couple arbitration eligibles and a bunch of renewals that'll get slight increases. They simply can't take on that salary while losing cheap production in Sizemore. They're going to have to cut weight just to try to keep Millwood and Wickman/Howry.

 

yup. i understand. i just think the deal doesn't go through more b/c of money, not Grady Sizemore.

Edited November 6, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[Joe_Cub]

unless he is fleecing someone, hendry shouldn't trade walker. he is exactly the type of player the cubs need to add, not subtract.

 

I agree. I don't see the point unless we get somebody really good and don't have neifi playing second base!

[stitchface]

this thread is depressing - if we give up walker and hairston to play cedeno and neifi or furcal and neifi, it will really show that hendry doesn't get it. I can live with defense at SS but for goodness sakes, you have to upgrade the offense elsewhere.

[Warpticon]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

[Neuby]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

If Ramirez was offered to the Cubs for Patterson, Williams, Hill, Walker,

and picked up half of Ramirez contract would u do it? As good as Sizemore is Manny Ramirez is HOF that still produces so paying him less than you would have to pay Giles with the amount of holes the Cubs have would be worth it.

[USSoccer]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

If Ramirez was offered to the Cubs for Patterson, Williams, Hill, Walker,

and picked up half of Ramirez contract would u do it? As good as Sizemore is Manny Ramirez is HOF that still produces so paying him less than you would have to pay Giles with the amount of holes the Cubs have would be worth it.

 

Our budget is about twice that of Cleveland's though. That's got to be a major factor in any Manny trade.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I'd rather have Betancourt than Riske.

 

Ditto-ville. Betancourt and Scott Linebrink in San Diego are the two best setup men in baseball. Third time is the charm: we failed with Remlinger and Hawkins in that role. Need to get back on the horse and try again. Walker for Betancourt I'd do handstands if that happens.

[Warpticon]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

 

the offer was multi-year. dude, come on.

[Warpticon]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

 

the offer was multi-year. dude, come on.

 

Really? because

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

doesn't exactly imply a three-year contract. And really, it's pretty much still irrelevant--just because they wanted to spend the money to preserve their pitching staff doesn't mean it's smart to use that same money to replace a 22 year old fine all-around player who's likely to keep improving at league minimum or thereabout, with an expensive, defensively indifferent, aging superstar who costs at least 18-20 times more. He may be better, but I'm pretty sure he won't be pitching 200 innings for the Indians.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

 

the offer was multi-year. dude, come on.

 

Really? because

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

doesn't exactly imply a three-year contract. And really, it's pretty much still irrelevant--just because they wanted to spend the money to preserve their pitching staff doesn't mean it's smart to use that same money to replace a 22 year old fine all-around player who's likely to keep improving at league minimum or thereabout, with an expensive, defensively indifferent, aging superstar who costs at least 18-20 times more. He may be better, but I'm pretty sure he won't be pitching 200 innings for the Indians.

 

yeah, they made a FA a 1 year offer after publicly saying they'd make an offer competitive with any he might receive on the open market. :roll:

 

no, it's not irrelevant. you can spend money any way you wish.

[Warpticon]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

 

the offer was multi-year. dude, come on.

 

Really? because

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

doesn't exactly imply a three-year contract. And really, it's pretty much still irrelevant--just because they wanted to spend the money to preserve their pitching staff doesn't mean it's smart to use that same money to replace a 22 year old fine all-around player who's likely to keep improving at league minimum or thereabout, with an expensive, defensively indifferent, aging superstar who costs at least 18-20 times more. He may be better, but I'm pretty sure he won't be pitching 200 innings for the Indians.

 

yeah, they made a FA a 1 year offer after publicly saying they'd make an offer competitive with any he might receive on the open market. :roll:

 

So, you're getting an attitude because I haven't followed Cleveland/Millwood contract talks to exact detail. And then you say:

 

no, it's not irrelevant. you can spend money any way you wish.

 

...is this a joke? "You can spend money any way you wish?" You start off saying that not trading Sizemore and then some for Manny is "stupid," and turn around saying "you can spend money any way you wish?" How absurd. So to go from young and good to old, great, and several times more expensive without helping the pitching staff, which is what that money would have otherwise gone to, at all. How is this smart? Moreover, how is this SO smart as to render not doing it "stupid," as you claim? Sure, you can spend money however you want, but what does that have to do with anything?

 

I hope you don't apply that princiiple to your everyday life. "Hey, I should upgrade from this Benz to a Rolls--if I refinance the mobile home, I just may be able to swing it."

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

omfg. they wouldn't take ramirez + cash for sizemore and prospects? i'm sorry, sizemore is awesome, but that's just stupid.

 

Ramirez is owed $57 over the next three seasons. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Red Sox pick up half of that (extremely unlikely, but nevertheless...).

 

You think the Indians should give the Red Sox Grady Sizemore for the privilege of paying Manny Ramirez an average of $9.5 per season during his age 34-35-36 seasons?

 

:shock:

 

yup. millwood is leaving. that's $7M off the books right there. 9.5-7=2.5.

 

Um, it's not like they're trading away Millwood, who had three years left on his contract. That's 7 mil off last year's books, but 0 off 2006's, since he's not under contract. Your point is fallacious.

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

And that has what, exactly, to do with '07 and '08?

 

the offer was multi-year. dude, come on.

 

Really? because

 

nope, considering they made the offer to him for over 7M next year. they have the room for his salary.

 

doesn't exactly imply a three-year contract. And really, it's pretty much still irrelevant--just because they wanted to spend the money to preserve their pitching staff doesn't mean it's smart to use that same money to replace a 22 year old fine all-around player who's likely to keep improving at league minimum or thereabout, with an expensive, defensively indifferent, aging superstar who costs at least 18-20 times more. He may be better, but I'm pretty sure he won't be pitching 200 innings for the Indians.

 

yeah, they made a FA a 1 year offer after publicly saying they'd make an offer competitive with any he might receive on the open market. :roll:

 

So, you're getting an attitude because I haven't followed Cleveland/Millwood contract talks to exact detail. And then you say:

 

no, it's not irrelevant. you can spend money any way you wish.

 

...is this a joke? "You can spend money any way you wish?" You start off saying that not trading Sizemore and then some for Manny is "stupid," and turn around saying "you can spend money any way you wish?" How absurd. So to go from young and good to old, great, and several times more expensive without helping the pitching staff, which is what that money would have otherwise gone to, at all. How is this smart? Moreover, how is this SO smart as to render not doing it "stupid," as you claim? Sure, you can spend money however you want, but what does that have to do with anything?

 

I hope you don't apply that princiiple to your everyday life. "Hey, I should upgrade from this Benz to a Rolls--if I refinance the mobile home, I just may be able to swing it."

 

great analogy.